Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Should I appeal?

Hello,
My daughter is in second grade. Youngest in her class, still only 7, will turn 8 over summer. She was selected for Gifted testing. She did not meet the cut-off scores. She needed:
CogAT, level B Quantitative of 71%, got 75%
CogAT, level B NonVerbal Battery of 88%, got 93%
CTP4 - Math Subtest of 65%, only got 57%

I would appeal because she came home from lunch after the test with the flu and a high fever. Missed 5 days of school after test.

She has California Achievement Test Scores placing her in the 98th percentile and a Grade Equivalent of 4.2

I feel I should appeal. She is bored in class. She does not try hard because it's not challenging. Her teacher is not supportive. She feels that her timed test scores warrant holding her in the regular program. I have tried to explain that is due to immaturity (7 yr) and that she has knowledge the timed test facts, just gets nervous on the "timed" part of the test. When presented with new, more challenging material, she picks it up quickly after a few tries. She has basic knowledge of multiplication and subtraction. I have asked to have her re-test but that is not an option. The only option is to appeal to have her scores over-ruled by a panel of Gifted Board Members.

What are you opinions? I am a ball of nerves. I should mention that I have older children who have thrived in the gifted programs.

I would definitely appeal.

What is the worst that could happen?

Glad to hear that the older children thrived!

Even if they don't want her in the Gifted Program, is there another way to get her in a classroom where she can be taught to her level? It seems like an appeal would be a good first step.

Smiles,
Grinity

There is no harm to appeal. I definitely would.
However, in our school district, the only way to get into the gifted program is to get at least 96th% on the OLSAT test (or a similar IQ test). They don't care about anything else. Hopefully your district is more flexible.

I would definitely appeal, especially since her ability scores met the requirements. If you've had older children in the program, do you know the GT teacher/coordinator? If so, I would call her/him up and explain the situation and see if she/he will advocate on your dd's behalf.

A side note: I think the use of some of these tests to determine access to gifted programs is misused. There have been studies showing that OLSAT/CogAT tests do not identify certain kinds of gifted thinkers. On the other hand, it is ridiculous to exclude a child based on achievement scores if there ability scores are high. If you are going to do that, then don't even give the ability tests and just base access on achievement. The point of giving them both is to give two different snapshots of the child's ability. Combined with an honest thoughtful teacher observation (and I actually think they should include a parent observation as well, but they don't usually trust us!) These three things together can give a good understanding of the child but excluding based on one makes no sense. I think it takes more work and effort to really get to know kids enough to make an intelligent decision and many schools just don't take the time to do this. I am so thankful that my DS's school did do this for him and did not exclude him based solely on CogAT scores, which were not at all representative of his abilities.

I also agree with Grinity, regardless of the GT program decision, they need to meet your daughter's educational needs.

I have mixed feelings about using a test like the OLSAT for entry into a G/T program. On the one hand, how should entry be decided? Teacher recommendation? We've all seen teachers who didn't "get" our kids, so that doesn't seem quite fair. Parent recommendation? Again, although we are most qualified to judge our kids, that seems a bit odd too.
A closed book exam like the Cogat, OLSAT, whatever? That is probably the fairest, yet what if your child just has a bad testing day. Etc.

Wow, thanks for the great responses. I spoke with our principal and he has encouraged us to appeal. Our principal explained that it would be ideal to have more levels of math within the regular classrooms but the district does not have the funds for this at this time. He also cautioned me that although she may be gifted, they can only take a certain amount of kids and the others are just left out. That is what is most upsetting. There are kids who NEED this and there just isn't space to accommodate everyone. So....Frustrating!

It's so interesting how diverse kids can be. My youngest is nothing like the other two. I think that is what is throwing me off. She is not motivated by grades or scores. She is not a teacher's pet. She kind of gets lost in the middle because she's not a problem. If she is not challenged by work, she would prefer to not do it. She will make small computation errors because she's really not engaged. When we introduce new/more challenging material, she digs right in. She is good at "mental math". Sometimes she shows no work and her teacher assumes she guessed. She loves logic puzzles and math games. I think her teacher has mislabeled her.

Worse case, we retest next year. I've heard it's harder to enter these programs once they begin. Because of the acceleration, students have more and more to catch up on. Worst, worst case.....I pick up the slack and make sure she is challenged at home.

Thanks for all of your support. It's such a touchy subject and it's hard not to let emotions take over. I can't talk to friends about it because they don't see the problem with my "smart" kid.

I just think there should be multiple data points and a child should not be excluded based on a single score that is set at an arbitrary level. Of course, really getting to know the kid is more costly and time consuming. But I think that school districts who set these arbitrary levels demonstrat IMO a lack of understanding of both giftedness and the tests themselves. For example, I am pretty sure I have read that the makers of the CogAT say that it should be used as a screener only.

I think there are studies out there that teachers are less than 10% accurate when it comes to identifying gifted children. Don't remember the exact percentage but I know it was less than 10%.

Thank you everyone for your support and advice. We just heard from our school and our appeal has been approved. Whew, what a relief. I am so happy that the board objectively looked at all of our documentation and did not base their decision on her teacher.

...wow, she's just like my daughter!! (Mine's made it into the gifted math program for grade 5, which starts in Sept.) She also wasn't showing her math work (bored, unmotivated, etc.) She's really hard to motivate in general, unless it's something she's interested in... (at the moment it's origami - as I type this she's in front of her lap top looking at diagrams, with scraps of paper littered all over the table and the floor, lol).

Congrats on your successful appeal