Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy AAAUGH! Teacher driving me batty!

So my meeting with my son's teacher a couple of weeks ago SEEMED to go really well. It seems that she was just telling me what I wanted to hear, though, because nothing has changed. The "more advanced" math he was supposed to do started out as different worksheets that were essentially on the same level. Now he is back to doing the same as everyone else - which, incidentally, is exactly the same sheets that he did last year. To make matters worse, his teacher collapsed the three reading groups into one. So he is not getting more challenging spelling words either, and is in a reading group where he has to sit around and wait for the kids that can barely read before he moves on. (He is reading at a fifth grade level now - and while I sympathize with the kids who are having trouble, it doesn't help EITHER group to do this.)
When I went to talk to his teacher about this today, she essentially told me that it was no big deal because the year was almost over anyway. The assistant made a snarky comment about how it doesn't matter what they teach him, because he doesn't pay attention in class anyway. (If he is not paying attention, and still bringing home 100's, SHOULDN'T THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING?!?)
Sorry for the rant - I came home in tears today, which is totally unlike me, and needed to vent a bit. I'll pick up the pieces and be ready to start the fight again tomorrow, I suppose.

Would she say something like this about a student with a disability?

My advice: write (don't call; keep it in writing) to the principal and ask him/her this question.

You might also want to note that the assistant has a prejudicial attitude toward your son and you're concerned about the negative effects of this attitude on your child.

What Val said!

I didn't think about that, Val, but you have a point. Part of me is tempted to just keep teaching him at home, write off this year as a waste of time, and start fresh next year. But you're right - even if they can't do anything about it immediately, they need to know this is a problem.
Sigh....and when I first started noticing he was gifted, I thought I would never have to deal with school issues. Boy, was I wrong.

My oldest is now in college, my younger in 6th grade. I have heard different versions of this for as long as my kids have been in school. And from my own experience - especially from what I learned when I did nothing - I completely underline the advice you've already been given. What I would do is email her with a cc to the principal and to the special ed chair, or whomever it is who follows your son if he has someone, restating what happened so that it is documented and let her know how concerned you are about what this type of attitude might be doing to your son's willingness to take risks with learning in her classroom. I would also likely ask the question about whether this would ever be considered appropriate for a child with disabilities.

One sarcastic teacher sent my older one on a spiral that took almost a year to repair. He decided to teach her just how stupid he was by getting zeros on everything he did - by making sure every answer he wrote was wrong, not by turning in blank sheets. She never once picked up on how smart a kid has to be to get every answer wrong (he has to know which answer is right and not pick it). She said he was a slacker, should not be in gifted, etc. I didn't take her to task, and I am so sorry I didn't. I not only kept her from being made accountable, it also showed my son that I wouldn't advocate for him for the sake of peace.

This year, I've had to challenge two of my younger son's teachers. And one continues her passive-aggressive snarks, but each and every time, I make sure my son knows I'm taking it seriously. He also knows it means he has to be accountable as well.

Go put on your momma bear ... I'm definitely in your corner.

Not that it has helped in any way, but I anticipated school problems well in advance. I'd watch my DD2 put her letters in alphabetical order, then turn to my DW and say, "What are we going to do with her when it's time to go to school?"

Two years into school, we're still asking the same question.

I'm often amazed at how eager school officials are to show off how deeply they just don't get it.

In our ongoing and ultimately fruitless crusade to get DD7 a grade skip, we brought in the district gifted coordinator, and she actually made the argument about breast development. Honestly, I should have won an award for not laughing in her face.

You have a lot of company in that regard.

At least we have this forum.

Keep on truckin'....

Michelle,
I agree with Val et al. We have had a lot of frustration with DD8's teachers this year but somewhat happily more the not-doing-stuff part than the snarky part (at least to our faces). We were also promised 'advanced' math in October and it didn't happen until January, when they finally arranged to have their *on-staff* math person work with DD. Far too little, far too late--although it did have the positive effect of motivating us to continue IMACS and to start EPGY outside of school, which I think is the best thing for now for our DD. School for next year is still up in the air, thanks in part to these same teachers, but at least DD has had some great teachers in the past so we know where the bar should be.
Best of luck in dealing with these losers.


And...sorry to keep going OT, but:
I have to say, I have not heard this argument against grade-skipping yet and don't understand it--is that idea that a particular individual might have too much development, or not enough, or either depending on the circumstances? My impression from my own time in school many years ago is that there is a lot of variation in said development between different individuals (both in timing and end results) so that I can't imagine anyone would believe this should be a reason for or against grade-skipping on its own. And even if this person thought it was true, does that mean that kids generally who are more or less developed than others should be grade-skipped (or held back, respectively)? Because that would seem to be what such a rule would mean. Very strange. Perhaps the coordinator was using this as shorthand for "there are developmental issues that affect social interaction that might make grade-skipping a bad idea," or maybe (assuming from your nickname that you are a man) she was trying to embarrass you into shutting up by mentioning your daughter's development--although I would hate to think that of anyone at any school.

