Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment DYS questions. I am totally having an OCD moment.

So I am now going to fill out the application for DYS for DD. Living on a remote island in Alaska, a 3 hour plane ride to the mainland, and with one school on the island only, who told me "sometimes gifted kids just have to be miserable in elementary school", I could seriously use their help, but I am super nervous.

One, her scores on the WISC-IV were VCI 148, PRI 153, and GAI 160, but her FSIQ was only 144 (brought down by processing and wm) but with extended norms, which the tester did not include in her report, it jumps to 153 and the GAI jumps to 180. Do I need to push the tester to use the extended norms or will her regular scores do since VCI, PRI, and GAI are all above the 145 minimum?

She also took the WIAT-III. She is in Kindergartin this year. These are the results I got on that. I do have a full report to submit. Apparently in K age group they don't test on some of the subtests I had read about? Since broad reading wasn't tested?

Composite scores
Oral Language- 149 greater than 99.9%
Written Expression- 133, 99%
Mathmatics- 157, grater than 99.9%
Total Achievement- 150, greater than 99.9%

Do you think she would be admitted with these scores, even though her written expression is only 99%, since her total achievement and Mathematics which davidson looks for are both higher than 145?

So I need a portfolio too? Should I include the paper she wrote for fun when she was 5 called How to Spot A Witch after reading Rold Dahls "The Witches" and other type examples, or should I just submit scores and recomendation letter at this point?

Her recomendation is coming from a good friend who is also our medical provider in our small town and who really gets dd. Her daughter who is in college is also my DD's penpal and her son teaches DD swiming.

Why am I obsessing over this? Gaah. I guess I am just so hopeful they will in someway give me some support that I can't get due to my remote location that I am afraid of rejection because I truely need some help. Thoughts please?????

The plain report will do for the WISC, as long as it includes the VCI and/or GAI.

The WIAT scores are also qualifying.

DD9 got in with one qualifying score (Broad Math) on her Woodcock-Johnson - the others were all below the threshold, and they still accepted her without a portfolio. Her occupational therapist wrote her recommendation.

Just fill out the form and turn it in! The worst thing that could possibly happen is that they will ask you for more information. But I doubt that they will.

Thanks Elizabeth. The WISC report includes VCI and PRI which are both qualifying scores for davidson but she just emailed me the GAI (it's not in the report). I did email her yesterday and asked her to include the GAI in the official report.

It's nice to hear from someone else who has been there. Guess I should just take the next 2 weeks to fill it out and then send it in to see what happens. My OCD self just obsesses about everything. My mom was reminding me today how I have always done that, never thought anything showed enough, she reminded me of the time I didn't want to go to my allergist because I thought he wouldn't think my asthma flare was 'bad enough' and I ended up being hospitalized. It's just totally a part of my personality. GAAH. Working on it. Totally doesn't help that the meds I am on right now (steroids for another asthma flare) are keeping me from sleeping so I have tons of time to obsess. LOL.

You can always note the applicability of extended norms yourself on the application. If the raw scores are in your report, the Davidson folks will be able to see the applicability of extended norms.

My DD's WIAT scores were somewhat depressed (right around cut off) because she was an older kid in her grade. The WIAT cuts of questions at grade level in some sections but is age normed so she was only offered 2nd grade questions but age normed against kids who got more questions to answer. Anyway, the tester gave me a grade normed supplement (with several qualifying scores) as well as the age normed one in the report. I sent both in and highlighted that in the app. I worried about that a lot but DD was admitted right off.

DD's VCI was her qualifying IQ score. She too qualified for extended norms but her score was well above the cut off so they weren't necessary. From reading lots of DYS app threads, conventional wisdom here says that qualifying scores are the gold standard for admission. Your DD's scores are so clearly qualifying that I wouldn't worry about extended norms for DYS. If it were me though, I would want the report to reflect them anyway for non-DYS purposes like advocacy with a school, etc.

As to taking steroids for asthma, I feel your pain amazedmom. Good luck!

Your child's scores clearly qualify, so you really need not stress over it. You should not need to submit anything else other than the recommendation and it sounds like you have that covered as well.

I'm not sure why this is so stressful. For one of my kids, I submitted the DYS application the same day I got scores and spent less than an hour on it. It's not that big of a deal, especially with scores that meet their criteria. Just fill it out!

I remember getting the initial big scores and freaking out a little. I sympathize. It's a lot to get your head around initially, but from a few years later down the road, the scores are far less interesting. Ultimately, kids need what they need from school and while there is some correlation with IQ, I've seen PG kids thrive or fail in virtually all circumstances. The IQ doesn't determine her needs or what will work for her.

Being admitted to DYS will not change your circumstances or make school administrators suddenly get it, or provide you a good school fit for your child. There is benefit in having access to other parents with similar children, but ultimately finding a good situation or a least-worst situation will be up to you.

One last caveat regarding extended scoring . . . . IQ tests simply are not that reliable in the tails. Extended scoring and very high FSIQ were based on extrapolations from very small numbers. Even in the pool for extended scoring, I think the highest regular IQ was 151 (IIRC?). These numbers are fairly wild extrapolations and should be taken fairly lightly. Your child is not a number and her educational needs are not fully determined by IQ. Some kids with FSIQ >150 manage fairly well in school with some accommodations or a focus on sports or a focus on ECs or social interests. Some struggle mightily in school even with far lower IQs. Some need early college to provide challenge. Some find better circumstances locally and make it work. The number itself tells you that your DD is wicked smart, but not much more than that and her personality, your options, and her interests will ultimately determine how her intelligence interacts with the world.

Thanks yall. Being on meds and not being able to sleep totally always kicks my OCD into overdrive. Letting it all go now. Guess I will work on the application this weekend and get it in and have Laura get the rec letter to them. Yall made me feel a lot better. Thanks.

Amazedmom, my DYS application went in last week for April, so I can sympathize. As someone else remarked, qualifying scores seem to be the ticket.

By he way, in terms of support, have you found your way to Gifted Homeschoolers Forum? They have a wonderful e-mail list that makes me feel a little less alone every day.

I totally sympathize with some of your worries. Our DD isn't even at the level that yours is at and we have some of the same concerns. We live in a rural area and the concern that perhaps limited teaching resources available locally may not be enough to sufficiently challenge/engage my DD did 'cross my mind' - several million times .



It is a bit 'out freaking' at first - over time you get used to it. It is a bit of a roller coaster - one day you are thinking "why can't she be 'normal'?" and other days worry that given her potential you should be doing more to 'enrich'/feed the flames of her rapacious curiosity. Over time, I think that things get better but if you are prone to over analyzing (read worry - just like me) then it can be difficult at times - like everything else, you will eventually adapt to the new 'normal'

We have found that it is really important to engage the school district if at all possible - we have been lucky so far (and God willing long may this last) - we went out of our way to present it as an 'issue' that we needed help over and were anxious to address as a 'team' with the school district staff and ourselves instead of 'demanding differentiation etc'. I like to think that most school district staff want to help families with 'problems' so when it is presented in those terms we have found that the staff have been sympathetic.

Having said all that we are about to embark on some targeted acceleration/enrichment with our DD within the school district so I can only speak from the position of having very limited experience of this so far...