Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Test results- grade skip or better not to?

Below are my DD5's IQ and Achievement Scores. We requested evaluation for a possible grade skip. It seems to me that the basic scores are adequate (98% or higher is the cutoff). The psychologist then followed with the Iowa test for 2 grade levels above current grade, and these look awful. Based on those test results she does not qualify for a grade skip. I am not sure what to think. She is clearly far ahead of her age peers, but needs to stay in the same class. What would you do: push for a grade skip anyway, or find other ways to challenge? Thanks for any advice you may have. Here are the scores:

Wechsler Preschool and Primary Scale of Intelligence, third edition
Composite scores summary
Verbal 129 97%
Performance 127 96%
Processing Speed 122 93%
Full 130 98%

Verbal subtest
Information 15 95%
Vocabulary 13 84%
Word reasoning 16 98%

Performance subtest
Block Design 19 99.9%
Matric Reasoning 15 95%
Picture Concepts 9 37%

Processing Speed subtest
(Symbol Search) 15 95%
Coding 13 84%

Achievement, Woodcock Johnson III, Tests of Achievement (WJ III)
Reading Fluency 166 >99.9%
Passage Comprehension 147 >99.9%
Reading vocabulary 130 98
Reading comprehension 147 >99.9%

Mathematics
Calculation 137 99%
Math fluency 128 97%
Applied problems 137 99%
Broad Math 146 99.9%
Math calculation skills 137 99%
Quantitative Concepts 137 99%
Math Reasoning 145 99.9%

Written Language
Spelling 156 >99.9%
Writing Fluency 104 60%
Writing Samples 144 99.8%
Broad Written Language 145 99.9%
Written Expression 134 99%


Iowa Assessments, Complete Battery (achievement 2 yrs above current grade level)
Vocabulary 91%
Word Analysis 88%
Reading 67%
Reading Total 83%
Listening 42%
Language 83%
English Language Arts Total 82%
Extended English language total 80%
Math 35%
Computation 14%
Math Total 25%
Social Studies 36%
Science 8%

As a side note, the writing fluency score was very low since she writes neatly but slowly. This part was a timed test where you have to write a lot in a set time limit.
The listening skill score was low since this was drawn from the same writing test. She was supposed to use 3 words in a sentence for each question of the test. Being under time pressure she used only 2 words of the 3 for several of the questions - this resulted in a 0 score for that question for writing fluency, and also badly affected listening skills.

Is this ITBS?

Is it content-specific testing? If so, it's possible that she's testing low because she has simply never been taught those things.

Secondly, in terms of the explanation you've given above, is that problem (physical, motor-skills vs. cognition asynchrony?) likely to impact her ability to learn after a single gradeskip? Would it be accommodated in a classroom? Probably, is my guess, but the details matter a lot there. Is she still within the normal distribution for conventionally-aged peers in the next grade up? Again, probably, but it matters how it would be handled, and how the teacher(s) would communicate their assessment of that issue.

Where I see problems in your test scores (having a kid with a 2y skip at this age) is exactly where most kids have them--

writing fluency (speed, most likely) and some computational speed/automaticity issues with math.
There is that one subscore on the WPPSI, though... "picture concepts." I'm not entirely sure what that one indicates, but maybe someone else will know. It's possible that it merely indicated that your child had been so accustomed to thinking symbolically that she hasn't developed that area in a fully age-expected manner. I don't know, but I do recall that this kind of thing was problematic for DD at times when she was younger... it was also true, though, that her normal development in some very specific areas led to some weird blind spots occasionally-- like she could understand variable substitution and manipulation, but not sequencing simple series when she was ~4yo.


The rest of it doesn't seem a good reason to keep a child learning at a pace which is too slow, over material that has already been learned.

The problem that I see is that your DD's scores indicate that she would (probably) still not be getting instruction at an appropriate RATE for at least three or four years, even if you did skip.

It's also clear that any classroom teacher in your district is likely to identify her asynchronous areas as "areas to remediate" and force that issue. This does two things: a) it teaches such children that they must be perfect, and b) it teaches them that formal education is entirely punitive.

Is she unhappy with the current placement?

Have you looked at the Iowa Acceleration Scales? (I would.)

What are the best and worst case scenarios associated with skipping? With not skipping?

Can you "undo" the skip if it doesn't work?

