Any tips on calming an active preschool mind at bedtime? My little guy has trouble getting to sleep and falling back to sleep after a vivid dream.

I don't know your particular circumstances, so I'm not sure if this will work for you, but I finally gave up on trying to calm my kiddos and make them keep "regularly accepted" hours. I was a stay at home mom, though, so if they were tired, they just fell asleep early for morning nap.

What I did was set up some ground rules:

You must go to bed when you're told. This is not up for negotiation.

You must get completely ready for bed, crawl under the covers, get goodnight kisses and have a book read to you while you are laying in bed. (They especially liked that this was a rule, because they could make sure it was "enforced" on nights I wanted to skip the story.)

If you cannot sleep, you may play quietly with a toy in your bed, look at a book in your bed, or sing quietly (my kids did not share a room).

You may only come out of your room once to go to the bathroom. If you come out after that without being sick or unless there is an emergency (they often got quite creative about what constituted an emergency), you will lose a privilege tomorrow - and I get to pick what you lose.

Believe it or not, it worked for me. To me, there is nothing worse than the torture of laying in a dark room, mind racing, and not being able to do something to calm it all down. So by giving them boundaries that let them find ways to work through their creativity when they couldn't sleep but didn't stimulate - like getting up and playing - they learned to calm themselves. Some nights I would hear one of them singing at 11 pm, but eventually it would stop and they would sleep. Those are now very precious memories.

If you're on a schedule that requires the kiddos be on a schedule as well, then this tactic might still work - you just have to start the bedtime ritual soon enough that all the playing, getting out of bed to go to the bathroom, singing, etc. ends early enough that they get the sleep they need. Just be firm, don't waver on your boundaries, be consistent but not angry, and negotiate if something seems to be a real problem. If they feel like they've gained a tiny bit of control over their situation, it's amazing how much more willing they are to live within the negotiated boundaries.

These are two separate questions:

1) How to get a kid to go to sleep?

and

2) How to calm a kid down after a vivid dream/nightmare?

The short answer to the first question is: routine.

The most common reason why my kiddo can't get to sleep at bedtime is because she's not tired. Maybe she stayed up too late the night before and slept too late in the morning. Maybe she took a nap earlier that went too long. Maybe she's just full of pent-up physical energy because she's been cooped up all day. Or maybe she's full of nervous/excitement energy because of something happening tomorrow.

Setting and sticking to a daily routine (bed/nap/meal/play times) eliminates the first three sources of a sleep problem. Turning bedtime into a daily routine, where it's a predictable process that happens every night, can make giant strides in eliminating the last one.

Lest you be misled into thinking this is coming from the perspective of one of those people who writes out every minute of his day into a Franklin planner a week ahead of time, I'm not saying that this has to be a rigid schedule, because life is unpredictable and kids especially so. Some general guidelines will do... DS should wake up at about x:00, and take a nap around y:00 for roughly zz minutes, etc. Then just observe and adjust as necessary.

One short answer for the second question is: talk.

A vivid dream will especially affect a gifted child, because of emotional sensitivity. Your DS will be unable to get to sleep because he's in an emotional state that prevents it. Therefore, the goal is to bring him out of that emotional state and into a calm one. One effective method is to simply talk about the dream. Point out what's silly in it. Discuss some similar dreams you might have had. Under all the conversation, there are some distinct messages you want to convey:

- It's just a dream, it's not real, and it can't hurt you.
- This is all very normal, everyone experiences this.

Sometimes this helps the kid gain perspective and look at the dream a different way... but sometimes it doesn't, because as your gifted child remembers an experience, he physiologically relives the emotions. So my second short answer to this question is: redirect. Read him another story, or allow him to read one on his own if he's doing that already. Let him snuggle up with you for a while and watch some TV. Whatever gets his mind off the dream and lets him calm down.

And then, the next day... beware. Because now you've taught him that a nightmare leads to specific comforting actions, and you can be sure he'll try to fake it sometime later in the future in order to obtain those rewards. Parenting these kids is so much fun, innit?

