Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments SST meeting for DS

My DS's teacher wants to set up a SST meeting which will include the teachers of this year and past year, principle and school counselor. Of course DH and I will attend. DS's teacher wants DS to be there too but I am strongly disagree. The story is here.

DS10 is a emotion sensitive boy. He is not good at social, or expressing his feeling. He has some quirky behaviors since very young. I was doubting he has ADHD or AS when he was young but ruled them out by evaluation when he was 8. He is not a "model student" in the school but he didn't cause too much trouble in the past. He has strong academic skills especially on Math. Usually he will have some trouble to adapt new class and teacher at the beginning of school year but will be fine after few weeks.

This school year (4th grade) is different. At beginning, he didn't show he has trouble in new class. Teacher liked him. Even his weakness, writing, has improved. On November, in teacher-parents conference, the teacher said she had concern of his anger management problem. She didn't tell me the details so I was not too worry about it. DS is not a disturbing person but he is irritated by other person easily. I didn't see he has behavior change at home. Maybe the teacher was overreacted, I thought. The teacher didn't say much until last month. One day, when teacher went through all the questions on Math sheet. DS felt very bored, he used a pencil to poke on Math sheet to make a big square hole in the middle. And then put his face in the hole like a picture frame to make funny faces to other kids. The teacher is very upset.

Two weeks later, I got a call from principle. DS was annoyed by a classmate, poked the boy's leg by sharpened pencil. The boy was bleeding. DS got suspended for one day. After that, DS got more and more trouble in school. Mostly are angry to other kids, disturbing the class, or not showing respect to adults.

DS still showed average behaviors after school. Even in his other afterschool classes. I talked to him a lot recently but still not 100% sure what was happened. He said there are two classmates bother him so much. I don't think there are any bully event. I think they just don't know how to communicate to each other and there are some different expectation between them. DS also said the teacher's teaching style bored him more than half of the school day, which is never happened in past grades. He is not sure this is the reason though.

I am not sure what I should expect in SST meeting. His teacher is not happy about him and we parents are not happy about the teacher too. She kept complaining DS's behaviors to principle and school counsellor but didn't tell me directly. All the stories I heard, except "the hole in the Math sheet" one, were from other sources but not her. She never wanted to try to find the solutions with me. She just kept telling me to send DS to counsellor. Anyone got similar situations with me? Do I really need to find a counsellor for him? I heard a name Mika Gustavson on few gifted web site? Anyone knows her?

I'm sure more people will respond but I would say, in my opinion, I'd agree that your son should definitely not be at the meeting. Why do they want him there with all those adults? Wouldn't that make him more freaked out (anxious) and cause his behavior to become worse? That's what I would think.

I'd also find out if the frustration is, right now, concentrated on the times of day when he would be more underchallenged. (Such as, For a bright math student, filling out mind-numbing math sheets).

As an adult have you ever felt bored day after day and had your intelligence insulted, add that too being more emotional than "average" and trapped with alot of peers you can't relate to? ...trying humor was a normal response for a boy his age, but if the teacher is getting angry in response your son is matching that?

Do you have any samples of what he is capable of doing, math-wise, that you can bring from home?

Good luck, I think you're somewhat in good company in this forum.

I have read articles saying boredom in classroom cause anger. Dose any parent face the same situation?

On the day of math sheet incident, the teacher said to my son in front of me. "You need to learn how to be patient. I know you don't want to listen (the solution of math questions). Other kids' parents send them to school to learn, not to see you making funny faces. You need to learn how to study too. The things won't easy like this when you get older." Apparently the teacher knew he was bored but expected he sit through the class everyday.

I was not happy but didn't say anything because I did think ds was not respecting teacher.

Hi BooBoo

You might want to read "Is It a Cheetah?" By Stephanie Tolan. You can find it at her site here

http://www.stephanietolan.com/is_it_a_cheetah.htm

I would have also not said anything in front of my child to the teacher but I've found with my daughter that when I acknowledge afterward, quietly and calmly, that the situation isn't all that comfortable or appropriate for her (especially the ongoing issues in school with not being challenged) it's hard for her to do this day after day and because she's a kid and is still learning self-control she did something that was of course not appropriate and disrespectful. But there is always tomorrow to try again. Kids also need to know that you are working on a situation for them that's not the best fit.

In theory the adult is the authority figure and the child must always obey and respect, but sometimes in reality (especially from the viewpoint of a child) the adult really isn't respecting the child by not providing them with appropriate challenge. Your son might have figured this out by now though he might not articulate it in appropriate words, so you could start the conversation.

It's very hard to walk that fine line between expecting absolute respect and saying it like it is.

Did you sense that this situation with the teacher is ongoing, or bubbling at the surface? I think if the teacher is angry or has angry undertones like she's taking it personally that it's not good for the situation. I remember lots of things kids did in school and kids can always tell the difference between an adult that takes things personally and ones that just saw us as kids, unfinished products, and that they were there to lead us in the right direction.

Anyway I hope this post stays active and other people can give your their ideas too.

In your situation, I'd make sure to support the teacher in her assertion that your DS needs to learn how to study, and thank her for bringing this to your attention, even though the way it was done leaves a lot to be desired. It seems obvious that most effective way to demonstrate to him that he needs to learn to study and to give him practice learning those skills is to regularly give him things that he actually has to work hard and study to master. That'll teach him!

