Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion go to college or no?

My DH and I are lately discussing the pros and cons of going to college.

At this point my feeling is that, although there are some few kids who really turn the world on it's ear by inventing something or writing a novel, etc., without the need for starting or finishing college, most kids are not going to fall into this category (timing, drive, smarts, etc.)


Our ds12 wants to be a video game designer and we are supporting that, however I think a b.a./b.s. in computer science or math or even art will make him much more employable in general terms. Not to mention where he'll be at 25 if he suddenly realizes he wants to get a masters; without even a b.a. it would probably seem insurmountable.

Mainly I think he's just gonna get sick of explaining during job interviews why he didn't go to college


Considering the ridiculous costs associated with big name schools, those are probably out. My DH tends towards the anarchic, and is really excited about some of the online ed. opportunities that seem to be out there and which may even nudge out regular colleges in a few decades. He sent me an article about how kids who go to college are going to be increasingly considered 'on vacation' and when applying for jobs considered less well prepared than someone who has been working for a while.

I don't buy it; some of it sounds great - skip a huge tuition bill? SURE!

But at this point I think that if my child can get a full or nearly full scholarship the idea of skipping college to go straight to work will not be considered.

Anyone else having these ruminations?

College, for sure.

There's no real need to go into life-long debt to accomplish a BS, though. Do the first year or two's worth of credits at your local Community College, and then transfer to a decent in-state public University to finish up. People love to shit on random state universities, but they tend to have excellent post graduation employment rates.

The biggest key, if he wants to program (video games or anything else) is to ACTUALLY PROGRAM. A lot. Over and over. Publish his stuff online. A lot. Then, when you graduate from school, you have a real portfolio of products to present an employer.

There was an interesting interview on NPR this morning on the very subject.

http://www.npr.org/2013/03/05/173416593/skipping-out-on-college-and-hacking-your-education

While I can't say that my BA from a highly ranked uni made a huge difference nor did my Masters, I also can't say that I'd be better off without them and I really didn't graduate with a ton of debt. Of course, prices have gone up a lot. I do still think that it is well worthwhile to get at least a Bachelors degree in most instances.

My dh, on the other hand, regularly expresses his opinion that he wasted time getting a BA and would have been better off doing like one of his childhood friends and training to work in something more trade oriented. I don't think that he is influencing our oldest who is very directed toward a career that will require at least a Masters likely, but I worry about our youngest when he tells the kids that college is a waste of time and money.

Did you, perchance, see this segment on 60 minutes a year or so ago: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57436775/dropping-out-is-college-worth-the-cost/?tag=contentMain;cbsCarouselhttp:// ? I don't know that I agree with the premise, honestly, though for most people. I'm sure that there are people for whom no college education works fine if they have some really innovative idea, but they are in the minority and statistically speaking college educated folks make more money in the long run. I do think that there are kids who are not college material and who might do better with training in a field that did not require college, but most of our kids probably aren't those people.

Computer programming, especially in game design & programming (nasty field btw; super long hours, significantly lower pay and poor job reliability) still looks heavily at what someone has done and can do. But if he can't make his own successful game or work as an intern to build credible, the degree may be the only way to get seen. But a career there is made more strongly by past successes.

There are also deeper skills and explorations one can do in school that you may not get to in a job where you are trapped in release cycles. Some of the specialty areas in game development need fairly advanced knowledge like AI, physics, graphics, and performance tuning.

There are some two year professional degrees in game development. If he is ahead in school, maybe he should plan a gap year to see what he can by himself before making a commitment.

p.s. I've never directly factored in a degree in hiring a business software developer.

p.p.s. Many game designers start out the field as testers and essentially work an apprenticeship until they move onto assistant producer or junior level designer or such.

Just keep in mind that most companies now use an online HR system as an application gatekeeper. For some companies, the lack of a college degree would prevent him from even getting an interview. It would really limit his options not to get one from any school.

Also, college provides a great opportunity to intellectually explore that is hard to recreate elsewhere. I'd focus on teaching your DS to take advantage of the opportunities available.

I agree with this (although one can consider things before rejecting them).

Gifted children may be able to earn enough AP/IB/CLEP credits
before college to graduate in three years. This should be considered, although some gifted children have a range of intellectual interests that even four years of college cannot satiate.

I found it disturbing when my daughter recently listed one of her long-term goals as simply "going to college" with no goals beyond that. At 12, I don't expect to have her life planned out but I feel like she already has bought into the "getting into college" arms race. I pointed out that there is no reason why she wouldn't have the option to go to college given our family situation and her abilities. Given that assumption, i.e. she will get into college somewhere, I want her to think about why she is going to college and how it fits into the rest of her life. Unfortunately, IMO, college is too expensive these days to go and take classes just because you don't have any better ideas about what to do after high school. I've started talking to her about how to make college worthwhile and how to use it to achieve a goal, i.e. finding a way to make a living that aligns with a passion.

Of course, all of this may be for naught. As my husband and I have seen with ourselves and our older siblings' kids, our kids may get through college with a marketable degree and then chuck it because it turns out they don't want to work in the area that they studied after all.

In the short term, being a video game designer may be his only aspiration. But longer term he may want to be promoted into a manager job with a tech company, and this is where he will bump his head if he does not have a four year degree. Unless he starts his own company -- but in that case it would really help him to have some business classes (accounting, marketing, finance, operations management, business law, etc.) under his belt. It is a WHOLE lot easier to get that degree when you are in your late teens/early 20s than when you are married with kids & a full time job, rent, etc.

The students getting the best jobs are doing both -- getting a degree AND getting good programming experienc in part time jobs & internships. I work it IT, very much a "what have you done for me lately" field, but still think he will regret it if he does not finish a four year degree.

By the way, if he (or your husband or anyone else) tosses out Bill Gates as a guy who did great in tech without finishing a degree, I recently read an interview with Gates where he said he should NOT be the poster boy for not going to college. He finished 3 years at Harvard before dropping out, and he says he only did so because he knew the Microsoft idea could not wait one more year given the speed of the market.

I have always regretted not going.

For example (this is one of many, many examples), I'm currently in a 10 month (continuing education) TA program. We recently had a class in math, and one of my fellow students said to me "Why are you doing this? You're wasted here - you should be the teacher, not the assistant." It's fine, because I don't want to teach, but if I did I'd have to start from scratch. Here teachers need a minimum of five years post-secondary, and I have zero.

(I'm in the program because of my kids... a) it's like an insider research project about the workings of the public school system to which they are currently exposed, and b) the schedule a TA works allows for me to be available to parent whenever they're not in school). Win, win.

College is more that just access to more career opportunities. It's about exposure to knowledge and learning, and also about connecting with people closer to your cognitive profile.

The reasons I didn't go are varied but involve a combination of apathy, indecision, resentment (towards formal education) and anxiety. I wish (I DEEPLY WISH) my parents had taken a more assertive role and persuaded me to go. This is one of my biggest regrets.

college/university = YES, 100%

At the very least could your DS attend a technical institute where he can earn transferable credits in case he does decide to pursue his masters? Transferable credits are a good thing