Below are my DD5's IQ and Achievement Scores. We requested evaluation for a possible grade skip. It seems to me that the basic scores are adequate (98% or higher is the cutoff). The psychologist then followed with the Iowa test for 2 grade levels above current grade, and these look awful. Based on those test results she does not qualify for a grade skip. I am not sure what to think. She is clearly far ahead of her age peers, but needs to stay in the same class. What would you do: push for a grade skip anyway, or find other ways to challenge? Thanks for any advice you may have. Here are the scores:

Wechsler Preschool and Primary Scale of Intelligence, third edition
Composite scores summary
Verbal 129 97%
Performance 127 96%
Processing Speed 122 93%
Full 130 98%

Verbal subtest
Information 15 95%
Vocabulary 13 84%
Word reasoning 16 98%

Performance subtest
Block Design 19 99.9%
Matric Reasoning 15 95%
Picture Concepts 9 37%

Processing Speed subtest
(Symbol Search) 15 95%
Coding 13 84%

Achievement, Woodcock Johnson III, Tests of Achievement (WJ III)
Reading Fluency 166 >99.9%
Passage Comprehension 147 >99.9%
Reading vocabulary 130 98
Reading comprehension 147 >99.9%

Mathematics
Calculation 137 99%
Math fluency 128 97%
Applied problems 137 99%
Broad Math 146 99.9%
Math calculation skills 137 99%
Quantitative Concepts 137 99%
Math Reasoning 145 99.9%

Written Language
Spelling 156 >99.9%
Writing Fluency 104 60%
Writing Samples 144 99.8%
Broad Written Language 145 99.9%
Written Expression 134 99%


Iowa Assessments, Complete Battery (achievement 2 yrs above current grade level)
Vocabulary 91%
Word Analysis 88%
Reading 67%
Reading Total 83%
Listening 42%
Language 83%
English Language Arts Total 82%
Extended English language total 80%
Math 35%
Computation 14%
Math Total 25%
Social Studies 36%
Science 8%

As a side note, the writing fluency score was very low since she writes neatly but slowly. This part was a timed test where you have to write a lot in a set time limit.
The listening skill score was low since this was drawn from the same writing test. She was supposed to use 3 words in a sentence for each question of the test. Being under time pressure she used only 2 words of the 3 for several of the questions - this resulted in a 0 score for that question for writing fluency, and also badly affected listening skills.

Is this ITBS?

Is it content-specific testing? If so, it's possible that she's testing low because she has simply never been taught those things.

Secondly, in terms of the explanation you've given above, is that problem (physical, motor-skills vs. cognition asynchrony?) likely to impact her ability to learn after a single gradeskip? Would it be accommodated in a classroom? Probably, is my guess, but the details matter a lot there. Is she still within the normal distribution for conventionally-aged peers in the next grade up? Again, probably, but it matters how it would be handled, and how the teacher(s) would communicate their assessment of that issue.

Where I see problems in your test scores (having a kid with a 2y skip at this age) is exactly where most kids have them--

writing fluency (speed, most likely) and some computational speed/automaticity issues with math.
There is that one subscore on the WPPSI, though... "picture concepts." I'm not entirely sure what that one indicates, but maybe someone else will know. It's possible that it merely indicated that your child had been so accustomed to thinking symbolically that she hasn't developed that area in a fully age-expected manner. I don't know, but I do recall that this kind of thing was problematic for DD at times when she was younger... it was also true, though, that her normal development in some very specific areas led to some weird blind spots occasionally-- like she could understand variable substitution and manipulation, but not sequencing simple series when she was ~4yo.


The rest of it doesn't seem a good reason to keep a child learning at a pace which is too slow, over material that has already been learned.

The problem that I see is that your DD's scores indicate that she would (probably) still not be getting instruction at an appropriate RATE for at least three or four years, even if you did skip.

It's also clear that any classroom teacher in your district is likely to identify her asynchronous areas as "areas to remediate" and force that issue. This does two things: a) it teaches such children that they must be perfect, and b) it teaches them that formal education is entirely punitive.

