Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school Asynchronicity makes me cry... no, literally

OK, I knew DS4 was a little "off" in his cognitive vs social/emotional development, and recent events have just solidified it.

He took the PPVT, and scored... I don't have it in front of me right now, but he scored in the 99.7th percentile or something like that. I have no real desire or need to get him tested any further at this point (everyone at his preschool gets tested because they get grant funding and need to test the kiddos for that purpose), but I think it's a good indication that he is, at the very least, a pretty smart cookie. The adding and subtracting and fraction-getting and reading and writing... also good indications.

His "self-help" was all right, and probably will get better this summer (we do a lot of the dressing stuff because he's such a space cadet; if we waited for him to button his pants we'd get everyone to school/work/babysitter at somewhere around noon) when we have the time to just let him practice and do stuff for himself. And even if it doesn't improve a lot this summer, I'm fine with that. He's the stereotypical "absentminded smart kid." Probably gets it from me.

And then there's his social/emotional score. Granted, it was based on my observations and reporting, and I might be a bit of a "harsh grader," but he scored, ladies and gentlemen, in the 8th percentile for kids his age. The cutoff score for "OK" is the 7th percentile, so he's BARELY doing all right.

He still has trouble transitioning between activities, even with ten-five-one minute warnings, and clear expectations of how "leaving nicely" or "putting it away nicely" looks. He hits when he's angry... but only at home. We put him in time-out when he starts raging, mostly just to give everyone a break, he refuses to stay in time-out. We pick him up from preschool, he leaves happily (which is actually a big step... for the first half of the year we literally had to stuff him into his coat and carry him out kicking and screaming). Then he finds out what we're having for dinner, or what we're going to do or not do that evening, or something else... and it absolutely sets him off. We drive home with him kicking the seat back and wailing.

I know that people usually look at the "immature gifted kid" and see a kid who is gifted but then average in the social or emotional sense and therefore looks immature compared to his cognitive and/or academic abilities... but this is awful. He KNOWS that he'll get to play his computer game again. He knows that even though it's not the pot stickers he wanted, he also enjoys fried chicken and broccoli. And yet... the meltdowns continue.

Tell me it gets better? Or tell me to get him help? I dropped him off at preschool today in tears (me in tears, not him).

Oh, sweetie. I can just hear how stressed you are (and you sound just like me when DD was that age). I do think that a visit with a neuropsych might help, and your test numbers certainly should qualify you to ask for help. I wish we'd taken DD8 to a doctor at that age, instead of waiting until now.

I can tell you that it does get better, but it also gets worse. That is, the behavior gets more manageable, but the stakes also get higher, and tolerance of differences gets lower. At least, that's my experience. Good luck, and do keep us updated.

I CAN get better, you are where I was four years ago. Each year gets slightly better than the last, but they're never the same as the vast majority of their age peers. I think the goal is to keep them on a good track until they find their niche. So much easier said that done, of course!

Even the time-out situation sounds familiar! I used to get so irritated when a neighbor used to go on about our next-door neighbor's daughter who was sooo good, sooo perfect blah blah blah and how when she was a toddler, her mother used to tell her to sit on the bottom step to take a time out, the girl would go there, sit for the duration, and be "fixed" (this perfect girl is now off in college and from her online presence quite the party girl and not shy with her tweets!!)

This is my practical non-clinical advice (I don't want to advise about the testing etc., there are others who are more expert at that):

Concentrate on a good school fit, and don't force a bad fit over a long period of time. This has been super hard for us and ongoing.

Look into DYS when he's 5 or so, don't wait too long because the testing data will "expire".

Put ALOT of time/money/energy into his passions (I'm sure he has them) as they come and go and try to share with him, find other kids to be with who have some of these things in common. This is probably one of the most important things you can do for his intellectual development and self-esteem.

Try to connect him safely with lots of different adults in the world of his passions (for my DD it's pretty much settled into science, LEGOs/architecture, animals, and singing...) Museum classes are always a good bet to try, or any get-togethers with a local or regional gifted association. You'll learn to really see a tremendous difference in how people will talk to him and react to him in different environments.

Ignore all dirty, stern looks and comments from people who have absolutely no idea what it's like to live with and raise a child like this (this can include relatives, friends, neighbors as well as complete strangers).

Embrace any compliment or advice from people who've been there or can see his potential, even if it's just a blip of an encounter from a stranger.

Take time for yourself. Doesn't have to be a fancy ordeal, you just need to do your favorite relaxing thing and not have to worry about where your child is, how he's doing, etc. (this is why it's hard for me to regenerate/regroup during school hours).

Even though it's so hard to be on the receiving end of this intensity, he's a big-intellect kid in a little body and it really is hard for him. In my opinion, that intensity is there as part of the package to power him along in his journey, whatever it's meant to be.