What a Child Doesn't Learn is an excellent piece on the damage that is done to gifted children by refusing to give them challenging work. You might want to bring a copy with you to the meeting.

Have you asked the teacher if you can send worksheets that would be more appropriate for your son? My dd is 6 and from about month 2 to about month 4 or 5 of kindergarten in public school she was disruptive and acting out everyday. They had to physically restrain her. Luckily my dd's teacher told me, though I did hear from others she was not respectful, she told me if she was acting out. She got angry and acted out. We had an SST and they really werent ready to test her because she was 5 at the time. However they agreed to send her up a grade for reading, said they would look into moving her for math (never did) and decided to let her help the other students if they had problems. I was told I could send workbooks incase she got bored. I bought a first grade workbook for 10 dollars at walmart and it went with her everyday. She eventually didnt need to use the workbook and found ways of keeping interest during class without it. We also had programs they sent her too for social skills. They pulled kids out of other classes for this too. So you might want to ask them if they have those kinds of programs. Good luck.

Your ds seems just a little young to be attending an SST meeting, but if you felt that he was mature enough to take part (without causing him undue anxiety) and (this is the BIG if).. you had a good understanding of where the school staff is coming from, what their agenda is, and how they will treat your ds in the meeting - then I'd consider having him attend. BUT in this situation, NO WAY! You and your dh need to go to the meeting, listen to what the school's concerns are, get a feeling re what they are thinking.

This is a link to an article that discusses children attending IEP meetings (note - this is slightly different than the meeting you're having - IEP meetings take place *after* a child has been determined eligible for IEP services, and yes, eventually students are asked to and expected to take part in their IEP meetings, but not typically until either middle school or high school (as far as I know). The meeting you are going to usually happens when a child is struggling - sometimes it's the first step in starting the process of seeing if a child is eligible for an IEP - but whatever happens at it, my gut feeling is that a first-time SST meeting when a child is having behavioral challenges at school carries too much potential for emotional risk to have the child attend. If the team (which includes you and your dh) decides *together* that they want to meet with your child then that's ok - provided you feel comfortable with what they plan to talk to your ds about and how they are going to approach it.

FWIW my ds12 has been through the IEP eligibility process for a learning disability, which I suspect would be a bit less emotionally charged than dealing with a teacher who has issues with behavior in the classroom - but even going through that there were many things that had to be said and discussed with the team that I wouldn't have wanted my ds to have to listen to - both the discussion of his disability (which he knows about but is sensitive about) as well as... quite honestly... the school staff occasionally bullied, played dumb and on a few occasions lied in order to try to get what they wanted - as an adult I am somewhat adept at putting that behavior into context, but it would not have done quite a bit of damage to the trust my ds had in the school staff, including his teacher, at the time.

Here's the link to the article: http://www.pacer.org/parent/php/PHP-c77.pdf

Have you tried looking for an advocate? You might want to look at the yellow pages link on www.wrightslaw.org - see if you can find a parents advocate group in your area or at least your state. There are groups in some areas that will give advice at no cost (they are funded by Federal grant programs). You could call them and ask the same question you asked here, and you would get not only the advice about what the school can and can't do requiring having your ds attend, but you might get local advice and some insight into how your school district works.

Best wishes,

polarbear

My DH and I have joked sometimes that if we knew ahead of time how many school staff members were going to be at some of these meetings, we would have rounded up random people to equal the numbers...paid random strangers to sit across the table with their hands folded and not say anything, but be a body on "our side".

As a mom of a highly gifted boy we met last week said, "sometimes it's like talking to someone who is from an alternative universe...you hear the words but they don't make any sense for the situation!"

Last year the pull-out enrichment teacher always came to the meetings that never solved anything, and she just sat there with a faint smile on her face and her hands folded and never said anything. And DD wasn't even in the enrichment program then (it didn't start for DD until this year). For a variety of reasons, including the teacher's odd non-participation at the meetings, she is not one of the kids who attends pull-out enrichment at this school.

Good luck.

LOL. I am sure we won't have so many people in the meeting.

Thank you all. Yesterday I talked to the teacher about my concern of being ds in the meeting. She said it will not be stressful, just have him sit and listen. I will take him there then try again to request to have him out.

Our public school has more than half of students are GATE students. Because of that, plus no sufficient funding, we don't have special classes for GATE students. Teachers need to figure out by themselves how to do the differentiation. Most of time we don't feel any difference except some BONUS work. Most GATE students are fine, I think only less than 10% of students need more than just BONUS work. Many teachers I know, includes the principle, think they know gifted children well enough. Most of the parents think their children are doing fine without GATE program. I know their feeling because my dd is doing very good in school. Curriculum is easy but not boring. For ds, and few other same or higher ability kids, they don't get enough challenge. I learned not to say this to teachers and other parents. They will say, "we've got many GATE students here. Why do you need to worry he is not getting enough challenge?" Many parents think all gifted children should be treated equally. I don't want to jeopardize the relationship with other parents. I feel happy and safe to talk about this here.

Trinanina, 3rd grade teacher tried to give him next grade math last year. Ds was not comfortable to have different work in the class. He didn't have the behavioral issue last year though and that teacher was very supportive.

It's only two months left to the end of this school year, actually I am not worry about ds's teacher. Teaching ds strategies to handle his anger is the first thing I want to do. I also want to talk to the principle what kind of teacher will have a better match. I am just not sure to bring out this issue during the meeting is appropriate. Or I should set up a private meeting with the principle.