Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment What would you do? Test scores for my 4yr old

Hi! I am new and have questions about applying to DYS (mainly :)).

We are missing the cutoff for Verbal by a tad on the WPPSI for DYS. What would you all advise? I know he must be 5 to apply.

Should we wait until he can take a WISC so we can get a more realistic number for those subtests where we had ceiling issues? Should we retest next year with another WPPSI? I'm unsure of what we would include in a portfolio to go that route.

On the otherhand are his scores just too low on the IQ test meaning he is likely not PG and we should enjoy the other resources like the Forums here instead?

He is our first child and it has been difficult to know what we have and how to handle situations that keep coming up already (like teachers complaining he's distracted and him complaining he is bored and doesn't want to be there).

We have only begun taking "gifted programs" this summer and already I am feeling that even in this identified population we still don't quite seem to fit and he sometimes gets bored.

Glad for any advice or words of wisdom from you more experienced parents.

He's way too young for you to draw the conclusion that he's not PG. You have a couple of data points for a young child, that's it. I honestly have no idea what DYS is, though.

DYS is the Davidson Young Scholars program. It is run by the Davidson Institute for Talent Development, the same folks who bring you this forum.

Go ahead and apply. The worst they can say (and probably what they *will* say) is "need more info."

My ds was tested at 5y5m and was just short on his WPPSI (148 FS) but had qualifying WIAT reading and math. They asked for more info. I sent in a pretty strong portfolio a few months later, and he was accepted with that.

I included a few work samples (not crazy advanced); a few pictures he'd drawn with odd things in them (a landing spot labeled "surface," a hurricane with the eye and eye-wall labeled, a few photos, and two videos: one of him talking about tornados, his erst-while obsession, and one of him talking through a math worksheet. The math one wasn't crazy advanced, but his fluent reading of the word problems and his enthusiasm both showed. Send me a PM if you want to see what I did.

Good luck! No harm in applying.

Thanks! And Mia, I may take you up on that offer.I'm wondering if it matters that our testing was done at 4 (instead of 5 or later). It seems hard with the little ones to know what to submit or really even to mentally differentiate between the gifted levels. When I was a kid you were either gifted or not.

My child scores highly on IQ math but just avg on the achievement
side of math. He is crazy verbal and loves to build and invent "tools" to accomplish tasks. On the other side his fine motor skills are lagging which is what makes work products most difficult for a portfolio.

Entering the program at 5.5 what aspects of the DYS services have been most useful to you?

This is a frustrating situation, and the reason why nowadays we don't talke about 'gifted or not' anymore. LOG (level of giftedness) makes such a difference.

Did any of the gifted schools look good?

I would encourage you to apply, and to send the 'raw data' along with the scores - that 19 could be 'barely 19 or an 'way way better' than 19' and could count extra.

Don't worry about fine motor skill and the portfolio - in the old days one had to be 'across the board' gifted to be 'gifted' but nowadays there is a much deeper understanding that some areas might be 'age appropriate' or even a bit below. Send in what you have - video of your child chattering away usually is impressive and fairly painless to get.

If your child isn't PG by DYS standards, then he is certianly HG, which is high enough to be bored by a 'regular G' curriculum (in my mind that is the definition of HG, actually)

What are you going to do with him from now until kindy?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I am so happy to have your responses. Grinity you are a wise woman and excellent at getting to the point with all of this.I have enjoyed reading your posts in other threads.

I started to videotape him today. He read the magic school bus book about Climate (i.e. global warming)and then called his grandparents to "teach" them about making changes to emit less C02 "Greenhouse Gasses". I have three months till he's 5 so I've got some time to work on this.

That is good to know about the raw data! From what I had read on the site, I was afraid our score was just too low and we'd have to try again with an extended scale when he was older.

I like the idea of a 3 day program...Asynchronous Development really is difficult to work with at this age - it does get easier as our children grow (I think)

Is the 45 minute program the same 'JrK' ? It's ok that it might take them 6 to 8 weeks so see your son in detail, as long as he is happy and behaving.

