Yeah on the healing from the trauma of tantrums bit wink

I'm not sure they're really oposite approaches. Here's a go at it: At the most basic level, both approaches are about getting through strong feelings in one peice. Maybe the Nurtured Heart stuff is really just a tool for using the Hand in hand stuff.

I know that when my dad died, there was no better way than to cry (and I'll admit I gave myself asthma attacks). But when I got a bad exam result on one course I took while I was pregnant, DH took a big bite out of the feelings by grilling me on what I lost marks on. He was convieniently able to declare my prof an idiot, and outline the strategy he'd use to ace a test marked like that. I threw the frustration and anger into using it, and got very nearly 100% on the entire second half of the course, including the final smile

I'm still a little frustrated I didn't actually learn the material for that course, but I like my GPA, and the U actually noticed and took my complaint more seriously because of it. Experience handled.

I wonder if one could use the Nurtured Heart stuff as the same kind of an outlet. "I'm so mad right now I'm gonna MAKE myself calm down and MAKE mom understand." If mom manages to meet THAT challenge, it's gonna feel good for the kid right? Really good. Because now the kid gets points for being calm, points for understanding/explaining themselves clearly, AND mom gets points for trying to actually solve the problem. Suddenly everyone looks like last week they were off working interstellar miracles with Picard wink

And when the problem's insoluble, mom says "Well, I think you need a good cry," but she really understands why... which is right full circle to the "listening" part. Maybe a better kind of listening than the kind where you just hope you'll get it in the gasps between the sobbs.

(For the record, I think we may be well into that discussion I was in dire need of :))

So: What is the shape of the 'right answer?' (That's usually a good place to start)

One of the things the Hand in Hand page said that caught my attention was the "I felt like I knew how to parent" thing... that's confidence, but it's also technique. And your "That bag of chips was made for adult hands to open, you try three times and then I'll open it" kinda unpacked it for me -- A lot of the time, what I need is a technique. Something that I can pull out of the back of my mind, and use in a kind of rote fashion, in the moment, through whatever kinda disaster is happening. Right, disasters: There's a radio show called "Afganada." In one of the early episodes the woman who will later be revealed as a gifted military commander is thrown into her first command in the field. The show plays back the voice of her now-dead commander training her for command. Most of it is sound bytes, and she follows it in lockstep. And it gets her through. When she gets to a safe place, she thinks, and having made space for herself to think, she thinks good.

OK: free association session over.

I think that the shape of the 'right answer' may be a toolbox, containing the kind of sound-byte style ideas Kinsella used in Afganada. Stuff I can USE, but also that DS can HEAR, and maybe find useful at some key time himself. Stuff that will help him recognise a) that he's doing something difficult, b)i) that he can learn, ii) that it's ok to want to learn, c) that learning will likely be frustrating, and d) that he can handle frustration.

In which case, here's my first guess at an answer:

-- "That was made for [adult hands], try thrice, and then I'll help you"
-- "Watch how I do it"
-- "You're really frustrated, what's frustrating?"
-- "First, take a deep breath, then take a good look"
-- "One more for luck" (I say this anytime DS is being patient, but loosing patience, so if he's half dressed for outside and he's timing out, I say this, and then get one more piece of clothing on him. Then we open the door so the temp drops or something similar, and wait. Then we start again until done)


Anybody got 2cents on them?
smile
-Mich


DS1: Hon, you already finished your homework
DS2: Quit it with the protesting already!