Can you compact the next two years rather than doing a conventional skip? Does your district have split grade-level classrooms? That's one of my personal favorite options, because then your child CAN actually progress at an appropriate pace, and also stay with peers, and it softens the transition to the skipped grade the following year.

I can't tell you if I'd push for the grade skip - I think that depends so much on each individual child, their personality, and what you're comfortable with as a family later on down the line when it's time for middle school. I do think it's kind of silly if there's a bar on skipping up one grade based on performance two levels above current grade.. but that's just me... I'm not an educator! I can tell you that we didn't skip our ds but would have if it had been an option - when he was entering K. Years later, in middle school, I'm glad we didn't. For him - and this is just a sample of ONE - there was no right or easy answer, but he is much more comfy having age-peers in his grade and working in classes that challenge him (but aren't the most challenging he can take) - he's old enough now for him to give us that input himself. Elementary was beyond boring for him for a long time though...

There is one thing from your current set of testing that I would want a little more info on - the combination of a low score in picture concepts on the WPPSI and the low scores on timed tests. These *might* be related - I wonder if it might be indicating a vision challenge. There is NO WAY I would think any of those lower scores would be a reason not to skip, but whether or not you skip, I'd want to know a bit more about what was driving them just in case there's something you could do for your dd that would make that part of academics easier. I also know (from personal experience with my EG ds) that it's very easy for the tester to assume a low score on timed tests is due to "just working slowly" or "perfectionism" in HG+ kids when they are tested at a young age... when there could be something more going on (it happened to us).

Best wishes,

polarbear

I filled out the Iowa acceleration scale to the best of my knowledge and came to a score of 53 out of 80, which indicated DD to be a GOOD candidate for acceleration. Confusing...
Nonetheless, the "2 years above" test results make her officially ineligible for a whole grade skip per county rules. Then again, the principal has the ultimate say on this and can override the (county/ psychologist) recommendations.
Do you think I should get a second opinion on the interpretation of scores? The "2 years above" test was done by our AG teacher (first year in this position) and the others by the psychologist.

One of the examples of her poor "conceptional" thinking was that she could not give a definition or "a hero" but kept giving lots of concrete examples of heroes. This so-called struggle in conceptional thinking is the main reason why she apparently should not be grade skipped.

I am reviewing my notes to figure out what the pictures exercise was.

HowlerKarma, I think you are quite right when you say she scored low on some subjects because the info has not been taught yet.
But.. the interpretation for this "2+ yrs test" is that it tests for aptitude, and is considered very important for grade skipping purposes.

I believe I read somewhere that the Iowa Acceleration Scales are intended for the majority of gifted kids -- most gifted kids will benefit from a grade skip. We get all skewed on this board because there are so many HG+ kids discussed on this board. I would bring your results from the IAS, showing she is a good candidate, and discuss with the school.

I believe that a nicer goal in achievement for grade skippers is to get 85% on the next grade up, so they will still be doing well in the next grade. You do not want to set a child up for too many struggles. But I'd ask the tester what your child's ITBS scores translate into for one grade up, along with the results the tester already gave you.

There are so many factors to consider in a skip, including what the school has to offer with and without the skip. Think about the pace and the content of the curriculum next grade up. Will there be any new material? I would get information about this.

And how does your DD feel about school and about a potential skip?

Good luck.

Thank you St Pauli girl.

The tester actually compared achievement scores to grade level peers from current grade (Kindergarten) and the next grade (first grade):

Compared to Kindergarten:
Reading comprehension 144 99.8 %
Math Reasoning 141 99.7%
Math calculation skills 141 99.7%
Broad written language 143 99.8%
Written expression 132 98%

Compared to first graders:
Reading comprehension 125 95 %
Math Reasoning 120 91.7%
Math calculation skills 126 96%
Broad written language 128 97%
Written expression 118 89%

Has anybody approached the Gifted Development Center in Colorado for an educational consultation? I think I need more input or a second opinion from somebody who has seen lots of gifted kids (as compared to a regional tester). THis is such a big decision and I don't feel comfortable with this report's conlusion to not do a grade skip.

Wait, is she in K now? Is she a young 5 or an old 5? What's the skip you're looking for--skipping first?

In terms of writing, my experience has been that this is highly individual by school. My DD was not expected to write much at all in first grade at her first school--one or two short sentences at a time, at most. I understand that some schools expect far more. I would want to find out what would be expected. Writing is a concern of mine for my otherwise VERY skip-appropriate DS.