Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment They want a Psych. Eval., should I be concerned?

Just wanted to say that we are in the same boat, my son is not DYS, but close, yet has lots of other quirks that are starting to border on "possibly something more than just gifted."


The way I look at it,it can't hurt.

Wow! Lots of great thoughts and suggestions here.

@Amber-the only way I'm afraid it can hurt is b/c it's a psychiatrist who's used to evaluating according to a medical model/DSM IV etc. is that he might pathologize something that need not be pathologized. As opposed to someone who will look at the whole picture esp. someone who is familiar w/behaviors of gifted children.


@LNEsMom & DeeDee- good question--exactly what are they looking for!? He said a psychiatrist b/c it's just what they've always done. I don't suspect any 2E issues of ADHD and neither did the psychologist who did his first two evaluations (just found out he passed away last month : ( ) The science class is with older kids, but it's only for 1hr not 6 (that's what they said about that). Interesting point about kids being less forgiving as a good thing; sort of a "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" for behavior.


@2Gifted, Master of none, CAmom-- I don't think they're necessarily against acceleration, they just want to be sure that there's not something else going on that need to be addressed. That's why they want the psych. eval first, b/f they try anything and have to keep moving him around if one thing doesn't quite fit.

Honestly, I think he's bored and quirky (at times). The more I read your suggestions, the more I think that a Psychiatric interview is not the way to go. I'm thinking that if we get a couple of recommendations from the gifted school near us (we can't afford the $15,000 tuition) of psychologists they use, who are familiar w/gifted, that we should just have one of them do an eval. even if we have to pay for it ourselves. Sheeesh! People think that b/c you have a "smart kid" that life is just so easy...ummm.....not so much!!

I would be sure that whatever professional you take your gifted child to is familiar with this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Misdiagnosis-Diagnoses-Gifted-Children-Adults/dp/0910707677

So much excellent advice.

In a way, I think that the 'lets get a Psychiatrist' involved and have all our information upfront, is a way, I think, of evaluating how much confidence you have that a better fit classroom will solve your son's problems. I like your 'When in Rome' way of stating it. Having social pressure is a good thing, if there are no other issues that outweight that in the mix.

I think that the school - perhaps unconsiously - is looking for you to say: "I understand that this is an unusual situtation and you want all the reassurance you can get that this is the right move at the right time, but let ME ASSURE you, that this situation is unusual enough that ONLY TIME WILL TELL. My son does show some unusual behaviors, but I am CONFIDENT that once the academics are of a proper fit, that we can parent him through the social difficulties. We are the parents. We are confident that the only additional tests he needs at this time are academic tests so that he can be placed in an appropriate mix of classes.We appreciate your flexibility so far, and want to assure you that if, in the future, we need to be flexible on the question of psychiatric evaluation, we will be. Finding the right blend is a process, like Rome, that won't be built in a day. All the preperation in the world won't mean as much as a 6 week trial.

Does that seem to fit? In the old days a child was skipped, transcripped altered forever, and that was the end of the process. Nowadays there should be follow up evals to see if it's working out, if it's too much or if it's not enough.

It's my feeling that they are (unconsiouly) looking for reassurance, and that simply reminding them that you are all working together for your son's benifit and showing personal confidence is all that they actually need right now.

To their credit, schoolies feel very responsible that if they skip a child they are changing the child's life forever. That didn't happen in our house, but I can applaud the seriousness with which they are approaching their role.

In the end, I'd fold faster than a cheap suitcase, but I would at least make a solid bid for a stepwise evaluation. There is no point in a mental health evaluation until the academic eval tells you if he's have to leave the building or if academic peers can be found inside the building somewhere, because you won't be able to add in the actual details of the plan. Oh, and be sure that they aren't planning to 'stop the test' for any sort of weak excuse like: 'we don't have high enough materials' or 'we've never tested beyond level " - " ' or 'we aren't going to send him out of the building so what's the point of actually seeing where he actually is?'

Even though they sound like they would logically 'of course' keep testing until they got his proper level, it's quite hard to keep them 'on course' - experience trumps logic about once every 15 mintues around here, and to be honest, I don't know if I'd be able to get out of bed on these crazy weather days if I was actually being logical and rational.

Smiles,
Grinity

Thanks for your response; I think you just hit the nail on the head. I think they feel that there might be other issues going on w/him socially. I don't think so; I think that he has some quirky behaviors, that social skills are not his strong suit, that he has no other kids his own age he can relate to, that he is bored in school (although they are working on this, instruction might be differentiated, but by his teacher. So, once again he will build a great rapport w/his teacher, it does not help bridge the gap socially). That's what I think, but can't say one hundred percent that I'm right. They just want to rule everything out just in case.

I think doing it step by step might be one way to go and I was just informed that they won't require a psych. eval. if we're not comfortable w/it. I explained to them that I'm not uncomfortable w/it, I just want someone not connected w/the school and someone who is not a psychiatrist.