Enjoy him and work on being his best champion and it will definitely pay off.

Seconding ElizabethN: I think a neuropsych workup is a good idea.

Meltdowns, difficulty with transitions and slowness in learning self-care can be aspects of autism spectrum disorders. I think it's worth seeing what you can find out, so you'll have a clearer path to solving these problems.

DeeDee

p.s. and watch his diet...sometimes the little passionate ones are more sensitive to food dyes, additives, etc. so if you haven't done this already read up on it and watch him closely if you take stuff out/add it, etc. That's why birthday parties were such a nightmare when she was little!!

Thanks so much, everyone. I'll look at a psych work-up once we're settled back in the Lower 48 (we'll be moving next month) and, like, have health insurance and stuff. We haven't even started packing or throwing our house/life into chaos for moving yet; I'm terrified of what that will bring out.

I've thought about ASD in the past, but he doesn't meet any of the *major* signs. ADD (inattentive) or ADHD seem to be possibilities; his self-care relative deficiency is mostly a case of "it takes too long to have him do it himself" or "he'll wander away with it half-done, or done poorly." For example, he probably CAN button buttons, or could if given more of a chance to do it, but if I asked him to button a shirt, we'd be there all morning. He *IS* fairly capable of brushing his teeth, but I still need to supervise and go over them again because he'll just lose focus and start frolicking in the sink or something rather than finishing his teeth.

bzylzy, your experience with time-outs sounds similar to mine. I see my friends give their kids time-outs, and the kid just walks over, sits for a minute, then comes back. I give Isaac a time-out and it involves physically hauling him, and then him getting up, making a nasty face, and saying, "See? I can get up!" Lather, rinse, repeat. I'm not entirely sure what I can offer up as a consequence at this point.

Funny thing is, at school, they rarely have a problem with him. Occasionally he has difficulty transitioning between activities, but not to the same degree.

Oh you poor thing. Your DS sounds a lot like my DS11 who is HG, ADHD and dysgraphic. I remember SO vividly a 6 month stretch back when he was about 4 when he absolutely refused to wash his hands for dinner. I had a little step stool, liquid soap and me stationed right beside him for dinner hadnwashing. I would say "Time to wash hands for dinner." and this horrible news produced a huge meltdown every day. For months. He also had trouble with transitions, bath time, teeth brushing, arrgh, arrgh.

It does get better but so slowly that you don't really notice until one day you think "Hey, what happened to the hand-washing tantrums?" I remember four as the pinnacle of difficulty-toddler type tantrums with preschool staying power.

Hang in there. It will get better but your son will likely always lag behind. A neuropsych eval is a great idea. Keep a close eye on the social side of school where your son will struggle. I have found that the crystal ball question that tells about how school is going socially is "who did you play with at recess?"

That's interesting about the school not having the same issues. I'd try to find out more to figure out why before you leave.

My DH and I have shook our heads many a time about consequences. Even when something does work, it usually only lasts about 2 weeks.

When my DD was tested at age 4.5 her visual-auditory learning age equivilant was ">19" and her language and reasoning ability is so advanced. Every day, many times over, you have to remind yourself of their chronological age. Limits and boundaries are really what they need, just like all kids, but the whats/hows are the hard part, and it's hard to find people to ask who can really help you (except here).

Good luck with the move. If it's exciting and you talk about geography and stuff, get out the maps, he might really enjoy it. Give him some jobs, my DD always loves being put to work.

Ooof! I've so been there...It does get better. My daughter still doesn't like transitions but she copes much better. 5 was probably the worst, but by 8 she's an angel (mostly!) Some things that worked for me...

* shove protein into child's mouth as soooooon as you get them into the car after pick-up; don't even allow them to talk until they've eaten something;
* dump time-outs and consider alternative discipline methods like 1-2-3 magic. This worked OK for us, but you've got to tap into the child's currency.
* break the cycle by interrupting the routine. Catching the bus for a week broke the habit of getting into the car after pick up and storming all the way home.
* increase physical exercise after school so that the child has a way of healthy processing all of their pent up frustration. School can be a very frustrating place to be! My daughter needs at least 2 hrs of exercise a day after school, sometimes more... Gymnastics/diving/acro/bike riding ... are all great for this.

And give yourself a break! This too shall pass...

I think it's peer pressure. He REALLY enjoys hanging out with the other kids, and being one of the youngest, he sort of idolizes everyone. All of them. They can bring him over by playing up all the fun that everyone is having. His teacher will say, "Isaac, I know you're having fun doing abc, but if you're not over here in by the time I'm done counting to ten, we'll start doing xyz without you." Unlike at home, his peers starting something without him is enough to suck him away from whatever is holding his attention.

We're moving back to a place where we already own a home, and a place we have gone to every summer of his life. He loves finding Alaska and Wisconsin on a map or globe and showing how you get from one to the other.