Is she unhappy with the current placement?

Have you looked at the Iowa Acceleration Scales? (I would.)

What are the best and worst case scenarios associated with skipping? With not skipping?

Can you "undo" the skip if it doesn't work?

Can you compact the next two years rather than doing a conventional skip? Does your district have split grade-level classrooms? That's one of my personal favorite options, because then your child CAN actually progress at an appropriate pace, and also stay with peers, and it softens the transition to the skipped grade the following year.

I can't tell you if I'd push for the grade skip - I think that depends so much on each individual child, their personality, and what you're comfortable with as a family later on down the line when it's time for middle school. I do think it's kind of silly if there's a bar on skipping up one grade based on performance two levels above current grade.. but that's just me... I'm not an educator! I can tell you that we didn't skip our ds but would have if it had been an option - when he was entering K. Years later, in middle school, I'm glad we didn't. For him - and this is just a sample of ONE - there was no right or easy answer, but he is much more comfy having age-peers in his grade and working in classes that challenge him (but aren't the most challenging he can take) - he's old enough now for him to give us that input himself. Elementary was beyond boring for him for a long time though...

There is one thing from your current set of testing that I would want a little more info on - the combination of a low score in picture concepts on the WPPSI and the low scores on timed tests. These *might* be related - I wonder if it might be indicating a vision challenge. There is NO WAY I would think any of those lower scores would be a reason not to skip, but whether or not you skip, I'd want to know a bit more about what was driving them just in case there's something you could do for your dd that would make that part of academics easier. I also know (from personal experience with my EG ds) that it's very easy for the tester to assume a low score on timed tests is due to "just working slowly" or "perfectionism" in HG+ kids when they are tested at a young age... when there could be something more going on (it happened to us).

Best wishes,

polarbear

I filled out the Iowa acceleration scale to the best of my knowledge and came to a score of 53 out of 80, which indicated DD to be a GOOD candidate for acceleration. Confusing...
Nonetheless, the "2 years above" test results make her officially ineligible for a whole grade skip per county rules. Then again, the principal has the ultimate say on this and can override the (county/ psychologist) recommendations.
Do you think I should get a second opinion on the interpretation of scores? The "2 years above" test was done by our AG teacher (first year in this position) and the others by the psychologist.

One of the examples of her poor "conceptional" thinking was that she could not give a definition or "a hero" but kept giving lots of concrete examples of heroes. This so-called struggle in conceptional thinking is the main reason why she apparently should not be grade skipped.

I am reviewing my notes to figure out what the pictures exercise was.

HowlerKarma, I think you are quite right when you say she scored low on some subjects because the info has not been taught yet.
But.. the interpretation for this "2+ yrs test" is that it tests for aptitude, and is considered very important for grade skipping purposes.

I believe I read somewhere that the Iowa Acceleration Scales are intended for the majority of gifted kids -- most gifted kids will benefit from a grade skip. We get all skewed on this board because there are so many HG+ kids discussed on this board. I would bring your results from the IAS, showing she is a good candidate, and discuss with the school.

I believe that a nicer goal in achievement for grade skippers is to get 85% on the next grade up, so they will still be doing well in the next grade. You do not want to set a child up for too many struggles. But I'd ask the tester what your child's ITBS scores translate into for one grade up, along with the results the tester already gave you.

There are so many factors to consider in a skip, including what the school has to offer with and without the skip. Think about the pace and the content of the curriculum next grade up. Will there be any new material? I would get information about this.

And how does your DD feel about school and about a potential skip?

Good luck.

Thank you St Pauli girl.