Calming at bedtime before going to sleep? I remember when DD12 was small and couldn't/wouldn't sleep... Sometimes she'd refuse to even 'though we could see she was exhausted. Maybe this is the case with your child?

Usually, in my experience with DD12, reading helped. Especially adventure picture books, with long words: kind of lulled her. Singing is good, too - not just baby songs. Ballads: she used to love Fairport Convention songs and sometimes her dad would play a music tape.

This is more an answer to question 2: Cryallnight maybe has bad dreams... much of the time, I don't know as she's not very verbal. The name is in fact ironic, although it's true that when she cries she won't stop. Walking up and down with her in my arms talking to her about my day helps her - and me... Not sure how old your tot is, so maybe this isn't an option, but I'd say reading and singing are always good...

Love it ABQmom!

Short add that we had to discontinue preBed reading sooner than I would have liked because it got DS too stimulated. Wierdly, 'stupid tv' worked better to calm that brain.

Also - I found out the hard way that there IS such a thing as overtired. Our DS woke up at the same time no matter when he went to sleep, and getting him calm enough to fall asleep was much much easier at an earlier time slot than after he had 'caught his second wind.'

When he was older, Melatonin worked wonders.

Some gifted kids 'need' less sleep. Some gifted kids need the regular amount of sleep, but just can't calm down that brain to get there. Routines, rules, limits as outlined above are wonderful and will work with many gifted kids. But it takes a confident, consistient, determined parent - which I so wasn't at the time. My kid taught me!

Smiles,
Grinity

KJP...I could have written your post!

DS 4 has a very difficult time falling asleep. Like ABQMom, we've started allowing reading at bedtime. I've found with DS, adding privileges works much better than taking away things as a consequence. So, we added a dimmer switch to his lamp that he can control...on the condition that he stays in bed except for trips to the bathroom. It's worked so far, although it's a combination of reading/singing. I've also found that he needs a consistent wake up time. Even letting him sleep in an extra 30 minutes will make for a more difficult sleep time.

We also use the "Indigo Dreams" relaxation CD. I'm not sure how much it "relaxes" him at bedtime, but he is used to the routine, and when we traveled over the winter holidays, it helped him calm down in the unfamiliar hotel room.

As for the vivid dreams, I crawled into bed with him at 6:00 this morning to calm him down. (When he was still in his crib, we'd pat his back and try to say soothing things until he fell back asleep.)

As a child I coped with vivid nightmares by crawling into my parents bed. Worked like a charm (parents are invincible entities that can protect you from anything, up to and including the heat death of the universe).

As a teen (when the above mentioned parental bed stopped being an option) I taught myself to redirect dreams to better endings. Doesn't work 100%, but I can usually get back to sleep within a reasonable time frame. I have tried to explain to DS5 (nightmares, afraid of the dark) how to do it -- not sure it is really working for him at this age.

For advice about calming a child after having vivid dreams (from someone who always had them as a child, and it was definitely not an option to get in bed with parents or have mom come into bed), I would say drinking water absolutely helps (if you haven't tried that) and rubbing their back is a really good idea. And just firm reassurance that it was not real and they are safe in their beds. A flashlight, nightlight or one of those things that puts the stars on the ceilings is a good distraction after you've left them. Sitting up for a few minutes in bed helps get that distance between the memory of the dream and being back to reality. But if you don't want it to turn into some manipulative thing, being constructive (water, assurance) but firm and leaving them to it is probably best.

When I was older my sister simply hurled a pillow at my head and that got me back to reality pretty fast. Of course a sister can get away with that...