Now the psychologist informed me that he wants to give another IQ test since the one he had taken was from almost two years ago (even though he had an achievement test last yr.). Uggg....here I go again, I'm not so sure I'm comfortable w/that. He's only a school psychologist, not a state licensed psychologist and he's already told me he hasn't seen too many gifted kids and definitely not a kid as gifted as my son. So now I'm concerned about the reliability of his implementing this test (either consciously or subconsciously skewing the results. Crap. This is really hard. (sorry, just a wee bit of venting! )

I've been in your boat.... I just want to say hang in there.... I also think your idea of using a psych from the gifted school is a GREAT idea if you can suck up the cost.... At least then you have an inpartial knowledgable perspective going forward.

Well, since they have just about told you that they are concerned that your son is 2E, I would say it is NOT appropriate for the school psychologist to do the IQ testing. He simply doesn't have the experience with gifted kids and especially 2E kids to be qualified to do that kind of assessment, IMO.

I would want an independent evaluation, if they will accept it.

Also, I get why they are worried about his behavior, but maybe you could get them to just let him "visit" a class for a day or two and see what happens. If he can't handle it for even that amount of time, then there's your answer. But if he does well, then you know that he CAN do well in the environment.

This isn't really an equivalent situation, but my DS was having a hard time in 1st to the point where he was in the office frequently and I was getting the implied ADHD comments "he can't focus or sit still" (although through all of it he was still completing all his work and doing it correctly!) and he was becoming defiant with the teacher, uggh it was terrible. Mid-year they switched him to another classroom after observing that he did better with his math teacher. Once he was moved to her class full-time, all of the negative behaviors stopped immediately. So, changing the classroom environment can make a HUGE difference! IMO, while they may say your ds is just "holding it together" for the 1 hour science class, it sounds to me more like he is actively engaged in a class he finds interesting with other students who likely model more mature behavior, which is exactly what you are looking to put him in during the school day. Even 1 hour is a long time to a kindergartner, so I don't think they should discount his behavior in that class completely.

I'm not even sure they're concerned that he's 2E since that's already been ruled out by the first psychologist (unless they don't trust his report or think things have changed and they're just not telling me). I think they just don't know what to make of his behavior and they're just trying to figure it out. We're sure he's not 2E. I think he's just quirky, bored and lacking in social skills.

I think I might call off the IQ test, even thought they've already started it. I'm not sure what they're looking for there either. He said it's two yrs old and they just want a more accurate picture of him academically. Ummm...I don't think there's any doubt that he's gifted and I don't think an updated IQ test will tell them anything they don't already know. Ugh...I hate to say it, but I'm concerned that they might use it against him if he scores even just a bit lower: "see, he's not really that gifted, I guess we don't need to accelerate him after all" Horrible to think this way, maybe I'm being too neurotic. I think they should just test him (benchmarks) to see where he is academically as far as curriculum goes and that's it. As far as behavior goes, I'm still up in the air about this.

A trial run in a different class might be interesting, I'm not so sure they will be amenable to this. I'll suggest it and see what happens. I think this is similar to the step-by-step approach that Grinity has also suggested.

You mentioned he is a DYS? Have you talked about this with your parent liason? I have been desperate to get my kiddo accepted for that perk alone!!

Hi bbq797!

I'm jumping into this without reading everything fully (danger disclaimer!), and I have a toddler underfoot, so I will have to be brief.

Have you brought your Family Consultant into this yet? If he is a DYS, then you have the ability to bring in some heavy guns (or an expert opinion) on the correlation between behavior and an inappropriate academic environment. I know our family consultant has been absolutely wonderful. He has been happy to write a letter to the school about the academic needs our my son. There are many things about these little Pglets that are unique: asynchronous development, over-excitabilities, how rapidly they need to devour new material, etc. Somehow, having an outsider instead of a parent advocate for your child is extremely valuable. Of course, it only helps if the school is willing to listen.

Your FC may also have a list of qualified psychologists in your area who are used to dealing with PG kids for testing, if needed. There is also a number of articles on this sites datebase that speak of the stress that being in an unchallenging environment has on a PG kid and how it affects their behavior.

I have a DS11 who is also a DYS, who sounds a lot like your kiddo. We have the karate chops in the air, as well, and there are times when he looks decidedly quirky. The school pushed for an ADHD diagnosis, and we took him to a Gifted/ADHD psychologist who agrees that he probably is ADHD. But the funny thing is that most of the symptoms are greatly magnified by an inappropriate school environment. He tends to do the karate chops in the air when he is very stressed or anxious, and when he is trying to "process" the day's activities at school. The more "friction" in his life, whether it is boredom in school or a social mismatch with kids that don't get him, the more "quirky" he looks. But put him on the Science Olympiad team with old kids who share his passion and joy for science, and he fits right in.

DS11 had one grade skip between 2nd and 3rd, and then a subject acceleration in Science of 3 years. Even after all of this help from the school, we still felt that this school was not a good fit for our son. Their expectations were that every child should be the same and that they should all fit through the same round peg hole. They expected that the accelerations would help him fit through the next grade's round peg better. However, we just needed to realized that he was not round like everyone else, and to celebrate his uniquely squareness.

Once we did that, by changing to a school that is more accepting of differences, going through a second grade acceleration, and add a healthy dose of maturity, which seems to be kicking in in burst and starts at age 11, we seem to be finally finding a good place to be in. (cross every finger and toe and pray).