The tester actually compared achievement scores to grade level peers from current grade (Kindergarten) and the next grade (first grade):

Compared to Kindergarten:
Reading comprehension 144 99.8 %
Math Reasoning 141 99.7%
Math calculation skills 141 99.7%
Broad written language 143 99.8%
Written expression 132 98%

Compared to first graders:
Reading comprehension 125 95 %
Math Reasoning 120 91.7%
Math calculation skills 126 96%
Broad written language 128 97%
Written expression 118 89%

Has anybody approached the Gifted Development Center in Colorado for an educational consultation? I think I need more input or a second opinion from somebody who has seen lots of gifted kids (as compared to a regional tester). THis is such a big decision and I don't feel comfortable with this report's conlusion to not do a grade skip.

Wait, is she in K now? Is she a young 5 or an old 5? What's the skip you're looking for--skipping first?

In terms of writing, my experience has been that this is highly individual by school. My DD was not expected to write much at all in first grade at her first school--one or two short sentences at a time, at most. I understand that some schools expect far more. I would want to find out what would be expected. Writing is a concern of mine for my otherwise VERY skip-appropriate DS.

Chiming in with my two cents re: writing (though I'm talking more specifically about handwriting). I agree with ultramarina -- find out how this is handled at the school. My DS was not so great with handwriting during K, so when he skipped first, his handwriting was noticeably the worst, sometimes completely illegible. His teachers were pretty cool about it, saying it was age appropriate, and in class it wasn't an issue. However, when we asked to get him skipped up another grade in math, the GT coordinator blocked it, saying that he couldn't keep up with the writing. We found another school that was much cooler about not caring about handwriting as much - he was ready for 3rd grade math, and the teacher said that if DS couldn't write everything, he could verbally explain his answers.

I looked at some of your past posts and see that your DD is in a GT magnet. You wrote:

I have heard stories that GT magnet schools are sometimes less flexible than other schools, and less willing to offer grade skips, because they feel they know what they are doing. They probably do in most cases, but not every GT kid is the same. From your description, it sounds like the school is fairly flexible with moving her to different grades for work. I guess I would want to know why the school feels it is so important for your DD to be with her agemates if she is more comfortable with the kids in the higher grades.

I live in the Denver area. We haven't tested at GDC but know several people who have. It seems like it is a love or hate kind of experience. You need to be careful about who will be doing the testing. I think that they sometimes contact it out? This may just have happened when they were helping re-norm the WPPSI. People seem very happy with Bobbie Gilman. Like I said, all word of mouth so take it with a grain of salt.

Is it accurate that she is at a gifted magnet and is being subject-accelerated for some subjects? If so, I don't believe I would advocate for a skip. Of course, you have much more knowledge than I do. Although my DS is a very good candidate for a skip, I don't know that we'll do it because I expect him to join DD's gifted magnet is grade 2 and I know the expectations for workload are not going to be age-appropriate if he skips (regardless of ability, which would not be an issue, IMO). I think it will be a "close enough" fit once he gets there, as it has been for DD, though I'm quite concerned about K and 1. Obviously, magnets vary. DD's is pretty good.

You mention in the first post in this thread that she is significantly ahead of her grade peers. Is this her grade peers as well as her peers in the subject accelerated classes or her grade/age peers in general? Also, what does the admission criterion for her school look like? Did she just make the cut (i.e. - do they require a FSIQ at the 98th percentile) or is she well above the admission requirements?

I ask these things b/c I think that part of what goes into making decisions regarding grade skips is how out of step a child is with the kids in her individual school setup not just how far out of step she is with kids her age in general. We did skip one of my girls whose IQ scores are just somewhat higher than what you list here (i.e. - she's HG, but not PG). In her instance it was primarily b/c we have no GT magnets, the GT programming was limited to an hour a day or so even in the schools with the most GT programming, and admission to GT programming was so liberal as to include up to 20% of the kids in the school so even a 98th percentile kid likely would have needed more than what it offered. If we had had GT programming that set a cut around the 98th or 99th percentile FSIQ, I suspect that she would have been fine without the skip - ahead of her peers in her strong areas still, but not so much that it couldn't have been accommodated.

