Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school Sleep issues

As Grinity mentioned melatonin can be a big help.

We just got this worked out with DS5. He has always had trouble getting to sleep. He would spend hours in bed quietly whispering to himself about ideas and events. We tried everything suggested in this thread and elsewhere and it just didn't work. I could count the number of times between age 2 and 5.5 when he got to sleep in under an hour and a half on two hands. After Christmas it dawned on me that this wasn't really a behavior issue but a sleep disorder... We started giving him ~200micrograms of melatonin(half a pill from Trader Joes). Now he lays down after stories and is asleep in under 10 minutes every time. If we skip the pill, it is the old routine until we give him the pill. This has been a miracle drug for us. One disclaimer, DS is 2e(either asd or add) and these groups are thought to underproduce melatonin so your results may vary. Regardless, its cheap and easy to try.

I will second (or third? fourth?) the music idea. I think, though, that a lot of it is simply inborn. We actually ARE one of those families who are very into routine. My kids (well, not the 21- and 19-year old, but the 11 and 10 year olds) go to bed the same time almost 365 days a year. We've had the same routine in place pretty much their entire lives. It's snack, pjs, teeth, shower/bath if needed, and read for half an hour. We don't use electronics before bed, we do everything that the sleep specialists suggest. Ds11 takes after dh and can turn his palms up, take three deep breaths, and he is out like a light. Ds10 has a mind that keeps going and going. The older kids were like this too - one is still a horrible sleeper and one is quite good. Ds10 is just getting to the point where he is sleeping better and more consistently. The CDs made for sleep (supposedly in tune with your sleep brain rhythms but at the least relaxing music) really did help. Someone lying with him helped enormously too, but of course, that can get old. I honestly think that it's no surprise that my two more creative, less-structured, fanciful kids are the ones with trouble sleeping.
I don't know how creative I was as a kid, but I had the same problems. I used to call my dad collect at 2am (my parents were divorced and my mom and stepdad were too busy and tired to put up with this nonsense) to ask questions about death, or the universe, or God (this explains why I pretty much forgive any parenting mistakes my dad has made - what parent puts up with years of 2am collect calls, lol??).
Massage also helped with both my bad sleepers - again, time from a parent, but it does seem to really relax them. I guess the good news is that when I thought it would never improve, it finally did. So, if you survive another six or seven years, you too can have a passably good (but not great) sleeper. Sorry.

I don't know, others might have a better answer, but what you describe sounds a "little bit more" serious or intense than just a little guy having a vivid dream that upsets him now and again or being overtired. Does he worry about his family being dead while he is awake (does he talk about this?) You don't say how old your son is, was he as old as say momtofour was when she called her dad collect (certain ages more likely for the types of things she was questioning or thinking about than others?) Since he's still outgrowing naps he can't be that old, younger than a kindergartener maybe?

Anyway that would require quite alot of talking and comfort and maybe a bigger plan I would think. Have you ever asked his doctor, or if he's done testing (for giftedness?) asked the psychologist?

I love the music idea for going to sleep (or back to sleep) but for my DD it seemed to stimulate her brain more, and had the opposite affect...she's end up more wide awake than ever.

bzylzy - he is four and he does talk about his concerns while awake. Death is just a part of his concern. He doesn't want to grow up. This is how he explains it: "I was a baby and now I am a little boy. The "baby me" is gone. Forever. I don't want the "little boy" me to go away like that. When I am an "older boy" I won't be the same. I won't think about things the same, or look the same or like the same things. It is like the "me" that I am right now dies more everyday I get older."
I talked to the psychologist about it. He said to tell him he can stay young at heart and that he doesn't have to change. I tried. He seemed skeptical.
He doesn't go around talking about this stuff all the time. He is chipper almost all the time.

Yes he sounds quite gifted. When my daughter was 4 and 5 she used to ask or talk about death more often, not depressed but practical. She still goes through stages where she is afraid to grow up. Everything is just that more intense and scary for them. I guess it's just part of their profile. As long as they're chipper most of the time. It's nice that you are concerned, these kids sure do require special handling!

KJP I just remembered (I had blocked out this difficult stretch) that Oct. of her last grade the teacher and aide really emphasized breast cancer awareness week (2nd grade...) and day after day for a few weeks my DD was upset after school about how many people get sick, they have to battle this disease, and she was going back and forth between being overly attached to me and then attacking me (verbally) and worried about how long I was going to be around and saying we don't really know how long anyone will be around etc.

So you never know what will strike these kids and it really is so hard for them and emotionally draining for their parents too.

I don't make any promises that I'll always be around (I had an uncle that died suddenly when I was a child and I thought he was "indestructable" but I learned the hard way that nobody is!) but I don't say, "yep, anyone could go any minute!" I just say you have to treat your family and friends well, do your best and enjoy each day.

Part 1 is a success!
I wanted him actually sleeping at 8:30 and tonight it happened. Tonight he had a big dinner, a bit of playing, a bath, a book with me, some free time in bed with his books, a back rub and then sleep. No "meaning of life" discussions tonight. I am going to look into the calming music for the nights he has trouble winding down.
My husband thinks the lack of sun light we experience in the northwest messes with his sleep so it will be interesting to see if things improve with better weather, longer days and more outside play.
Now if only we can get through the night. Him coming down the hallway to get a cuddle and go back to sleep is fine. Him coming down the hallway to get a cuddle and talk for two hours is not cool at all. Crossing my fingers!

Yay! Glory in your success (it'll help buffer the nights it's not so easy).

The chatting thing - unless it's to work out some of those more scary issues from a vivid dream - what we did is gently but firmly redirect without engaging. "I am looking forward to hearing about that in the morning, but I can't tonight. Remember that it's time for bed..." followed by a retucking in. When they didn't get the engagement they wanted, the forays dwindled away until they mostly stopped.

Raising gifted kids is such a challenge from the very beginning, but they're a joy as well.

I have pretty much had non-stop sleep issues with DS2.5. He also has vivid dreams and nightmares. For him, I found that reading a book during the day about kids dealing with nightmares was helpful, although the ones my DS likes are probably too young for your son (There's a Nightmare in My Closet, There's an Alligator Under My Bed, or There's Something in My Attic, all by Mercer Mayer). We also do a lot of pretend play during the day where he is the heroic monster-slayer, or whatever is on his mind that day. Our favorite new phrase is "what are you thinking about?"

Bedtime has been a fight for awhile at our house. DS sleeps the soonest, best, and longest on days he's had enough intellectual and physical input, but not too close to bedtime. I was beginning to think he was just a natural night owl, sleeping midnight to 9 am, but surprisingly, the last few days he's been taking me upstairs early, saying, "I tired, I go to sleep now." I think for him the aha! moment that bed isn't a bad thing came because we're staying with a family that has 4 children (6-16) who go to bed early without a fuss. I don't know for sure, but whatever it was, I'm grateful and hope it lasts once we get home.

Regarding growing up, my DS gets really frustrated by being small and not being able to do things, so I was talking with him recently about the fact that eventually he'll be as big as everyone else. Afterwards he told me that when he's a man, "I no be (name) anymore." I tried to explain that he'll always be himself, but I'm not sure he really got it. When we talk, I rarely know how he puts the pieces together in his head, so it's hard for me to know how much info he needs for a clear picture, but not an overwhelming one, since his intellectual reach far surpasses his emotional immaturity.