I did this successfully when I was five, with the coaching of older brothers. I've tried coaching my DD7 to do this since she was five, and she has yet to pull it off.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

As for falling asleep:

I think part of the problem is that he is at an age where sometimes he needs a nap and sometimes he doesn't. If he takes one, he stays up forever and if he doesn't he often gets overtired.
I like the music idea. I might get something for his room.
Books used to relax him. Now they seem to give him too much to think about. He is into creating his own "fanfiction". He makes up stories about characters from different books and shows working together or against each other in new situations. I think I will try to get a set routine, start it at the same time every night and see how it goes
On waking up:
His boogeymen include the "Black Man" who he describes as a "thick shadow" that can move all over the room and the "Scary Cats" who are black with "gray rainbow eyes that swirl like oil on a sidewalk".
He also has really horrible dreams about every being dead but him. Obviously when he has a dream like this he needs to check on everyone in the family to see if we are alive. He has the hardest time after dreams like this. In general he is very concerned about the people he loves growing old and leaving him and I think these dreams are an extension of that. When he was three our 17 year old dog died and ever since then getting older has bothered him. He has always been welcomed to get in bed with us if he is scared. Threats about staying in his room have not resulted in more rest for him. We just find him sprawled out asleep in the morning with all the lights on in his room holding a toy sword. We have tried rewards and it works for a while but lately he has said he doesn't want to work on staying in bed.

He doesn't have a night light but sleeps with his door open and the bathroom light on so he isn't in complete darkness.

As Grinity mentioned melatonin can be a big help.

We just got this worked out with DS5. He has always had trouble getting to sleep. He would spend hours in bed quietly whispering to himself about ideas and events. We tried everything suggested in this thread and elsewhere and it just didn't work. I could count the number of times between age 2 and 5.5 when he got to sleep in under an hour and a half on two hands. After Christmas it dawned on me that this wasn't really a behavior issue but a sleep disorder... We started giving him ~200micrograms of melatonin(half a pill from Trader Joes). Now he lays down after stories and is asleep in under 10 minutes every time. If we skip the pill, it is the old routine until we give him the pill. This has been a miracle drug for us. One disclaimer, DS is 2e(either asd or add) and these groups are thought to underproduce melatonin so your results may vary. Regardless, its cheap and easy to try.

I will second (or third? fourth?) the music idea. I think, though, that a lot of it is simply inborn. We actually ARE one of those families who are very into routine. My kids (well, not the 21- and 19-year old, but the 11 and 10 year olds) go to bed the same time almost 365 days a year. We've had the same routine in place pretty much their entire lives. It's snack, pjs, teeth, shower/bath if needed, and read for half an hour. We don't use electronics before bed, we do everything that the sleep specialists suggest. Ds11 takes after dh and can turn his palms up, take three deep breaths, and he is out like a light. Ds10 has a mind that keeps going and going. The older kids were like this too - one is still a horrible sleeper and one is quite good. Ds10 is just getting to the point where he is sleeping better and more consistently. The CDs made for sleep (supposedly in tune with your sleep brain rhythms but at the least relaxing music) really did help. Someone lying with him helped enormously too, but of course, that can get old. I honestly think that it's no surprise that my two more creative, less-structured, fanciful kids are the ones with trouble sleeping.
I don't know how creative I was as a kid, but I had the same problems. I used to call my dad collect at 2am (my parents were divorced and my mom and stepdad were too busy and tired to put up with this nonsense) to ask questions about death, or the universe, or God (this explains why I pretty much forgive any parenting mistakes my dad has made - what parent puts up with years of 2am collect calls, lol??).
Massage also helped with both my bad sleepers - again, time from a parent, but it does seem to really relax them. I guess the good news is that when I thought it would never improve, it finally did. So, if you survive another six or seven years, you too can have a passably good (but not great) sleeper. Sorry.

I don't know, others might have a better answer, but what you describe sounds a "little bit more" serious or intense than just a little guy having a vivid dream that upsets him now and again or being overtired. Does he worry about his family being dead while he is awake (does he talk about this?) You don't say how old your son is, was he as old as say momtofour was when she called her dad collect (certain ages more likely for the types of things she was questioning or thinking about than others?) Since he's still outgrowing naps he can't be that old, younger than a kindergartener maybe?

Anyway that would require quite alot of talking and comfort and maybe a bigger plan I would think. Have you ever asked his doctor, or if he's done testing (for giftedness?) asked the psychologist?

