apm221, our 2e ds' situation was different (in terms of challenges and needs), but we were able to successfully advocate for an IEP in elementary school in spite of his high ability and achievement levels, at a school where we received a *lot* of pushback. Here are a few tips based on our experience - they aren't in any particular order, and I don't know that any of them will be helpful for your situation, but fwiw - here they are!

1) I'll second the suggestion of finding a local advocate if you can. Sometimes you are able to find an advocate at no cost - look on the yellow pages at wrightslaw.org to see if there are any groups listed in your state. Even if there isn't a contact # listed for your area/city - if there is a group in your state call them and ask what resources are available locally, or ask if they can help from a distance.

2) It helped us tremendously to have a private diagnosis report stating needs that could be related to classroom/academics. I realize you don't have that yet, but maybe you can think outside the box a bit - would your pediatrician, for instance, be willing to write a letter explaining the impact of your ds' challenges in the classroom?

3) Does your ds have any similar challenges at home or in other group settings? Although it doesn't seem to relate directly to school, it's additional evidence. On one hand, it might simply be illustrating that he always deals with "x" when placed in a situation that "y" occurs (as opposed to his classroom behavior being viewed by the school as oppositional, purposeful, unmotivated etc), or otoh, it might illustrate that he reacts in way "y" when faced with boredom or frustration or lack of challenge - i.e., it's simply more evidence that when placed in a situation that (fill in the blank) occurs, your ds will react with (fill in the blank).

4) The school staff told us over and over again "there is nothing we can do". But there are things they can do - that "nothing we can do" statement means something else - either "we don't see a problem" or "we see a problem but don't understand it" or "we see a problem, we understand it, but we aren't going to do anything about it" are just a few of the most-likely things behind the statement. No matter which meaning is behind it, the way to approach it is the same - arm yourself with knowledge of *what* is behind the behavior (as much as you can), and *you* put together a list of what could be done to help in the classroom and to help him develop life/coping skills. This may sound intimidating or difficult - but it doesn't have to be. Think through the situations you've described to us, write them down, and then brainstorm a solution that you think will work. That's your starting point. Then look at your state's education website - is there any documentation there stating "typical accommodations" (most likely under the SPED section, possibly in a handbook). Might not exist in all states, but it's there in the state I live in. See if any of the "typical" accommodations match ideas you have - if they do, these will be the accommodations that will be (eventually) easy to get. That doesn't mean you don't ask for the other accommodations/remediation/etc your ds needs - but by knowing what is typical you can see if those are thrown out in a meeting to appease you, and if they are, you say "that's a good idea, now let's review these additional needs". When they say "that's not something we've ever done for other students" or whatever, remind the team that you are not meeting to discuss other students' needs, you are meeting to discuss the unique and individual needs of your ds.

5) Don't ever forget the phrase "Free Appropriate Public Education" - you are seeking access to FAPE for your ds. Remind the school staff of that when they stone-wall you.

6) There is a letter that specifically addresses the issue of whether or not IDEA applies to children who are considered "gifted" - I think it's called the Lillie Felton letter - but may not quite have the name correct. You can find it on the wrightslaw website (or if HK is lurking in this thread, I think she has a link - I'm pretty sure I've seen her mention it a few times here :)).

7) Our ds had high IQ and achievement scores (in his case, the achievement scores didn't match IQ across the board due to his disability, but they were still higher than what they needed to be to qualify based on low achievement scores per official school district policy). What did help was having one key test that he clearly didn't perform well on, and it also helped to be able to show the not-so-obvious ways in which his disability subtly impacted the IQ testing and the relationship of IQ to achievement tests. I don't know what that test or report will be for your ds, but try to figure out what specifically might be challenging him and see if you can't get testing or a behavioral survey or whatever that will capture it. An updated eval by your SLP which includes the CELF mentioned above might be a good place to start.

8) You mentioned difficulty with open-ended questions - this may not apply at all to your ds, but fwiw my ds struggled tremendously with this, and the test that captured it for him was the TOWL - there is a part of the TOWL which requires the student to look at a picture and write about it. Write anything at all - and my ds who couldn't answer open-ended questions also couldn't write enough words for his test to be scored. That was, for him, the test result that the school simply couldn't argue with. They *did* try to administer it to him twice and had the same result. They didn't believe that it was due to an actual challenge but thought he was being obstinate, so they picked another portion of another test (a subtest of the PAL) to try to test the same type of challenge but without having to write from an open-ended picture prompt, and once again, he scored very very low.

9) I found that for my 2e kids (I also have a younger dd with a second e) - the WJ-III Test of Cognitive Abilities was more helpful in capturing the degree of a discrepancy when it was a very narrow area of challenge. My ds has an obvious discrepancy that jumps out on the WISC (relatively low PSI subtests), but my dd does not. On the WJ-III, my ds' challenge jumped out as even more obvious (higher ceilings for areas of strength, and one specific subtest that caught the challenge, and on the WJ-III it showed up as a lower percentile (significantly lower) than it did on the WISC. My dd had the WJ-III before the WISC testing, and on her WJ-III there was, again, one single subtest that had a significantly lower score than the others, and it was something that the tester was then able to verify was an issue. It impacts her ability to read, and when she was later evaluated by a reading specialist, most of the testing she had (which would also be the type of testing she received at school) showed up average or above average, but a few specific subtests buried inside of other reading specialist tests showed the same discrepancy (same cause). Later on our dd had the WISC administered and nothing showed up as a discrepancy (at all) on the WISC - there just isn't a subset that grabs that particular ability clearly.

10) My ds' 2nd "e" didn't really appear as anything other than behavioral issues during K-2nd grade - but it was, in fact, an actual challenge that was directly impacting his ability to do his schoolwork. Your ds may simply be bored, or he might have some type of challenge that is making it difficult for him to cope in the classroom. I really *really* wish we had understood his challenges better when he was younger (he was diagnosed at the end of 2nd grade), and truthfully the pieces were there to hint strongly that there was a challenge, but it simply took time and real-world experiences to understand what was happening. It also took a lot of observing, trying things out, and re-thinking things as the elementary school years went by. He was ultimately diagnosed with a second "second e" in later elementary - but we had to get through finding and accommodating for the first e before he could demonstrate enough of his knowledge for us to realize there was still another "e" lurking. You'll also most likely find that during the next few years, as your ds matures, he will start to be able to share with you connections between how he feels and what's going on with school, classroom, etc - and that will help you too in putting together the puzzle pieces.

11) You've heard from the schools "there is nothing preventing him from doing grade appropriate work (evidenced by his high scores on standardized testing)." When this statement comes up, just ignore if you can the comment about "grade level work" and refocus the conversation back on the specific challenges that are preventing him from "COMMUNICATING HIS KNOWLEDGE". Sorry for the caps! - but it's a very important distinction. The school might not be required to educate him beyond their grade-level curriculum, but they are required to allow him to communicate his knowledge.

Last thing - you mentioned "both public and charter schools" - just a small detail, but in most areas, "charter" schools *are* public schools that receive Federal and State funding, so they are covered by the same legal requirements under IDEA and ADAA as your neighborhood public school is.

I hope some of that helps - sorry it's so long! I suspect if we were sitting down together I would have another 9 million things to suggest - some of it not terribly encouraging. It took us several years to get an IEP for ds, and ultimately once we had the IEP it was "weak" and we had to rely on private therapy/tutoring/etc to truly remediate. I hope you'll have better luck in getting what you need for your ds through school.

Best wishes,

polarbear