I agree with Cricket on this. And.. fwiw.. I don't think that it's merely dependent on school district and availability of gifted programming - it can also vary quite a bit by schools within a district, even if they are supposedly operating under the same overall policy on gifted id and programs.

polarbear

I agree with Cricket, too. My DD is in a full-day 99th% FSIQ cutoff program. She's still not fully challenged, but a skip is totally off the table for us. She would be (and was) in trouble in a regular school with only a pull-out, though.

Yes-- what Cricket said.

It may be better NOT to skip if the demands are likely to become appropriate at some point 1-3 years away.

In cases like that, it can be better to look for ways to subject accelerate and differentiate within the placement rather than changing it completely.

It really depends on the details, unfortunately.

I'm curious what the school's logic is in saying that this particular student would NOT be a good candidate for a skip, however. I'd listen carefully to what they tell you, and see if it makes sense given what you know.

She is in K and I'd like for her to go to 1st grade now. Her DOB is in May, so she'll be 6 in a few mo's.

One of the big things the report seems to focus on is that she is one of the younger students in her Kindergarten class, and a grade skip may make her feel out of place when grade peers start driving as well as other middle/ high school social concerns.

She is doing great in first grade, and loves her reading/ writing time there.

I worry with NOT pursuing the skip that she will continue to be bored (which she reports daily). Plus, I have seen the negative consequences of being underchallenged in school with a couple of family members. Anyway, I will see what the school is willing to do in a few days and let you know.

We did testing at GDC and had a positive experience. They pretty much just confirmed what we already knew.

DS had issues with picture concepts and GDC recommended we have his eyes checked. It was obvious to them that something was going on. Turns out he had issues and we have been doing vision therapy for 5 months now with great success!

I feel confused--aren't there other kids at the magnet with needs similar to your DD?

That would be a big piece I'd want answered before making decisions re grade skipping for your dd. My grade skipped dd was very young for grade preskip and it was still the right choice so I wouldn't let that one piece be the deciding factor. However, I absolutely would want an Iowa Acceleration Scale filled out. My dd was still an excellent candidate for a skip even factoring her age in on the IAS so I know that age alone shouldn't rule a child out.

To be honest I don't know exactly how able my dd is (her one IQ test was administered by a grad student, dd was't wildly cooperative, her speed issues certainly depressed parts, and she had some very high spots in the 19+ area). I feel comfortable, though, in saying that her IQ scores and achievement since then pre and postskip indicate a child who is probably somewhat above the 99th percentile but probably not 99.9th. Skipping really did seem not only to be an acceptable choice for her but necessary for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

If your dd is in a magnet, though, where her IQ is fairly close to the other students' and her needs are still not getting met, I'd have a few questions:

Is it possible that they start out slow but will better meet her, and the other students', needs later?

Might her IQ scores be well off?

Are the entry requirements much lower than I am thinking?

I wasn't sure fromthe OP what "AG" magnet means - does AG stand for some form of gifted? If it does, I would suspect there would be other students who are in the same ability range as your dd, unless the testing bar was a lot lower than where she's testing in ability. Even then, if it's the only gifted magnet in an area I'd still think there would be a few other kids in her grade level working at her level. That's one piece of info I'd want before making a grade skip decision.

polarbear

AG stands for Academically Gifted, and GT stands for Gifted and Talented. In our area we have a GT magnet school and an AG magnet school. The talented refers to performing arts amongst other things. The AG school has more funding available for gifted education and likely has more teachers certified in gifted education.
We attend the GT school. Even though this school has a G for gifted in its name, there are NO students who are subject accelerated or grade advanced that I know of (and I am fairly well connected within the school). The last time a child was grade advanced was 6 or 7 yrs ago. This is the first time anybody can remember that testing was requested for a Kindergarten student (or any). The teachers involved keep commenting how this is such a great learning opportunity for them since they have never dealth with this before (i.e. referral for testing and interpreting results). I am less than thrilled about this being a new experience for everybody.
This school does not have entry requirements, and should not be seen as a "school for the gifted" IMHO. It is a school with fun art electives, and those considered gifted in the lower grades have pull-out sessions once or twice a week for 45 minutes with the AG teacher.

