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    Joined: Oct 2011
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    I suppose I knew this before I ever read the article, because DD7 has had a phase in the last couple years where she falls apart in occasional challenge situations, and severely doubts her own abilities. Not coincidentally, it began about when the school hung the "gifted" label on her.

    DW and I try to praise DD for talent AND effort. With this article in mind, I decided last night to point out how achievement equals talent plus effort, and how talent without effort can accomplish nothing. Her response was "I know..." and an accompanying eye-roll, so I guess we're getting through.

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    Originally Posted by Dude
    I suppose I knew this before I ever read the article, because DD7 has had a phase in the last couple years where she falls apart in occasional challenge situations, and severely doubts her own abilities. Not coincidentally, it began about when the school hung the "gifted" label on her.

    DW and I try to praise DD for talent AND effort. With this article in mind, I decided last night to point out how achievement equals talent plus effort, and how talent without effort can accomplish nothing. Her response was "I know..." and an accompanying eye-roll, so I guess we're getting through.


    I had the same conversation with my DS9 last night. I got the very same response.
    There is no be all end all. It is a balancing act at best.

    Sports and group activities of all kinds help us. It equals the playing field IMO.
    I have found in the last couple years my son can deal with things better if I am not in the mix. Not that he doesn't struggle at certain things but he picks himself back up on his own. Basketball and baseball are very competitive in our area and you cannot move up without a good bit of effort--and well, talent.

    He seems to get it but I see the issues.


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    I am starting to wonder if I actually went too far with this philosophy of little praise. DD's self esteem seems to be pretty darn low. I'm so used to worrying about the artificially high self esteem and the "Yay, you moved your foot!" stuff that is prevalent now that I wonder if I have been missing this/messing this up for a while. It seems to be a hard balance to strike. I also am not always sure what is genuine negativity about herself and what is "fishing."

    Last edited by ultramarina; 02/23/12 09:47 AM.
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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    I am starting to wonder if I actually went too far with this philosophy of little praise. DD's self esteem seems to be pretty darn low. I'm so used to worrying about the artificially high self esteem and the "Yay, you moved your foot!" stuff that is prevalent now that I wonder if I have been missing this/messing this up for a while. It seems to be a hard balance to strike. I also am not always sure what is genuine negativity about herself and what is "fishing."
    IIRC the heart of the matter is how you give positive reinforcement, not that you need to avoid it. Instead of praising a child for being smart, etc. you praise effort, or praise achievement while noting how proud you are of the effort needed to achieve, perhaps specifically noting and appreciating how the child didn't give up at a certain point but was creative about finding a different approach, etc. One thing I've done with DS6 in the past is ask him if he's happy to have surmounted an obstacle (always "yes") and if he's happy to be more capable after learning something new (again always "yes").

    Now, if your kid never has to try at anything, that can be hard to do. laugh In that case it's time to up the challenge level.


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    As a teacher, it's hard to find the balance. You want to encourage each child in the class. This year my goal has been to try and encourage students in a meaningful way. Breaking the habit of saying "You're smart!" has been the hardest. I've had to pinch myself every time I say it. I think after hearing you're smart for so many years the students get an attitude where if it's hard they can give up. I've had a few who were genuinely surprised that I didn't rush to their aid when they commented on hard work.

    My new motto is, "I'm glad the work is difficult. When the work is difficult you fail, you try again, and then you learn more."

    Maybe I should create a swear-jar type situation where every time I give superficial praise, I put some money in the jar!

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    Smart idea!

    Another thing I've done is model persistence. I've even pushed this with books and films. One of my son's favorite characters is Charles from "The Edge".


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    Since I think intelligence is largely beyond a person's control, I agree it rarely makes sense to praise a child for being intelligent. But parents should try give children an accurate view of themselves. Since a person's intelligence is relevant when deciding on educational and career options, a parent should try to make an informed estimate of his child's intellect and discuss that estimate at least occasionally. IQ tests and other standardized tests can help a parent estimate a child's intelligence and relative strengths and weaknesses. One reason to send a gifted child to academic gifted summer programs is to help him refine his own estimate of his abilities. He may be clearly be in the top 1%, but interacting with other one-percenters will let him know if he is in the top 0.1% or 0.01% .


    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    One reason to send a gifted child to academic gifted summer programs is to help him refine his own estimate of his abilities. He may be clearly be in the top 1%, but interacting with other one-percenters will let him know if he is in the top 0.1% or 0.01% .

    Academic competitions should help with this as well.

    I remember some math competition thingy I did in middle school, although I can't remember its name.

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    I guess I agree with Bostonian to a degree. By the time students are ready for this lesson about the brain and its supposed muscle-like qualities, the brain's development has already slowed considerably. In the early years, environmental stimuli and challenges can significantly impact development, but once that window has passed, I'm not inclined to pretend otherwise. These students may be working in an effort to make themselves smarter, but what they are really doing is making themselves more knowledgeable.

    Why not be honest about the situation? Knowledge can be very rewarding, and is often a prerequisite for understanding.

    My oldest child isn't 3 yet, but when the time comes, I think I'll explain to her that her intelligence is like a multiplier for her effort. Performance = Effort X Intelligence. Since she appears to have a high intelligence, she can manage a mediocre performance with very little effort. However, if she wants to perform at the highest level, considerable effort will be required.

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    The book "Mindset: The New Psychology of Success" by Carol Dweck talks about this.

    After reading that book years ago, I made sure to always praise my dd's effort and hard work rather than inborn talent especially when others try to call her a prodigy or talented. Effort and hard work are things a child can control so praising those can be positive reinforcement. They cannot control their inborn traits so praising those is useless and can lead to perfectionism or avoidance of challenge.
    I am also very specific with praise. For example, rather than telling her a performance was wonderful, I will comment on her use of dynamics or how she worked hard to get a certain shift just right or I will comment on how she worked through a difficult math problem.

    We are honest with dd about the fact that some things come more easily to her than to other kids but also discuss the fact that different people have different talents and challenges.

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