I love the music idea for going to sleep (or back to sleep) but for my DD it seemed to stimulate her brain more, and had the opposite affect...she's end up more wide awake than ever.

bzylzy - he is four and he does talk about his concerns while awake. Death is just a part of his concern. He doesn't want to grow up. This is how he explains it: "I was a baby and now I am a little boy. The "baby me" is gone. Forever. I don't want the "little boy" me to go away like that. When I am an "older boy" I won't be the same. I won't think about things the same, or look the same or like the same things. It is like the "me" that I am right now dies more everyday I get older."
I talked to the psychologist about it. He said to tell him he can stay young at heart and that he doesn't have to change. I tried. He seemed skeptical.
He doesn't go around talking about this stuff all the time. He is chipper almost all the time.

Yes he sounds quite gifted. When my daughter was 4 and 5 she used to ask or talk about death more often, not depressed but practical. She still goes through stages where she is afraid to grow up. Everything is just that more intense and scary for them. I guess it's just part of their profile. As long as they're chipper most of the time. It's nice that you are concerned, these kids sure do require special handling!

KJP I just remembered (I had blocked out this difficult stretch) that Oct. of her last grade the teacher and aide really emphasized breast cancer awareness week (2nd grade...) and day after day for a few weeks my DD was upset after school about how many people get sick, they have to battle this disease, and she was going back and forth between being overly attached to me and then attacking me (verbally) and worried about how long I was going to be around and saying we don't really know how long anyone will be around etc.

So you never know what will strike these kids and it really is so hard for them and emotionally draining for their parents too.

I don't make any promises that I'll always be around (I had an uncle that died suddenly when I was a child and I thought he was "indestructable" but I learned the hard way that nobody is!) but I don't say, "yep, anyone could go any minute!" I just say you have to treat your family and friends well, do your best and enjoy each day.

Part 1 is a success!
I wanted him actually sleeping at 8:30 and tonight it happened. Tonight he had a big dinner, a bit of playing, a bath, a book with me, some free time in bed with his books, a back rub and then sleep. No "meaning of life" discussions tonight. I am going to look into the calming music for the nights he has trouble winding down.
My husband thinks the lack of sun light we experience in the northwest messes with his sleep so it will be interesting to see if things improve with better weather, longer days and more outside play.
Now if only we can get through the night. Him coming down the hallway to get a cuddle and go back to sleep is fine. Him coming down the hallway to get a cuddle and talk for two hours is not cool at all. Crossing my fingers!

Yay! Glory in your success (it'll help buffer the nights it's not so easy).

The chatting thing - unless it's to work out some of those more scary issues from a vivid dream - what we did is gently but firmly redirect without engaging. "I am looking forward to hearing about that in the morning, but I can't tonight. Remember that it's time for bed..." followed by a retucking in. When they didn't get the engagement they wanted, the forays dwindled away until they mostly stopped.

Raising gifted kids is such a challenge from the very beginning, but they're a joy as well.

I have pretty much had non-stop sleep issues with DS2.5. He also has vivid dreams and nightmares. For him, I found that reading a book during the day about kids dealing with nightmares was helpful, although the ones my DS likes are probably too young for your son (There's a Nightmare in My Closet, There's an Alligator Under My Bed, or There's Something in My Attic, all by Mercer Mayer). We also do a lot of pretend play during the day where he is the heroic monster-slayer, or whatever is on his mind that day. Our favorite new phrase is "what are you thinking about?"

Bedtime has been a fight for awhile at our house. DS sleeps the soonest, best, and longest on days he's had enough intellectual and physical input, but not too close to bedtime. I was beginning to think he was just a natural night owl, sleeping midnight to 9 am, but surprisingly, the last few days he's been taking me upstairs early, saying, "I tired, I go to sleep now." I think for him the aha! moment that bed isn't a bad thing came because we're staying with a family that has 4 children (6-16) who go to bed early without a fuss. I don't know for sure, but whatever it was, I'm grateful and hope it lasts once we get home.