The gist of the argument is that DD might possibly feel socially inadequate and/or be made fun of later on when her peers start developing breasts and she isn't.


As an alternative to laughing in her face, I quite politely and straight-facedly pointed this out to her... breast development happens at a wide range of ages, DD could be a very early or very late developer, and in any case planning for it is a waste of time. It was a very effective argument, but as we've come to discover, very effective arguments don't matter. These people have made up their minds before the conversation even begins, and the entire purpose of the meeting is to placate us.

Both sides failed. We didn't convince them, and they didn't placate us.


My sense was that she was offering it as one of a number of potential social issues, and obviously she wasn't doing a good job with her previous arguments if she ended up falling back to this position.

If she was trying to make me stop talking, she failed. I was the only male in the room, and it didn't make me blush or shy away in the slightest. Anyway, DW was there to take up the torch on that argument if I didn't. I did a better job of hiding my emotional reaction to this line of discussion... DW was quite audibly and visibly taken aback.

The sad thing is that this woman is admittedly the mother of a high school-aged gifted underachiever, and she quite agreed that the situation my DD is currently facing is how the road to gifted underachievement begins.

Breast development?!?!?! Wow. Wrong on so many levels. And I thought MY child's teachers had some crazy ideas . . .

So the only kids who can be grade-skipped are the ones with early developing breasts? That would certainly do something to alleviate the social anxieties of the late bloomers, I suppose. Let's not organize school according to brains, because breasts are a better method. Isn't that discriminatory against boys?

Wow. I thought the "He isn't paying attention in class" argument was bad. Suddenly I feel like the situation at my son's school is downright manageable.
Set up a meeting with the principal, teacher, teacher's assistant, and AIG teacher to discuss this matter. Is there anyone else I should include?

My poor dd10.... She is so tiny she gets confused with 5 year olds until she talks....we fear that she will be in a booster seat to drive...if Breast Development is the measure of educational maturity...my baby is in BIG TROUBLE!!

That sounds fine. Good for you for calling a meeting. Can you bring a 'friend in a suit' to witness any public snark? Be prepared to take notes, and stock up on chocolate and videos.

Love and more Love,
Grinity

OK, I really have tried my best to resist a snide remark but I can't....

Here goes...

If grade acceleration and intellectual maturity were based on breast development....

I would still be in 3rd grade.

Along with most of the males I know

polarbear, back to hopefully being helpful now!

I'm so glad for this thread. I now understand that the blocked searches I found this morning on my almost-teenage son's computer were not his blooming curiosity about the opposite gender but was instead his quest to find really, really smart girls.

Ok, seriously, dumbest argument yet.

I just looove the comments, ladies, they are great.

I'm curious about the woman with the underachieving high-school student? Male or female? Reason for underachievement being that he/she has been incorrectly placed based on physical development?

Anyway Michelle6 good luck. In the past, I've chewed a huge wad of gum for about 10-15 minutes before I got to a school meeting I was nervous about. Get rid of it before the meeting, of course.

Male.

And, quite likely. As a gifted male myself, I'll be the first to admit that we have a different set of challenges. There is a decidedly physical element to our socialization patterns.

Plus, this locale is noted for widespread red-shirting.

I guess no one worries about early breast or facial hair development among red-shirted kids.

Been working on this email for a couple of days - it's going to his teacher AND principal. Before I sent it, I wanted to get some feedback from people who may be a bit more experienced than me in dealing with these issues. I still feel that it doesn't make my point entirely, but I'm not sure how to do it without alienating the very people in a position to help my son! Thanks in advance!

