Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment To test or not to test...

Howler, I agree completely with that ability should speak for itself rather than focusing on a number, but our experience has been that the numbers are necessary in advocating for our kids at public school. Even if we hadn't tested, the school would require their own testing for any type of gifted designation and services. OTOH, private school and non-traditional public (non b&m) have been much easier to work with. I think that's more where your dd is at, isn't it? Something not traditional public?

The other thing that I've seen (but my kids aren't *quite* there yet) is that once kids have the credits, they can take AP etc courses in our area's public schools... but to get the prerequisites *through* our public schools you have to advocate like crazy to prove your child is capable of working ahead (and that requires scores here... ability and achievement).

polarbear

Yes, to this. We will need a number for dd to have access to services, and potentially some form of acceleration. If we were homeschooling, or if she were in a multi-age Montessori classroom, or some place other than traditional public school, I might not be considering testing. But I also identify a lot with smart girls hiding their abilities to fit in and maybe it is because I lack imagination, but I do think it is valuable to have some idea of LOG--I had seriously underestimated dd12 prior to testing. I appreciate having this place though to remind me to take a breather! I think we are ok for the next year or so and then can re-evaluate.

In the case of our 2E DS10, the scores were transformative for the reasons of advocacy that Polar suggests. To be overly blunt and reductive, the school stopped treating my DS as a problem to be solved (or eliminated) and started treating him as a high-maintenance but high-value asset. To be sure, the scores are not the whole story, but when you have a problem to solve with people who take scores seriously, they are a tool.

If you have no problem to solve, I'm not sure they are worth the investment. Depends on the situation.

DeeDee

We did it to answer the "is he what we think he is" or "how unusual is he". And it changed our decision making - we moved to get him into a more appropriate school. And it validated the things we were doing while others said your pushing him or my favorite - why are they trying so hard to make him a geek.

But we needed the data, we needed the validation.

DeHe

I agree with the others who said that I don't know why you would need the full profile. I was looking at getting my daughter tested and I was getting quotes of about $400 for the WISC-IV test. My mother-in-law had the whole battery of tests done on my husband and she kept arguing with me and saying that the test would be about $2000. So, yeah I think that is a reasonable figure for the whole thing, but I just don't know why it's necessary.

On a somewhat side note. Our school said they screen in second grade. My daughter is in first. I sent in a written request for her to be tested. In this state (PA) they have to respond to that written request. Before I had it in writing, they tried to blow me off, saying they would screen next year. Once the written letter came in, they did a screening within about a month to determine if further testing was needed. Further testing WAS needed, so they sent me a form to sign to allow it, then they had 60 days to complete it. They tested her last week and apparently she qualifies for gifted services and they will get me the full results before the end of the month - when her 60 days are up. (god forbid they do anything earlier than necessary) After that we will have a meeting and get a GIEP. I found all this out by reading the state law. So, just an FYI that they may do more if you press the issue in writing. It depends on your state though.

Ours was a similar experience, but in our case, we already knew who our DD was, but the school needed cluing in that we weren't just "those parents." In the meetings prior to her test results coming in, I kept using the phrase, "If she is who we think she is, then..." Because of course, we knew.

But since it was the school that needed the test results, not us, it was the school that had to pay for it. This doesn't always work in a state without some kind of G/T mandate, though.

If she was tested at four and is in K right now, the last testing was, what, about a year ago? I wouldn't retest at this point with the last test being so recent and even though you think that the # was off unless there was some really good reason.

A few thoughts come to mind:

1) How gifted is your older child and how does your kindergartener compare in terms of functioning? Do you have some reason to believe that your dd is more gifted than the older one?
2) If you have such a huge # of kids in GT in your school, do you think that it is a problem with overidentification or do you think that there are truly a lot of gifted kids there?

If it is the latter, might she be okay without significant acceleration (i.e. - might there be enough peers for her in her school)? Even though I have a grade accelerated kid, I would not assume that all gifted kids need acceleration and we would not have jumped to that choice had there been other options that might have met her needs.

So it would be almost 2 yrs. between testing, as I was waiting until she turned 6 in March. But, I do think we will wait.

