Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Hothouse Spinoff

My best guess is up until third grade everybody's learning to read and write. �After third grade everybody's reading and writing to learn. �I've heard a saying that went something like that. �

DS15 was very upset by this same part of the problem back in his daycare days, when many of the kids literally didn't talk.

I don't know if TX still offers gradeskips by testing, but they used to - worth checking into to at least get the base grade right.

I think the private school kids have a higher percentage of NMS because they had higher IQs to start with - as there is a fairly strong correlation between income and IQ of parents, and a quite strong correlation between IQ of parents and IQ of kids. As we know, drill seems to have 'mixed results' with gifted kids - it benifits some of the time and produces worse results other of the time.

Good luck!
Grinity

Although, according to this teacher/blogger it takes longer than 3rd grade to level the playing field since teachers professors have embraced constructivist theory of education and without phonics the ability gap widens.

http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Smart-Teachers-in-Stupid-Schools.aspx
Granted the teacher mentions Special Ed, but notice she says few ADULTS are as responsible as constructivists expect children to be.
�It's the anti-unschool. �

I'm not anti-unschool. �I forgot who said it, but someone here said, "here we support whatever's working for your family. �We're a very eclectic mix."

Eta: �what I've heard about headstart is that it's not really educational, it's mostly to teach needy kids to wash their hands and say please and thank you, things the parents usually teach. �My mom told me that about head start when I was a kid and asked about it.
Hothousing is more like the Amy Chau, tiger moms who make their kids practice the fiddle instead of watching cartoons and that's something the headstart kids can't afford. �
"Hothoused Children"
That book was scathingly �called, "The Dilemma Of The Instant Expert"
"Or, how a childless writer with no experience as an educator nevertheless decides to tell parents of gifted children where they've gone wrong." �
Read the full �review here:
http://giftedhomeschoolers.org/articles/hothousedkids.html

The reviewer of the famous "Hothoused Kids" book attributes the author with saying that �there�s a continuum of involved parents, ranging from committed, to extreme committed, to too-extreme.�. ��

I've gotta be somewhere in that range, methinks.

This is not an accurate description of the Head Start classrooms where I've spent time. Yes, students are taught to wash hands before snack and after using the bathroom just like they are in any preschool. I don't think you'll find that groups of three and four year olds (no matter the socioeconomic status of their parents) will necessarily have their own orderly practices for handwashing in an unfamiliar environment.

Head Start centers vary in the curriculum they use but you will find many of the preschool standards - reading stories and nursery rhymes, hands on sensory play, learning the alphabet and numbers, movement to music, centers for art activities, learning to play cooperatively with other kids, building with blocks, etc. I'm not suggesting it would be intellectually stimulating to your child but I don't think it is at all accurate to suggest that HeadStart is just about teaching low income kids to wash their hands because their parents didn't.

Oh. Sorry. Like I said my mom told me that and I had to have been young when she said it.

I caught the principal at the school a few days before school started. �I took a few samples of worksheets and a cut and paste project I was sure the boy can easily replicate without instruction on a bad day, so as not to overstate his ability. �The principal looked at it and said, "they don't start testing for GT until kindergarten.". Then I said, well, he's a late birthday. �Can we do an early entry into pre-k for an advanced learner? �She said she'd look and I could look and if there was anything to file to make it happen she'd file the papers, but she'd never heard of it happening. �I called the district GT and the regional GT. �I called a cousin who's a shrink and she said her old college professor does nothing but administer tests for a living, so I know where to go when we need testing. �

Long story short. �He can take pre-k next year. �(he'll turn 4 next month-this year). �The following year he can take the test for credit by examination to skip kindergarten. �I'm not planning that far ahead to know if he should skip it or not. �
You can skip up to one grade per year. �I'm not sure he needs to be skipped and rushed. �That's one thing that has to be child-led. �"sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow"** �I know, and even one of the district GT people I talked to said, "the school probably never will meet his educational needs.". I said, well, I already knew that. �I know about Aleks and Epgy and I have a good support group at the Davidson Public Gifted Forum. �

I think what I'm thinking is at least get the kids through elementary school here for the specific Laredo area culture that is important to the hubby. �We both believe education is a priority. �We will continue supplementing. �I will change the plan if the kids are crying, frustrated every day or bored and becoming behavior problems.
I plan to send the kids to school for social reasons. �It has nothing to do with the homeschooling and socialization myths. �I just think he'll like going to school. �

**"Life's a dance you learn as you go
Sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow."
By Mr. John Michael Montgomery�

They do. But here is the problem. The HS program in TX has not changed since I went to HS. Ap calc in the 12 grade even in schools with massive numbers of NMSF kids and AP Humanities covering the same stuff I did.

In my HS we had two NMSF, and both of us snoozed through AP Calc. Given the Flynn Effect and the much better prep kids have today, you would think the Senior math class would be on the same level as a 3rd year class in a Math major with AP calc in the 10 grade.



I thought so too, but I've spent time with some of the kids from the top private schools in my area and, while they are bright, they are not driven polymaths. And the private curriculum suffers from the same limitations as the top public schools'. And looking through the curriculum, it seems to peak in intensity and subject matter in the 9th grade with the other subsequent years being a rehash in depth. So, I do think it is just intense preparation rather than sheer brilliance.

I also think there is a bit of academic red shirting going on and I also found out that a number of kids get a lot of PSAT and SAT prep and outside tutoring in the summer.

A coworker's son was doing two digit multiplication in his head at 5. He took a number of tests with FSIQ > 140 and the district still refused to skip him to first grade.

I talked to two GT coordinators last week and neither had ever heard of kids skipping K. They had heard of limited skipping in later years, ie skip 2d, etc, but it was rare. I also did a lexis-nexis search for kids graduating early ( ie 16 or younger) in North Texas and found nothing.

I've heard of a few kids GED'ing out and going to college at 16, though.

I agree with this. We have a number of friends with kids in top private schools. While I'd guess all these people are all above average IQ, only one family would realistically be identified as gifted. Overall this group are people with family money and good jobs through good connections or they are people who have been prepared to work very hard and take risks (and are smart enough that they have been well calculated risks, but not so smart as to avoid the risk all together). To me it's the propensity to take calculated risks that is the common theme in these friends' financial success rather than anything else. From what I understand from all the reading I've done (and I am aware this is a generalization), the gifted population is more prone to being risk adverse and therefore not necessarily more likely to make up the population of prestigious schools (risk adverse gifted parents = not necessarily highest income earners = gifted off spring not necessarily at prestigious schools, etc).

The hard work and risk taking, the desire to give their kids the skills to achieve results are all things that make the kids from those schools high achievers. Also, it's in the interests of those schools to achieve excellent results and so they will ensure those kids get them through rigorous coaching and plenty of support.

I also have a theory (ah yes, another of my personal, untested theories) that what really gets people in to top positions more than anything else is the feeling they deserve it. That kind of mentality means that those people naturally position themselves in their work environment in such a way that they get noticed and validated. Perhaps that is the quality that is hot housed more than any other in elite private schools

The things you are describing - developing long-term goals, goal-directed hard work, calculated (but not impulsive) risk-taking, are manifestations of high executive functioning, which is an even better predictor of success than IQ, according to an article Bostonian recently posted here.

Fortunately, executive functioning can be developed and trained; unfortunately,one of the things that develops it is practice with progressively more difficult tasks requiring planning, problem-solving, and goal-directed hard work. So one of the very real costs of under-challenge for gifted children is a lack of opportunity to develop skills in executive functioning.