Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Tester used WISC III not WISC IV - HELP!!

I have a learned a lot this week. DGS6 is a visual-spatial learner, and his processing speed is partly that and maybe an auditory processing thing. He is also being evaluated for a possible obstructive sleep apnea, which can cause all of his symptoms, including and especially the way below normal information score on the test.

I did not know bedwetting was associated strongly with ADHD, dyslexia and OSA in children. I happened upon an article by chance and now know this may be a strong clue as to why his scores are what they are.

herenow - Several testers have said they can administer the WISC-IV, but I think the SB5 is probably the best with his processing speed, but we may go ahead with the WJ-III. Nothing is for sure until we get the possible medical issues dealt with.

Thanks for all your replies.

The norms become inaccurate over time, which is a big reason that the norms have to be updated every so often; it's not done just to cater to minority groups as you suggest. The WISC-III is about to become two revs out of date. In addition it's likely that many programs wouldn't accept such an old test-- Davidson doesn't, for instance. The tester simply shouldn't be using such an outdated, outmoded test, especially if there wasn't full disclosure up front.

Our school won't accept the WISC-III either. They said they will need more testing to see if he qualifies for any services - gifted or LD. I did not pay a whole lot for the test, fortunately, but I guess I got what I paid for.

One good thing about all this, is that I learned what questions to ask DGS to find out what's going on his head. Like, "Can you hear all the noise on the playground at recess?" He said he has trouble hearing when it's noisy and then piped in, while playing a video game, "I can't hear my teacher call my name in class either!"

We were talking about what he sees when "his mind goes crazy" and he said all kinds of pictures run through his mind. I then learned a little later that when he sees the word 'cat' he sees a picture of a cat with the letters on it in his head.

So at least because of the testing and his school problems, I'm learning to communicate with him in new ways. He seemed relieved when he could tell me about the hearing and the "mind goes crazy." So there is almost always a silver lining in everything.

The reality is that the tests are redone for financial reasons more than anything else. The companies selling testing material increase revenue every time they put out a new revision because it forces all the people giving the test to invest in a whole new set of testing material which usually sets them back 1000-2000 dollars depending on which test they are updating.

And yes some places will only accept the latest and greatest test for admissions, but that fact doesn't invalidate the older test for helping to identify a problem that a child has.

The reality is that the WISC-III is a thoroughly outdated test. And regardless of your feelings about minorities and testing, the results are near-worthless for use in advocacy; the norms are now out of date so the figures are suspect (you might enjoy learning about the Flynn effect, while keeping in mind that the WISC-III is now over two decades old); and it's also simply not as accurate of a tool because it doesn't have any of the latest advances.

If anyone is still using the WISC-III today, it's only because they want to save a buck. I can't find a decent rationale like there is for the continuing scattered use of the SB-LM. The WISC-III is simply an old test that shouldn't be used; and like it or not, when a person undertakes to do psychological testing for money, there are going to be expenses.

Psych testers can do whatever they like to pass along the costs of doing business to their customers, but it's just not right to test the children of know-nothing clients with an old, outdated test and no warnings.

In a way I disagree with this. WISC IV is better for kids with serious variation between intellectual strengths and slow processing speed because a GAI can be calculated, and it can help explain to people what they are seeing. Of course if your local gifted program ONLY wants to talk about FSIQ and doesn't 'get' GAI, then it's worth it to do SB-V.

HTH
Grinity

The suggestion for doing the SB came from the folks at gifteddevelopment.com in Denver. It was a only a general discussion. We are hoping to have a consult with them later this month. There is a lot of paperwork involved and we want to get the medical questions answered first.

Grinity - Can we do a WISC-IV so soon after the WISC-III? I know it was suggested by a psychologist who specializes in gifted and 2E kids and she seems to think it is okay. She is also very expensive! But, we do what we have to for our kids.

Any thoughts?

Leahchris

If you go with the GDC, just verify what version of the SB they are using. They are one of the few well known testing centers for gifted kids that advocates continued use of the SB-LM. They do have some valid reasons, but it is controversial and you may run into the same advocacy issues you'll have with the WISC-III b/c there are those who feel that it is not as valid due to the outdatedness (is that a word -- lol!) of the test.

Re how closely together one can take two different versions of the same test, opinions will probably differ, but I'd say that it is safer to err on the side of not testing on the WISC-III and WISC-IV (or V or whatever version) within one year. For instance, when I've tested kids on group tests (achievement or ability), the testing companies have generally held that I can't give one test (say the CogAT or ITBS) and then a different test (like the OLSAT or SAT-10) within a few months of one another b/c they are similar enough albeit not identical that the first test may serve as "prep" for the second making the second results less valid.

This has only come up when I've had a parent ask for a second test in quick succession b/c the first results weren't where they wanted them. That isn't what you're looking for, but I suspect that the same principle would apply.

Hopefully someone else will have some thoughts on that part of your question b/c I'm sure that opinions would vary.

I honestly don't knowwhat the exact rules areas far as retesting so soon. I agree that GDC is a great idea as long as they give SBV as the main test and maybe SBLM as an add on but I'm on of those who thinks SBLM is just too old to be enlightening in general. Your kid has so nuch scatter that you'll need a very experienced tester which is what you should get at GDC.

How long to you expect it to take to get the sleep apnea sorted out? When do you need the test results by?

Love and more love
Grinity

I honestly don't knowwhat the exact rules areas far as retesting so soon. I agree that GDC is a great idea as long as they give SBV as the main test and maybe SBLM as an add on but I'm on of those who thinks SBLM is just too old to be enlightening in general. Your kid has so nuch scatter that you'll need a very experienced tester which is what you should get at GDC.

How long to you expect it to take to get the sleep apnea sorted out? When do you need the test results by?

Love and more love
Grinity