Ah, so "gifted" magnet in name only. With no entry requirements, I can see as how a 98th percentile kid might be out of the norm then.

FWIW, I don't think that most of the schools we've dealt with have much experience in interpreting test scores or have much experience dealing with kids like my dd14, either, but we have had a few who did a good job recognizing that her needs were rather different than most of the other GT ided kids and who advocated for her as a result.

I just don't have any experience with grade skipping this early in the schooling process. I suspect that there are benefits to doing it sooner and perhaps somewhat greater risks in that you don't know what the child's long-term trajectory looks like. However, none of us can have a crystal ball as to long term trajectory and, if you really feel that her needs cannot be even somewhat met without the skip, there are certainly MG kids who do quite well with grade skips. I wouldn't say that it is only HG-PG kids who need to skip sometimes.

eta: One thing that I suspect would really help your dd out in acceleration is her high processing speed. That has been the one piece that has been a challenge for my grade skipped kiddo b/c her processing speed is truly average, which is very out of step with her other abilities.

Yes, this.

My DD13 is one of a very slim handful of PG kids in our virtual school's entire system (nationwide, I mean, so at least 20K kids, pretty much everyone in Baltimore knows her BY NAME alone). Oh, sure, they have a fairly high frequency of HG kids who are +1 or +2 years accelerated (maybe 10% of the enrollment is kids who are more than MG, at a guess)-- the environment is definitely 'enriched' in those kinds of students because so few schools serve them anything like well...

but kids like mine are still exceedingly rare. There is a vast gulf between what typical students need and what MG ones do, but the difference between MG and HG is just as large.

Our first teacher was fascinated by my description of DD's internalized mastery-learning. I had no idea that it was weird because she's always been this way; apparently that is something that a lot of educators with GT endorsements haven't ever actually seen, but have only heard about.

The upshot is that for many subjects/tasks, the learning is seemingly happening overnight and like a light switch-- nothing-nothing-nothing-nothing... BANG. Complete mastery, inside-and-out, often of a fairly wide swathe of material. There is no "practice and revise, rinse-and-repeat" for her. At that point, further instruction really is a waste of time, and probably damages the relationship between teacher and student because the point should be on the learning, right? Not on "compliance."

Nothing short of extremely flexible placement and pacing is truly appropriate for a student like that-- and the more inflexible the placement(s), the worse the fit gets. All of our troubles with the school come down to a lack of flexibility. ALL of them.

I'm a bit jaded at this point, but my basic feeling is that it is seldom the case that a "gradeskip solves problems." Maybe it makes the match between student readiness and curriculum less apparent, but it doesn't remove problems which actually exist in most cases. Why not? Because a school that is flexible enough to work for an HG+ child is going to do what they can without a gradeskip (mostly), and one that isn't is ONLY going to do the skip and then blame any future difficulties on the student's immaturity or the parent's unrealistic expectations. Yes, cynical of me, I realize, but that is how I tend to see this working for more people than not.

A gradeskip alone doesn't solve the underlying problem of inflexible pedagogy and rigid thinking.

Mind. Blown.


I need to think about this statement some more, but it feels like it totally reframes the struggles that we have with DD8's school. Thank you.

I'm pretty sure that HowlerKarma's dd is more gifted than mine and, while I do agree for the most part with what she said above, I wouldn't want it to turn you off to the idea that grade skips can be beneficial. While we, too, have found that the way dd learns still isn't a fit for the way schools are set up, school isn't horrible.

For her it is the difference btwn a kid who spent her school days tutoring the other students even in her weak subjects and who, in the early elementary yrs was depressed to the point that she sat at her desk crying in class to a kid who has needed a differentiated learning plan and for whom some of the classes still are not a great fit but who isn't totally wasting her time at least.