Ms Ferry,
I'm sorry to keep going on and on about this, but I am seriously concerned about Andrew's total lack of a challenge at school. As I have said before, I know you have a lot of students in your class, and can not possibly cater to all of them. However, I have spoken to you several times this year about how to challenge him in school, and it seems to me that very little is actually being done. Andrew tells me he rarely does the more advanced math that he was promised. We talked about giving him homework that was different - and that lasted about a week before he was right back to doing the exact same sheets he did last year. Monday I pulled out his old workbook from last year - he not only did all of this week's worksheets last year, but he had the exact same answers. So he is not even improving from the last time he did this! I hate to ever say that a child is wasting his time in school - but in this case, I sincerely believe that he is. Please keep in mind that I am not holding you entirely responsible for this. I know that part of it is due to scheduling issues, which is why he was not able to do third grade math this year, and part of it is simply that the North Carolina curriculum is built on the assumption that second graders simply can not do any more than they are already doing. I find that assumption utterly ridiculous, and there is no doubt in my mind there are other students in the same situation as Andrew - bored to tears and unable to do anything about it.
Research has shown over and over again that it is extremely important for a child to be stimulated in early grades, so that they learn the skills needed to do well when things get more difficult later on. As someone who was never challenged until well into high school, I can personally tell you how difficult it is to learn how to work hard at something when you are 15 years old and have never had to do that before. I am not asking you to turn my child into a genius - just that he has to occasionally do something that may be only slightly outside his comfort zone.
My first instinct was to let this go, and start fresh at the beginning of next year. But this has been an ongoing problem for the nearly two years Andrew has been at BCE. While I do, for the most part, think Blue Creek is a good school, I also think they sometimes get so carried away with ensuring that everyone is keeping up (don't get me wrong, this SHOULD absolutely be a priority) that they lose track of the fact that some kids are not getting the education that they need and deserve. In the past year and a half, Andrew has gone from a child who loved school, to one who has little interest in going to school and would rather stay home and have me teach him new concepts. He has all but stopped putting effort into his assignments, because quite honestly, he has been working on the same material for two solid years. I am not, by any means, excusing his lack of focus. But can we blame him? He genuinely believes that everyone thinks he is stupid because they don't think he can do anything he has not already learned. (Those are his words, not mine).
My point is that something needs to be done. I realize this is a large problem in almost every school, and my child is far from the only one having this problem. But I also realize that I have no access to those other children. My son (and my daughter, when the time comes) are the only ones for whom I have the power to advocate, and I intend to do so. If we need another conference, just let me know and I will be there. If there is another program for him (I should add that he LOVES his AIG class, but that doesn't account for the other 34 hours of the week that he spends at school) let me know and I will consider it. For that matter, if there is something that I personally can do to help, I will be glad to do so. But SOMETHING needs to be done.
I would appreciate if someone would either email me, or call me XXX-XXXX and let me know if there are any options available for Andrew. Thanks in advance!
Sincerely,
Michelle

oops...posted too soon. I am so sorry you have had such difficulty getting your son's needs met. The advice I would give about the e-mail would be to make it more concise, and break it into paragraphs. Other than that I think there are others here who can give much better input. I think as it stands, while I totally agree with you that you have valid points, perhaps you could adjust your tone in the hopes of getting a more productive response from the teacher. I would also say try to stick closely to facts, if possible. But I also think the things I bolded are what struck me, and hopefully would get the teacher's and principal's attn. I also think you must get the book From Emotions to Advocacy. It is well worth the investment. Good luck, your son is fortunate to have you in his corner!

I'm going to put on my "bureaucrat" hat and think about this.

My first emotional reaction is *aaaaahhhhh!* another complaint!

Wow, this is long. I can't possibly read it. It sounds like it's attacking me, personally!

My head hurts.

I think I will ignore this and see if the problem magically goes away.

You're in North Carolina, which means you're in one of the states with a legislative mandate for gifted services. I recommend you use this as your primary weapon: http://ftp.legislature.state.nc.us/...DF/ByArticle/Chapter_115C/Article_9B.pdf

In particular:
And the key phrase there is "appropriate services," because obviously if you can show that your child is doing the exact same work this year as he was last year, they have failed to provide him with appropriate services. That becomes a phrase you use frequently in dealing with the school, because it lets them know that they have a legal obligation, and you know it, so they'd better fulfill it.

Also, I'd drop all that language about "I know you have a lot of students in your class, and can not possibly cater to all of them," because according to that law, in the case of any academically or intellectually gifted child, the school is very much required to do just that.

Pull up the local school board's policies for gifted services to see what the specific plan is.

First, I know you have already received some good suggestions here, but I would suggest that you start a new thread for this topic.

Next,the letter is a bit long and accusatory. I know this is all very frustrating (and we have all been there) but I would send a short note requesting a meeting (ie I would like to touch base to see how you think he is progressing and get some insight on how to plan for next year) Before you have the meeting, I recommend that you read this document. http://print.ditd.org/young_scholars/Guidebooks/Davidson_Guidebook_Advocating.pdf

I think it will help you frame your issues and think about other possible options for your DS. Good luck.