Regarding growing up, my DS gets really frustrated by being small and not being able to do things, so I was talking with him recently about the fact that eventually he'll be as big as everyone else. Afterwards he told me that when he's a man, "I no be (name) anymore." I tried to explain that he'll always be himself, but I'm not sure he really got it. When we talk, I rarely know how he puts the pieces together in his head, so it's hard for me to know how much info he needs for a clear picture, but not an overwhelming one, since his intellectual reach far surpasses his emotional immaturity.

DD 13 was the child that never slept. Contrary to popular ways, neither of my kids take showers or baths near bed time. I take a shower in the morning to wake up and that's what it does for both my kids in the evening. When my kids miss naps I use showers or baths to give me that extra nudge I need to make it through. For DD13 they are great study breaks..she returns refreshed.

With DD13 we instigated an evening discussion of one thing that made u sad today and one thing that made u happy. This was to help her learn that the emotions can change significantly. It gave her insight on a meta level when she felt consumed by the individual feelings. This to shall pass... It seemed to help but who knows maybe it was just time.

We used to turn off all the lights in the bedrooms and go out in the barely-lit hallway and read aloud from a chapter book. Both children could hear the story. Worked well at our house. We actually did it a few times at sleepover parties we were hosting and...wonder of wonders...all the children fell asleep!


lol about the "calming bath" before bedtime. Anytime we tried that, they'd be running laps around the house.

Well I would call last night a success. He didn't stay in his bed but he didn't wake anyone by coming down the hall. He must have been very quiet and fallen back to sleep right away.

My son was five and in kindergarten when his dad was diagnosed with cancer. He thought it meant death but we told him the doctors would do surgery to remove it. This was about six months after his grandmother, who lived next door to us, had surgery complications that left her with brain damage and needing full time care the rest of her life. My son was worried and had trouble sleeping, but then he always had trouble sleeping. It is very hard to turn your mind off when there is so much to deal with.

He still has trouble sleeping at age 13. He has his own health issues to worry about now. A television in his room helps him fall asleep. I had always heard that a television in the bedroom was a bad thing but we had tried everything else and it does seem to help a little.

Hi,
Your little guy sounds *so* sensitive (and smart!)--hopefully not in line for existential depression later in life (I think this is also discussed by Dabrowski but I am not sure).
FWIW, similar to an earlier poster, I heard a segment on NPR recently about U.S soldiers returning home and a program trying to prevent issues/ PTSD. The basic idea was to have the soldiers at the end of the day think about three things that had been nice about that day--it can be very small things. It apparently helps quite a bit with overall outlook (and I have tried it myself, and it works on me a little). Maybe something along these lines would help.
Best of luck!

First I would like to say that I am so *relieved* that we are not the only ones dealing with sleep issues. Our DD sleep issues played a huge role in finding out that she was profoundly gifted about a month ago. After leaving her very pure montessori pre-K for a traditional private school Kinder she had a harder and harder time falling asleep at night. After a few months in Kinder she was staying awake until 11 some nights. We couldn't figure out how to get this child to sleep after 5 plus years of no sleep issues.

I think it was extreme boredom on so many levels. She was incredibly engaged in her Montessori. She had been able to pick up her materials in the K-2 classroom while still 3 and 4 years old because she had mastered all of the preschool material so quickly. In kinder they had her circling for letter recognition and she is reading at a 4th or 5th grade level and memorizing the material. The dramatic change in environment led to insomnia and depression, which led us to having her assessed. I am so thankful in some ways that it happened somewhat early in her school life.

For the sleep in the meantime we developed a system to help her fall asleep. I agree with everyone about it relying on ROUTINE. For us having time to talk about all the "worries" is really important. We are Catholic, so we taught our daughter to give some of her worries to God. When she had worried about the same thing over and over to a point where she was torturing herself we meditated with her and taught her to "give" them up to God. Every night she reads about a whole book so she needs to be in bed early so she can have at least an hour if not two hours a night to read. Then we use Pandora Meditation station when "Reading Time" is over. Like others, we are only allowed to use the restroom once before there is a consequence. I think with gifted kids, another important thing I am learning is being reasonable and flexible within very strict boundaries is the balance. Its not easy but it works. We tend to be pretty strict but we have found that a flexibility and reasoning pays off as well. No one method works forever.