Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional ADD-PI, Introversion, Dyspraxia???

Hi all,

I posted a while back about my DS, third grade, about what I suspect is a case of "something" masking his giftedness and his giftedness masking this "something." Here is the short version of that:


At the time, I thought that this "something" might be ADD-PI (primarily inattentive), possibly of the subtype Sluggish Cognitive Tempo.

I'm starting to wonder if there could be other things or different things going on. One thought is dyspraxia. From what I read, I don't see any involvement of speech or fine motor skills, but possibly gross motor skills. He is really really bad at sports, like ridiculously bad. Can hardly catch, sort of runs funny, and most importantly, has absolutely no interest in trying to improve on his skills. He doesn't seem to have the clumsiness associated with dyspraxia however. Maybe just a poor athlete? Is dyspraxia something I would know about already? As it doesn't seem like a minor issue.

My other thought is wondering about the role of introversion. Last week, at school, they had a holiday concert, two of them in fact. One in the afternoon, one in the night. I went to both. At the first, he was all into it, loved being on stage, everything. But for the second one, I could hardly drag him back. He didn't seem physically tired (it was only at 6 pm and he usually goes to sleep around 830). It was just like he was fried.

Anyway, just thought I would throw this out there and see if anyone had any thoughts. It seems like these things (ADD-PI, dyspraxia and introversion overlap. Thanks!

Hi. Glad for the update!
Have you taken him to an occupational therapist? They can pinpoint the source of his clumsiness and quantify if he is mearly on the low side of average or way way below average. What worries me is that he has no intrest in challenging himself physically.

As for tthe play it is clear that his internal resources weren't sstrong enough to handle both shows. I wouldn't think Introversion from that particular example...more if I saw a pattern of being energized ny alone time.

Are you scheduled for testing?
Peace
Grinity

Thanks for your response

I should have added that part about the OT. Yes, we had an OT eval done about a year ago, and the fine motor skills came out fine, with the gross motor skills delayed a bit. So we did OT for about a year and then the OT said that he was "done" and seemed fine. But the issues still linger, in terms of sports, and probably always will. I was wondering about the organizational challenges associated with dyspraxia, which the OT didn't address.

I think he is definitely introverted, lots of other examples. I know because both my husband and I are also introverted. Definitely needs to recharge after school, parties, etc. I'm wondering if the introversion is causing him to sort of space out in school as well as his energy drains (it's a large class, very noisy, she has them sitting in groups, etc).

I haven't done any other testing, other than the WISC. Not sure even where I would start, with who, or what I am looking for, know what I mean? Teachers have never suggested testing, other than the OT eval from the PE teacher, and he's been in both public and parochial schools and had exposure to many teachers.

I read Marti Laney Olsen's book last night about introverted children, and she had a part that introversion in children is often confused with ADD-PI. Her point, I think if I read it right, is that introverts eventually learn the skills to "fake it" in our extroverted society, but children haven't learned that yet, so they are just being themselves and zoning out when their energy is depleted. And then I reread about dyspraxia and noticed an organizational component there too, gah!

ETA: Another interesting fact, about 60% of gifted children are introverts, compared with only 30% of the general population. I wonder if we, as a society, are ignoring this trait when it comes to bright and gifted kids? Most elementary school teachers are extroverts as well.

I found an article that talks about the kind of SPD my son has. http://sensoryandmore.com/2011/08/04/muscles-exercise-and-sensory-processing-disorder/
Even though he could read at 2 1/2, read at a 5th grade level with good comprehension at at 5 and do some mental math including some multiplication, he would become fatigued before other kids, had trouble doing some of the physical things other kids did because he didn't have their strength and endurance and he also seemed to have loose joints (a friend of mine once described him as loosey-goosey) which made him seem not as coordinated as other kids. He had trouble catching a ball but we worked on that at home and it seemed like it took him longer to learn dance routines in musical theater class, but I later realized that when he had to sit out some of the dances to rest he was not getting as much practice as the other kids and I think that was part of the reason.