Right on all counts-- make no mistake, we are most emphatically NOT sorry for doing acceleration...

and I'll also add that (IMO) the most crucial time to make that fit better is early.

That's when kids are learning what school is for, more or less. If they learn that it is about compliance, punishment, socializing with others, being a teacher's aide, and NOT about trying one's best and learning, that is a disaster that can be awful to remediate later. It's also when children who have mastery of basic numeracy and literacy can spend the greatest percentage of their time bored; the gap is widest then. In an eerie coincidence, this is also when they develop a reputation for 'problem behaviors' in some classrooms. Bored 6yo's trapped in inappropriate learning environments don't have the same kind of impulse control and maturity that bored adults do when trapped in mind-numbing meetings. Or maybe they just don't have access to smartphones.

DD13's gradeskips worked (relatively well-- as cricket and kcab both note, we've traded really-bad problems for other problems, basically) because we were working with a set of school administrators and teachers who ARE flexible and helpful. Mostly. When we've had one or two who aren't, it really shows us just how horrific it would be without that bit of things. That's why I'm so confident in stating that if your school takes the outlook that acceleration = "our work here is finished, now go forth and prosper" then it may not work very well.

One trade, though, is that my DD appears (on paper, at least and increasingly in person) to be a fairly typical, high-achieving MG/HG junior in HS. She does not necessarily 'appear' to be what she actually IS; a PG kid doing amazing quality work four to six years beyond what her age would predict even for most GT kids, and struggling mightily with ongoing asynchrony. One additional reason for this is that it is still the case that the work is simply not "appropriate" in terms of pacing and depth, though it's quite high in terms of output demands (busywork, mostly). She probably won't get a perfect 2400 on her SAT's this spring, and probably narrowly missed NMSF levels in our state-- meh. That's a trade-off. She's in the 95th-99th percentile pretty regularly, not the 99.99th because of the acceleration, but on the other hand, without it, she'd be so completely shut down that she wouldn't appear to be at that higher level anyway. It's obvious; she does paradoxically more sloppy and thoughtless work on easier tasks.

Kids who need the acceleration are often caught in something of a no-win situation. Because doing nothing for them certainly isn't better than giving them something more appropriate to do, but acceleration also isn't entirely "giving them appropriate" things to do. The fit might be better, which isn't to say that it's actually going to be good, or that you will have improved everything without worsening anything.

This is why the IAS is important, and it's also why schools look at some subscores carefully. Individual areas of strength and weakness can interact with different curricula in pretty predictable ways, and often the school is in the best position to know what obstacles lie ahead in that path.

As Kcab notes, having the discussions is generally a good thing, because it definitely provides much-needed information for everyone no matter what happens.

This is exactly where we are with dd as well. She appears to be a gifted 10th grader but is generally 18 - 24 months younger than her grade peers now and still has some significant asynchrony that is hard to get schools to see when they forget that she is younger and still rather different than similarly performing kids in her grade who are considerably older. Kind of like the Columbus Group definition of giftedness that notes how the asynchrony increases with increasing levels of giftedness - were she really a MG+ 15 or 16 y/o rather than a HG 14 y/o she probably would have different needs and less need for ongoing individualization.

In a related insider tip, there-- with a grade-skip and high levels of asynchronous skill development, there is also a real danger that a child will assume that his/her weakest skill set is what defines him/her as a student.

Because all of the interventions/accommodations seem to focus on hothousing or working around those more age-appropriate skills.

My DD is convinced that she is "merely average" as a writer (not true other than maybe if your comparison group is "AP Lit students three to five years older than me") and that she "struggles with math." (Uhhhh... NO... she's finished with algebra II and has such good understanding and retention of high school math that she was hand-picked to be among a handful of peer tutors to middle and high school students nationwide. I'm thinking that isn't "struggle" the way most people think of it.) I'm pleased to note that she's finally begun seeing the truth of this in working with students who truly DO struggle.

She doesn't see how her other skills are still really extraordinary even among the academic peer group (for example, she now has "humanities friends" and "STEM" ones, and she's the only crossover).