I was clueless when my son was this age - I was working, he was in daycare and that was that! Sure the teachers would complain about strange behaviors, but he was there as part of my plan to 'make him regular and less like mama' - ha HA on me! I'm so grateful that he taught me exactly why I felt so 'wrong' in everyday life. And he may have learned some valuable lessons - who knows?

Anyway - the point is that when I look back and ask myself - if I knew then what I know now, what would I have done with him? And my mind draws a total blank!!!

So Flexibility is Key - and you are showing a lot of flexibility here - so you are on the right path.

Look up 'handwriting without tears' on the Internet and buy some of their stuff and keep plugging away. Think of it as a chance to practice 'calm assertive leadership' if you can't make it fun. Already at 3 my son was showing perfectionistic behavior about his handwriting skills, and begging me to 'draw a picture' for him - and I did, because I had no idea what I was seeing and he seemed so unhappy!

I also liked the Ed Emberly stick figure drawing books.

Stick around and write more books - those words are 'better out than in,' yes?

Smiles,
Grinity

Thanks! Yes it is great to get the words out in an understanding place. And I hope you are right that the Asynch improves over time somewhat.

Oh...? I'm not sure which thing you are referring to with 45 min program Grinity.

Handwriting without tears is such a GREAT program! Our Psychologist (who has been a wonderful resource to help me realize just what I am working with in my son and suggest some of our better options) said the handwriting was virtually non-existant and we possibly had a 2E kid on our hands. She recommended OT for him.

She got through to me...I immediately (as in calling the next day) enrolled him in an OT handwriting class and I ordered some HWT materials for home. The OT class showed us he loved mazes! (I had to find really complicated ones to keep him happy.) It didn't do much to improve the HW though.

However HWT was amazing! Night and Day difference that his Preschool teacher (at a church based regular preschool)was floored by. I went on the next month to take the full two day instructor training and I currently lack one course (in evaluation of handwriting issues)to being certified by HWT. I've started tutoring other children on the side.

My son can now write and draw recognizable things. It's still not his favorite thing to do but before he would simply refuse and say "I don't color" and writing was only scribbled out mess before. (Yes perfectionism was a MAJOR part of this for him too. He was able to tell me this when asked. He explained that he was trying to hide his writing/drawing with scribbles b/c it just didn't look good.)

I don't believe we would have figured out our son was so unusual had we not been getting information from my MIL and husband's aunt (both well educated teachers). At 5wks when they first met our son, they started telling us we were going to have trouble with school. (Of course my husband was doing Pre-Algebra in 1st grade so his mom had some experience with unusual children.)

So how did HW work out for you from that 3yr old moment where perfectionism held your son back? And how did you come to realize your son was so exceptional?

Does anyone know how many of the DYS kids are accepted at 5? It seems most start with this at an older age? Part of me says "don't rush things" and the other part says "the more we know now, the better we can support and prevent educational crises".

In regards to building a portfolio...Does anyone have suggestions on how do you make sure that videotaped items are understandable? Sometimes it's hard to catch what my son is saying on recordings.

I meant the school that was 45 minutes away - sorry!

It think it's great that you are taking the HWT training - there is a huge need to do handwriting practice with gifted kids! I bought 'The print tool' and have had success with 2 gifted kids in having them analyse their own handwriting using it's tools. I wonder if you can eventually do this over skype and be availible to all gifted kids with handwriting issues everywhere?

DS15 wasn't generally have many perfectionistic behavior - the writing and drawing was an exception. With him is was 'behavior issues' that signaled by 2nd grade that 'something had to be done.'

I don't think that there is a downside to applying to DYS at age 5 - I think most families don't do it because it's hard to realize that the child's issues are connected to high LOG giftedness at such a young age. Easier now with the Internet, if one is looking.

When I was growing up, giftedness was assumed in our family. I didn't understand that LOG could make such a difference.

Best Wishes,
Grinity