Dear Michelle,
I can totally sympathize with the emotions that clearly come through in your letter, but please consider re-casting this letter to emphasize 1) the mythical awesomeness of the teacher and 2) your (also mythical) desire to please the teacher while helping your son to get what he needs. I do not mean to offend in any way, but having dealt with such teacher(s) this year I can tell you that being direct with such people (at least in our experience) and telling them they should be doing more (even if glaringly true) only causes them to dig in their heels and if it comes to that to try to show other faculty/administration how difficult you and/or your child are to deal with (even if all objective evidence is to the contrary). At least in public school you can't get kicked out--Hooray!! But remember your ultimate goal is to get a desirable end result for your kid. If it were me, I might think about reworking it a little to read something similar in spirit to:

Dear Ms. Ferry,
I so appreciate the effort you have made to accommodate DS and particularly the time he spends in his AIG class. You are indeed God's gift to teaching. Unfortunately, I am very concerned because I have been hearing from DS more and more that he does not like school because he does not find it challenging enough--and indeed, he is actually doing the same worksheets that he was doing last year (and still getting them right), so I can understand his frustration. I know that we both want what is best for him, and I know you are so very busy with x kids and would love to do whatever I can to help you--could I perhaps [monitor the lunchroom; bring you an apple every day; bring you coffee] to help the classroom move more smoothly so that you have more time to focus on the kids? I am very concerned that this repetitive material is actually causing DS's lack of focus in school and I very much do not want him to develop a negative attitude towards school and learning. I would be happy to meet with you to discuss any way that I can help.
Your devoted servant,
MI6

I sincerely hope I have not offended in any way. I think it is *ridiculous* (if not downright disgusting) that one might best approach the problem this way, but in our experience even indirectly telling somebody (at least in the South, or at least in NC where we also live!) that they should be doing something just does not get the results you want (even in private school, even when there are two teachers in the classroom. BTW, one of our teachers always finds the time to mention a) how smart her own daughter is and b) how many kids they have in the classroom--but of course she always forgets to divide by 2 because she and the other teacher are co-teachers, not a class where there is a teacher and an 'assistant.') Anyway, please just consider something along these lines, if you feel like you can stomach it (and have the time, etc.). All I can say is that I think being direct, although I agree it absolutely should work, may not. Of course, being indirect may not work either, but I think it has a better shot. Unfortunately I could not do the above with our present teachers with a straight face--although fortunately DD has had teachers where I could have said something similar and absolutely meant it.

Best of luck with this! I very much hope you can find a good solution for you and your DS. And I apologize if anyone was offended--just my opinion, based on our personal experience (that I wish very much had been different).

P.S. I should have added, hopefully the sarcasm in the draft/suggested letter was readily apparent--and must be toned down to be believable. That's just my way of getting through some of this type of stuff. Sorry!

I have written emails like this to get my anger and frustration out and then I have promptly thrown them away. You asked for feedback so I am going to be honest and hope not to offend. I believe that your email will be seen as an attack that will elicit a defensive response. You need to give them the facts briefly and try as much as possible to take the anger and frustration out. Using your son's words, tell them that your primary grade student does not want to go to school and thinks that his teacher doesn't believe in his abilities. After that, solicit her help in solving the problem together. Maybe you could bring up the repetitive curriculum in that context.

I'm with the others in urging you not to send that email. Wrightslaw does educational advocacy, mostly for children with disabilities and 2E, but I think the ideas from this "letter to a stranger" might help you reframe how you want to deal with the school in order to get them to meet your son's needs. It discusses how to get the school on your side.

http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/Letter_to_Stranger.html

Your letter should probably reference your state law pertaining to the rights of gifted students, and ask for a meeting to discuss how the school is meeting your child's needs based on the state law.

I would definite express concern that he is doing the same math he did last year. But it's so late in the year-- can you create a plan to challenge him through the year? Will he be ready for 4th grade math next year, since he basically hasn't had any new math instruction for an entire year? (That is such an unacceptable situation! Even if math schedules didn't match up with the 3rd grade, he should have been doing 3rd grade math.)

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I knew it wasn't where it should be. I am not, by nature, a confrontational person - and now that I'm kind of being forced to be one, I am finding that I'm just not very good at it. You would never guess I paid for my first two years of college on a debate scholarship, would you? I'll take all of this into account and rewrite it before I send it. Thanks again!

I agree the email is very good but I know that people can tend to "tune out" the longer a letter is. I do daily appeals to insurance companies on medical claims and I always try to keep it to 3 paragraphs.

1st Paragraph - What the problem is.
2nd Paragraph - The reasons it shouldn't be a problem.
3rd Paragraph - How I would like the problem resolved.

I can tell by the email how passionate you are about your son and advocating for him. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and hope to see a happy update soon.