It's kind of a warped self-image. That's the one consequence of acceleration that we would have really liked to avoid. She has a tendency to interpret "I have to apply some effort to this activity" as "struggle" because everything else is still not anything like appropriate, and therefore still just as effortless as it was before the acceleration. I hope that makes sense. This is one of the conundrums that I simply haven't found any way around, as hard as I've thought about it.

My dd does the exact same thing. She's rather convinced that she's bad at math, which is the one subject that has required work post-skip. I think that she's still feeling pretty confident about her language arts abilities b/c she's performing we'll beyond the honors expectations in that area and her smart friends still ask her to do the write ups and presentations on group projects b/c she'll do the best work.

Agreed. Our district is one in which The Only Official Options are either a skip or a subject acceleration, both of which are available in theory only by following a narrow and prescribed path, guarded by people who don't know your kid. And even our great principal and guidance counselor, who do know DD and are generally supportive of her zooming ahead, still make noises about "maybe she's just too young" and "she needs time to be a kid."

My DD (now a 9yo 5th grader) was a late bloomer, and it wasn't until midway through first that school became intolerably slow, so I'm also in the camp of "don't have experience with a K-1st skip."

Skipping 2nd was clearly the least-worst choice for DD; I can't even imagine what it would be like for her to be a 4th grader this year. But having a 9yo grade-skipped 5th grader with an additional stealth math acceleration is not at all the same as having an optimally gifted 10-11yo 5th grader.

This can be so frustrating. My daughter thinks she is not good at math.

So I ask - "Do you think I'm good at math?"
"Oh yes. You are great at math."
"Well, with your grade skips and subject acceleration, you are three years ahead of where I was at the same age."
"Hmmm..."
"That boy in your grade who you think is a math genius? He's only one math class ahead of you, yet is well over a year older. And those math geeks from a grade below who are in your math class? They are also older than you. You are NOT bad at math."

Urgh. And she still thinks she is not good at math...

Asynchronous development is fun to deal with. Quite often I have to remind myself that no matter how ahead she is academically, she is still very much a 12 year old in other respects.

S.F.

I had a child who spent a year thinking he was bad in math. Took another year of working with him to get him to drop that thinking. He thought if you have to teach him a math concept and a procedure for solving a problem then you are bad in math. He just wanted to know it without any discussion at all. But he didn't want to figure it out himself in an inquiry method way...he just wanted POOF to know it.

We spent tons of time explaining what "bad in math" might look like and explaining what normal "learning new concepts" looked like and what was expected of him and what wasn't (the poof was not expected). Eventually he decided that he was decent in math. And he is kind of mathy as a general nature but isn't brilliant but he was selling himself way short of his natural well above average ability. It was his attitude that held him back not aptitude.

I've just had an epiphany about this--

the problem here isn't inherently about acceleration, but it's related to "What a Child Doesn't Learn," but about what they have learned instead.

Our kids who aren't challenged in their earliest schooling experiences learn that formal learning environments are about demonstration of mastery/competence, NOT "learning, making mistakes, and growing in understanding." They learn that pleasure comes from KNOWING, not from LEARNING. (Or it had better, if they intend to not spend most of their time miserable-- they adapt to a fixed mindset because of environmental pressures...)

Then in the wake of acceleration, if there is an unresolved lack of challenge, the child interprets this as normal. The contrast, though, leads to labeling the area of appropriate challenge as "too hard" by comparison. Okay, so most of the new placement is "easy" and these few areas feel way hard... ergo, "I struggle at {difficult task}. I don't have very strong skills in that area." It's not an illogical conclusion in a person without much life experience.



ETA: I've also identified why my gut has always maintained that EARLY acceleration is so important-- the more gifted the child, the MORE important. That reason? Consider how rapidly such children learn things. And how permanently they know them. Sobering.

