Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Differences between composite standard scores/LD??

Ugh...Need help please! I have been googling trying to understand clearly what the "Differences Between Composite Standard Scores" sheet actually all signifies on the WIAT-III. There are 11 out of 21 catagories with a "yes" under "significant difference" That really worries me!!! An example is Mathematics vs. Math Fluency with a difference of 32, critical value (significance Level .01) 11.3 and a base rate of <_ 1% ??? Do the "yes" signifiy a potential LD or underachievement? I assume that the "difference" column is the difference between his potential (WISC he took) and his achievement? What numbers under "difference", "critical value" and "base rate" signify a LD and/or underachievement? How can you tell the difference between a real LD and underachievement due to underchallenging work for so long? What subtests would point toward ADD? Sorry, a lot of questions here! I feel like this should be easier than what I'm making of it, but I feel so confused! Many thank you's in advance

Disclaimer: I'm just googling this too, but with Dottie mostly gone maybe more of us need to pitch in and two heads are better than one, perhaps...

Are you looking at something rather like page 10 of this? If so, I don't think it's comparing the score that would be expected from his WISC with what he achieved on the WIAT at all. I think it's simply comparing his scores on different parts of the WIAT. That is, I think Difference between Mathematics and Math Fluency is his score on Mathematics minus his score on Math Fluency (I don't know what kind of score, exactly). His is very positive, meaning that he scored much better on Mathematics than on Math Fluency. I think the critical value is nothing to do with him at all, but is just saying what number in Difference should be considered a significant difference for this particular comparison. I don't know what Base Rate means, I'm afraid.

So I think you have a discrepancy recorded anywhere he did better on one part of the WIAT than on another. The 21 categories are all the possible pairs of the 7 parts of the test: Oral Language, Basic Reading, Total Reading, ... Math Fluency. (Order is ignored, so you get 21 = 7 x 6 / 2 .) Having lots of discrepancies tells you that he is a kid with (currently) rather uneven achievement as measured by this test - which you knew. Notice that the way it works, you can get a lot of discrepancies from rather simple causes. E.g. consider a child who has a score on 1 of the 7 parts which is much higher than all his other scores, and a score on another 1 part which is much lower than all his other scores. Every comparison that involves either of those parts is going to come back as a discrepancy - that's 11 discrepancies right there. In fact, is that what's happened for your DS? Mathematics being his high outlier score, and Math Fluency being his low outlier, perhaps?

Overall I think don't panic! Looks to me as though this may not actually be carrying surprises.

The "difference" is the difference between the two scores, the base rate is the percentage of the norming sample that showed the same discrepancy. Uncommon discrepancies (those that occur in less than 10% of the norming sample) are more likely to be significant.

IIRC, his low scores were primarily on measures of fluency, both in mathematics and in oral expression and written and oral fluency. This could be indicative of any combination of the following; an LD, poor fine motor and/or oral motor output, problems with attention, or problems with the fact that the material tested may have been so far below his working level that he had difficulty paying attention or generating appropriately complex responses. If the fluency scores were in the average range and only "low" relative to the very high achievement in other areas, that may be indicative of nothing more than age-appropriate motor and memory skills, which are, from a developmental perspective, to be expected even in highly gifted children.

Further investigation is warranted to determine which of these is responsible for this pattern, because that will determine whether any further intervention beyond the clearly needed academic acceleration is warranted. If there are LD, motor, working memory, or attention issues, they may not have shown up as issues in the classroom yet, because the work has been so far below his challenge level, but, if present, they have the potential to become bottlenecks as the pace and volume of written work increases, so identifying and remediating now would be preferable to waiting to see if he starts to struggle.

It is worth noting that fluency measures that fall within the average range are generally nothing to be concerned over: fluency measures things like speed and accuracy of written and oral output, and ceiling effects may come into play in these sorts of measures very early on. Very high scores in other areas can still create a "significant difference" between those measures and fluency, but that difference may be significant because it shows that higher-order skills are significantly advanced, not that fluency is lacking.

In no event should evaluating him for potential problems take precedence over appropriate acceleration now.

Thank you, thank you ColinsMum! I feel better just knowing that you are understanding and took the time to write back Yes, page 10 is exactly what I've been looking at and fretting about You are right...His math problem solving is at 90% but math adding flunecy at 6% (he showed slow processing on his IQ's and I just realized that this math fluency was timed, so I had to chuckle a little there...No suprises) What really surprised me was the so low (5%)pseudoword decoding when the kid reads and comprehends college textbooks...Just so odd to me. One more thing that alarmed me was when I got a copy of the test and the three low scores he received (pseudoword decoding, spelling, and adding fluency) were circled...I don't know why, but I just feel like they are going to come at me with that for some reason, though those areas really (to me) have really no relevance to the subject acceleration we are asking for...Or does it? With such low percentages, do I need to be concerned with a hidden LD? Should I be questioning them about services or any accommadations? Non-timed tests for instance? Are his low percentages in those areas low enough to qualify for a LD? (5%, 13%, and 6%)Sigh...

Hi aculady! Thank you, thank you...I feel like I can breathe better now! Thank you so much for your thoughtful and clarifying response... I am so grateful to all of you