My son could not get more than six weeks of OT because he didn't have a diagnosis. By the time he got a diagnosis of dyspraxia and dysgraphia at age 11, the doctor said it was too late for OT. If my son really has dyspraxia it is very mild because he can learn dances, he gets lead roles and does very well in musical theater, has no trouble with balance, has no trouble learning and learns much faster and retains much more than I can and I usually made straight A's in school, never had any trouble speaking and speaks more clearly than a lot of the kids in his musical theater group, but we both have some symptoms of dyspraxia when we get migraines and he was getting one when he was tested in one all day session even though we told them about the fatigue issues.

My son is homeschooled but he took a writing composition class last year. He said he had trouble paying attention to the teacher in class but is able to learn the material by reading and learning on his own. He made a 98 in the class. He also has dysgraphia but can write legibly for a short time until his muscles get tired. He has no problem with composition or spelling and he used to do well in spelling bees. He had to wear an uncomfortable scoliosis brace during the class also which might have contributed to his attention issues. His sensory issues used to cause him to be distracted by things like clothing tags or his socks not being quite right or his hands were sticky or whatever and sounds sometimes distracted him. He hears and notices things before our dogs sometimes. But even with SPD he has learned to tolerate a painful scoliosis brace and is up to about 10 hours of pain a day now. He needs to be able to tolerate it 16 hours a day which means he needs to sleep in it and he had trouble sleeping before the brace.

Days when he had several musical theater performances were very difficult because he would get tired. He could still perform and he could act like he wasn't that tired but it was not fun for him.

We live in a small town where boys are expected to be involved in sports. They are judged by their sports ability. Most of the kids his age don't want to read or talk about the things he is interested in. Adults describe my son as very articulate and personable but kids think he is shy because he doesn't talk that much around them, but then what does he have to talk to them about?

He took a martial arts class with adults last summer and would do really well for about 45 minutes. He could easily balance on one foot and do the required kicks and punches but it was a one hour class and the instructor said it wasn't fair to the people without his physical issues when he couldn't continue fighting after he became fatigued. He would try so hard and would get to the point where he was going to throw up. There was no place for my son to further develop his motor skills in our small town except for musical theater and dance.

I think my son would have difficulty completing the amount of written work they require in our public school. Time management to me means figuring out how to learn the material in the fastest way possible before the fatigue sets in. He did not have time to color in the lines like the school wanted him to do. The fatigue is not something he can help and sometimes I think it is hard for other people to understand this because I try to explain it and they don't seem to believe me. I am still trying to figure out how my son will advocate for himself when he is just a kid and they don't even believe me.

Hi Lori,

Thanks for sharing your experience and for the link to that article. This part really struck me:


It's a vicious cycle, isn't it?

Good point on the loose joints, I forgot that one. My DS has slightly loose joints, as do I. I wonder how much that plays in as well, which could then look like dyspraxia?

The one thing he will do is swimming, but he shows no interest in racing. He is actually a pretty decent swimmer now (after many many many hours of lessons). I think the water takes the weight off of his slightly loose joints which probably helps.

I'm not really sure how much the OT helped our DS to be honest. We paid for it ourselves, as there was no diagnosis either. I personally think it was a waste of money in our case, but who knows. I'm surprised to hear the doctor say to you that it was too late at age 11, I didn't think there were age cutoffs, that is interesting.

My son's handwriting always tested as fine and he doesn't seem to fatigue with writing. I can't wait until they move more and more to the computer so his writing load will be reduced.

So now, I'm thinking about possible ADD-PI, Sluggish Cognitive Tempo, introversion, dyspraxia and/or loose joints. Sigh!

ETA: I meant to add about the sports...My son goes to a private (parochial) school and I am shocked at the emphasis on sports. I guess I didn't think about it, but they have a basketball team and the boys who are good at basketball definitely get a lot of positive attention. Recess is now mostly sports of some sort (shooting baskets, etc). It's so hard raising a boy who isn't good at/isn't interested in sports. It really is such a primary way that boys meet each other and make friends, etc.