I agree that girls aren't encouraged as much as they might be, especially in conservative families and geographical areas. My sisters-in-law were certainly made to feel less bright than their brothers. As one example from my life, when I was making my 12th grade schedule, it had 3 AP classes including math, as well as advanced-level language. I forgot to add science. I took it to the guidance counselor, and he saw the hole in my schedule and asked if I should add another class. His suggestion was home economics. Being me, I responded, "Look at my schedule. Don't you think physics would be a better fit? But I should take home ec. because I'm a girl, and my destiny is to become a housewife, not a scientist, right?" He turned red. The senior student helping him said, "She's right!"

Yes, one can correctly say that these are just anecdotes. But we sure have a lot of anecdotes on this thread, and I sure have heard/seen a lot of anecdotes in my time. Like the old math or philosophy of science books I read that talk about MEN studying these subjects and never (or rarely) PEOPLE.

Originally Posted by ConnectingDots
As aeh noted, there doesn't seem to be evidence that boys are more likely to be gifted than girls.

My understanding is that there has historically been more variance in male IQ scores compared to female scores. When I searched the web for this idea, I found a lot of old data that showed that males outnumbered females in the lower* (<1 or <2 SDs) and upper (>1 or 2 SDs) ranges. Some of this data went back to 1932. Then I found this interview, dated 2012. According to James Flynn, female IQs have been rising faster than male IQs in recent decades in developed nations. In the interview (and presumably in his book), he talks about the effect of circumstances on IQ --- on everyone, not just women. Groups that have historically not been given opportunities seem to gain more when their circumstances improve. This would include females, minorities, historically poor families, etc.

The problem, I think, is that people can use variance in scores to make prejudicial or distorted assumptions: I heard that more [insert group Z] are gifted than [insert group Q]. That [group Q kid] over there can't be as smart as her parental unit is claiming.


Originally Posted by coffee
He sort of chuckled and said, "Well, she's the sort of girl who really would have been better being a boy".

I was stunned. And we certainly WON'T be sending her there. And it makes me wonder how many girls are subtly discouraged from displaying maths based skills because they're girls.



Hmm. Definitely an obnoxious remark. He might have been trying to be funny (and failing miserably). I understand how it would be, ahem, rather offputting. At the same time, I don't think I'd reject the school because of one lame remark. The unfortunate fact of this society is that sexism persists. All our daughters are going to have to deal with it, and IMO, turning away from a potentially good school because of one bad remark could send a message to a girl telling her to avoid science and engineering.

At the same time, I would have written a very pointed email to the principal of the school and maybe even to its board of directors asking why the director of admissions made such an obviously sexist/tone-deaf statement and if the school had a policy of discouraging girls from entering STEM fields. Standing up to this sort of thing is the only way to end it. that said, if the director was being sexist and if his attitude represents the school, I wouldn't be in a hurry to send my daughter there, either. There is "standing up to something" and then there is "sacrificing your kid's mental health pointlessly."

*My current understanding is that males still outnumber females in the lowest 3% of IQs, but that this is due to hereditary diseases that affect IQ. Overall, these conditions predominate in males. They include conditions like fragile X syndrome, Prader-Willi syndrome, and etc. I'm pretty sure than Down syndrome affects more males than females as well. I also know that one of the more common of the female-only diseases (Turner syndrome) doesn't affect IQ.

Last edited by Val; 12/29/15 03:07 PM. Reason: Clarity