Also, look what we (our society) do: we allow "I struggle at {difficult task}" to be a way of saying that something is wrong! But struggling is not a sign that something is wrong: it's a sign that work is being done. How did we get to a position where for any given school subject, we expect that most children will not struggle with it?!

We had our school meeting today. The results are:

- subject acceleration for literacy/ reading, with visits to a higher grade (hopefully daily)
- twice weekly pull-out sessions with the AG teacher (literacy + math)
- challenge packages from the AG teacher for reading comprehension/ writing/ math, to work on during class time
- she does not need to participate in classroom instruction on topics she clearly comprehends (possible pre-test/ opt-out)
- special weekly homework from the teacher with reading comprehension and math at a higher grade level
- she will have an IDEP in a few days (and happens to be the only child in our entire GT school of 400-450 kids with an IDEP).

We are fine with the arrangements so far, although the IDEP is very vague and does state that the visits to higher grades and the AG teacher will be done "as scheduling permits". I had hoped for a commitment of at least 3 or 4 visits, each of a minimum of 30 minutes, per week. It's a decent start though, and I realize many schools are much less willing to cooperate with parents.

The school does not allow for acceleration for anything but reading for her, but offers differentiation only (in the way of core curriculum challenge packages). We're not completely satisfied with that. I am planning on starting her on EPGY at home to allow her to work ahead (her math achievement percentiles were quite high but aptitude not high enough).

Thank you for all of your comments and suggestions.

Great progress, Johanna! I hope that they follow through and that it works well to improve things for her.

Great news Johanna. For our ds9 we sinle grade accelerated him in math and then the oil lowing year ended up whole grade skipping I'm. Both worked well. In fact the subject acceleration ended up being a great stair step for whole grade the following year. He was much more comfortable because he already new a entire classroom of kids at the new grade level. Just thought I would mention. I posted another post but not sure if the submit otton worked.

We went through similar testing and Iowa scale as well. Have much share f you want to send an Im.

There are so many things to consider. We just went through a similar process this past year. My DS9 was given the Iq test and then had to take a 2 grade level above test. Then the Iowa acceleration form was used. I had read somewhere that scoring above 50 percentile on a two grade level or above should be a good score on this sort of test. Our son was being looked at for skipping 3rd grade. So at the end of 2nd grade he took the end of the 4th grade Stanford test. The way I looked at it if he scored 50 percentile he would be entering 4th grade at least in the middle of where other end of the year 4th graders were on the test. So likely after taking 4 th grade he would end up well above that. My gut was he would be at least above 85 percentile after he actually was taught 4th grade. Even though he would have skipped 2 nd. Does this make sense?

Are the 2 grade level above scores you posted the percentage (number she got right out of total questions) or were they percentile (where their score was compared to same grade kids nationwide). I ask because it tells you something different and ours were quite different.

Personally, I would not even worry about social studies and science as your child being in k would not have been introduced to these ubjects as much. I think if gifted these would be picked up easily skipping at her age. I would look at reading and math.

Our son scored good candidate on Iowa scale. The principle Said no and we went to superintendent. He skipped this year. Half way through he is doing great. We are very glad we did it at this point. He is very social so we were pretty confident with this part too. He came home from day 1 excited and talking all bout school and his new fiends.

This doesn't mean it s for everyone. There is a lot more I can share if you would like to IM me.

. I completely agree with your epiphany. Everything you said is how i see it with my DS. This is exactly like my ds9 who skipped third grade this year. I have always said he doesn't know how to "learn". I believe this is because he has never really had to learn. He has just known or understood or retained the first time he hears it. If he doesn't understand something he is almost impossible to teach. He shuts down. He is so used to everything being so easy and just being good at everything that has come his way that he has never had to learn how to learn. This is one of the reasons I pushed so hard to have him accelerated. I didn't want him to go through school never having to work at all or learn how to learn. My bother and mother both said they were in collage and graduate school when they had to learn how to study. I didn't want that for my DS. I also was concerned he would become lazy if he never had to work at something. Does this make sense?