I just read this whole thread through and my question is: nature vs nurture what?

If you are talking about innate talents, which many are, then nature wins. But if you are talking about long term success, my vote is on nurture.

And to be nice, what do Einstein, Picasso and Oprah have in common? Hard work. All applied themselves to what they were doing to be a success.

All the really contented adults, and I am going with contented since I have no broad swath of psychological insight, have good work habits, stayed in their jobs, whether they were NG, MG, or PG. They are disciplined. And one of the things we commonly complain or are concerned about is the lack of challenge gifted children find in regular schoolwork and the long term problems of bad habits that lead to unsuccessful long term outcomes.

So my kid is a whiz at math. I could do my engineering math without homework, it came easily to me, but I didn't learn anything. I did not have good habits. When in a job, I got into it, skimming, treading water, and when I could achieve easily, got bored. I got lucky after many bad decisions and a career that peaked early by a husband that had really good habits, which got him into Harvard and medical school. He has taught me good habits, which now I teach DD.

So nature made me a whiz at math, nurture made me long term unsuccessful. I don't care if DD can play the piano better than 90% of the kids her age. I want her to learn to practice, to do it the way her teacher wants -- which requires practice. Right now she has to do one piece with a pizzicato staccato. She has to train her fingers to be able to play this technique on the piano. It isn't about talent, it is about practice, training, building the muscles. Just like she has to build muscle strength to do her chin ups and pullovers in gymnastics.

And I make her to do it for good habits, not to be a concert pianist. And that is what I tell her. She can't quit piano, not until she learns to apply herself and work to do her very best. That is the lesson from taking piano lessons.

Because, in my opinion, nature gives her options, not long term success.

Ren