Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional New here, test results and need insight!

Hi all,

This is my first post in these forums. I just got back my sons results today. I've been trying to make sense of them for a few hours and I'm at a loss (note, I'm 9 months pregnant and my brain generally turns to mashed potatoes during pregnancy!). I would grately appreciate any insight into what we have going on here...I realize he isn't off the charts, but there is some scatter in my opinion. I'm going to give you every single score because I have no idea which ones are important (scaled sum vs. composite, etc). Here goes!

Scale Sum of Scaled scores Composite Percentile 95%
VCI 38 114 82 106-120
PRI 40 121 92 112-127
WMI 27 120 91 111-126
PSI 22 106 66 96-114
FSIQ 127 120 91 114-124

VCI Raw Score Scaled Score Percentile
Similarities 24 15 95
Vocabulary 32 13 84
Comprehension 16 10 50
(Information) 13 10 50

PRI Raw Score Scaled Score Percentile
Block Design 26 11 63
Picture Concepts 14 10 50
Matrix Reasoning 29 19 99.9
(Picture Completion)17 9 37

WMI Raw Score Scaled Score Percentile
Digit Span 16 13 84
Letter Number Sequencing 18 14 91
(Arithmetic) 24 16 98

PSI Raw Score Scaled Score Percentile
Coding 34 10 50
Symbol Search 20 12 75

It was noted that he has a high score in working memory which is not often seen in children with ADHD. Which brings me to a little history, he has been dx with almost everything..take your pick. So far he has a depression, ADHD, temper dysregulation disorder, tourettes, aspergers, OCD, etc...Obviously, he has several issues that fit many criteria. He is doing well though on medication (risperdal and zoloft) and is stable...His issues do not affect his grades, although the end of second grade he was on a downward sprial (most grade issues were for incomplete assignments or not following directions on the assignment).

The WJ-III test is as follows:

Test Standard Score Grade Equivalent
Broad Reading 121 5.7
Broad Math 113 3.5
Broad Written Language 99 2.7

Basic Reading Skills 122 6.0
Reading Comp. 111 4.1


Math Calculation Skills 101 2.9
Math Reasoning 116 3.8
Brief Writing 100 2.8
Written Expression 103 3.1

Beery-Buktenica Developmental Test of Visual Motor Intergration

Standard Scores Percentiles Age Equivalents
Beery VMI 72 3 5yrs 11 mnths
Visual Perception 121 92 11 years 5 mths
Motor Coordingation 110 75 10 yrs 1 month

It was noted that he is seemingly two years behind his peers in handwriting and other necessary school tasks.

And not that it has to do with these tests, but the Aspergers scale was an 80 (high probable) and ADHD was 74 (markedly atypical, very significant).

I suspect dyslexia, although he was not tested for it. And more of the stealth dyslexia that I've read about as he didn't really have issues learning how to read (although he sometimes struggles with comprehension). What does the discrepency in the beery VMI and the other two point to?

His handwriting has always been an issue, although at times he can get by. He has a very hard time copying from the board, and you have to tell him a million times to do something. There are tons of other issues, just thought I'd throw those out there.

I am also posting this in the twice exceptional forum if thats okay (even though no LD were identified). I can give you more background on his behavioral/emotional issues if need be.

I'm sorry to be so ignorant about all of this...I really want to help my son in any way that I can, and I know part of that is understanding this and how to better help him.

I hope I'm making sense! Its past my bedtime...anyways, thank you all so much for any insight you can provide, your advice will be invaluable to me!

Sorry I forgot to note that he is 8 years old and just finished second grade. I'm also confused about how to figure out his GAI...it says the sum of the six subsets, and that calculates to 78, so I don't think I'm doing it right?!

Thank you again!

You are right that there is some scatter, although it is not extreme. I have a 2e DS9, similar to yours, in that all of his scores pretty much come in above average, but there are some areas that his achievement is lagging behind his predicted ability.

In looking at your son's scores, you need to compare the look for a discrepancy of more than 15 points. This is the criteria that is used for defining a learning disability. Your son's FSIQ is 127, so when you look at the 4 subtests of the WISC, you should be concerned about anything that falls under 112. So for your DS, processing speed (which is commonly lowered by ADHD) is an issue for him even though it is above average. His VCI is borderline at 114, so he may have some issues going on there as well.

You get to the real meat of the matter when comparing the WISC scores to the WJ scores, again looking for that 15 point discrepancy. It looks like you are correct, that your son would be considered to have a disorder of written expression and a reading disorder. You can get even more detailed by comparing each of the 4 subtests on the WISC to their corresponding tests on the WJ, but that is beyond what I am familiar with. My DS used the WIAT and the neuropsych gave me a detailed report explaining his predicted scores on the WIAT based on his WISC scores. It was very insightful.

The frustrating part is what I am dealing with now. You know there is a "reading disorder" and a "disorder of written expression". But you these tests don't go any further in defining the disorders or telling you what has caused them and if they can be fixed. There are general accomodations that are suggested for children with a disorder of written expression....keyboarding, scribing, voice recognition software.

That's where my knowledge ends. HTH!

[/quote]
The subtest total feeding into the FSIQ is 127, but the FSIQ itself is 120, so readjust those comments back a half a standard deviation from 112 to about 105. Our school uses 1.5 standard deviations, which is 22 points difference. [/quote]

Thanks Dottie! I missed that with all the numbers posted! And yes, I guess all school systems are different. Our school system uses 15 points in elementary school and 30 points for upper school.

Wait, so that means according to the school his IQ is really 105-112? Or is that the numbers where a discrepency would be noticiable? Sorry I'm so confused about all of this.

And if the low processing speed is explained by ADHD, than what would make his beery VMI so low when his visual and motor are both high? That one has thrown me for a loop as well (which is obvious by now is not hard to do...I again blame it on my pregnancy..lol).

Thank you all again ladies, I have no one else to bounce this off of and I truly appreciate your responses!!!

No, his IQ is 120. His VCI actually isn't very low compared to that. It is 114, so only 6 points lower. That is within normal deviation, so no significant scatter. I'm sorry I confused things, I accidently looked at the numerical total of the subtests (127) on the FSIQ line, not the actual 120. So ignore the 127 and everything I said in reference to it.

In regard to his IQ of 120...you'll have to ask your school district what the discrepancy is between IQ and achievement that they consider to be a learning disablility. For our school system, it is 15 points. Looking at your scores, his writing scores on the WJ consistently fall below 105 (15 points below 120), so it would appear that he has a disorder of written expression. The only other test that falls below 105 is math calculation.

I'm afraid I don't know a thing about the beery VMI.

I see what you mean. His processing speed falls at 106 so that would more be considered a discrepency, but I understand that the GAI is just the VCI and the PRI combined.

If you want to really understand the GAI, google WISC-IV technical report 4. It has all the information on how to calculate the GAI and when it is apppropriate to use it instead of the FSIQ.