1) So the girls aren't biological siblings, fwiw. Oldest dd12 has DYS scores, and a recent grade skip that I think at 1/2 way through the yr. I can call successful. They are very different, and I have had the feeling that dd6 is more gifted, but again I don't really have anything concrete to base that on except my gut. I did not expect dd12 to have DYS level scores, though, so perhaps my gut is off! I have spent a lot of time in classrooms around pre-schoolers and elementary school age kids, so I do know what typical development looks like and I do think dd5 is >MG.

2)I think there are prob. a lot of gifted kids, but prob. a lot of bright high achievers with tiger parents who I can see prepping their kids for tests. This particular school cluster seems to be known for insanely competitive crazy parents who all think their kids are gifted--I have not actually met any of these people yet, but I suppose they must be out there. I don't think once/week pull-outs are that great, and I think even a skip prob. wouldn't totally be a solution, but I guess it would put her closer to middle school and more options. I think the school basically thinks there is such a large number of gifted kids that the regular classroom should meet their needs without much effort at differentiation. I have no idea if they would be receptive to subject acceleration or greater differentiation. The assistant principal does have a gifted certification and is very nice and handled the IAS process for dd12, so I think he would be a good ally.

Anyway, we will hold tight. Curious to see how she does in the fall. I like the idea of somehow prepping her for the process of the screening (not the content). That might be useful. She is such a quirky kid though it is so hard to know what she is thinking.

Thanks for the feedback again!

Just a side note, but I wonder how often that happens that two adopted kiddos are both HG+ (not distrusting your instinct at all, it is just curious re the nature/nurture/heritability stuff). Perhaps the birth moms chose your family b/c it was a "fit," though and the giftie aspect of things was part of that... musing over...

eta: I realized with your younger dd being adopted at 10 months of age that I was probably totally off on that musing in that there was likely no birth mom involvement at that point and that you also said that they weren't biologically related, which doesn't necessarily mean that your dd12 is adopted too. So, just ignore my above stream of thought there! Sorry.

Yeah, we have some of that here too with kids who are prepped a lot and retested until they get into GT. I'd also agree that once/week pull outs are totally insufficient and lack of differentiation within GT programming drives me nuts. Not all gifted kids are functioning at the same place and the needs are so diverse.

Subject acceleration is a good place to start, though, if the school is game. That was probably the best fit we had pre-skip for dd14 and it is working pretty well for dd12 in math right now. I'd rarely expect a skip, a GT pull out, or subject acceleration to actually fully meet the needs of a gifted kid, but at times it is better than the alternative.

Re: adoption--sorry, I wasn't clear--dd12 is the bio child of my husband and I, dd6 was internationally adopted. Dd12 is a lot like me, (minus the oversocialization, I hope) so I could, esp. when she was younger really understand where she was coming from. I think possibly that has something to with underestimating her (boy do I need to be on someone's couch! haha!) Dd6 presents so differently that maybe her giftedness stands out more to me. In the case of dd6 I don't think environment has very much to do with it--she was like this from the day we adopted her once her initial shock wore off. I know that according to research there is a greater incidence of ADHD in kids who were adopted. Impulsivity=more likely to end up with an unplanned pg. so the thinking goes. So I have thought that the gifted traits that look like ADHD could also lead to an unplanned pg. Of course that is even more complicated by poverty in the developing world. Completely anecdotally--I know 2 other kids the same age as mine, one adopted domestically at birth, one adopted from a different country as an infant, who are both clearly HG. So in that small sample there seems to be a correlation, lol!

It is complicated. But, I can just imagine the school and community with a collective eye-roll--"it wasn't enough that her bio kid skipped a grade, now she is asking for special treatment for the adopted kid, too?"

People's eyes popped out of their heads when they heard dd12 was skipping because the perception is that the schools are so challenging. I think that yes, for the high school kids taking 6 AP classes it is tough because of the work load. But after word got out about dd, another girl from her 5th grade class also requested a skip (different middle school) and is doing equally as well. I absolutely know that a kid across the street could benefit from a skip. So maybe there really is a higher concentration of gifted kids. I think to really meet dd's needs she would need a self-contained gifted program or a Montessori that was flexible, (or a different mother who would be good at homeschooling) which isn't going to happen, so we will just do the best we can with the options here.