Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Introduction and ...help with schooling choices?

I have lurked around here for some time, keep going and coming back. My 6 � yr old seems like he fits HG+ and his education has presented so many challenges already. I keep coming back here for ideas, silent (imagined?) camaraderie, and hope for the future. Finally we are at a crossroads where I think things could go very well next year if I do the groundwork now to make sure that happens. He has been self teaching for most of this year after a very rough year for K last year. He is now at 5.3 EPGY math (I read it was rigorous so started him at 2.5, but it doesn�t seem that challenging yet) and going strong, half way through Life of Fred Fractions and finding it to be intuitive and easy (he likes reading about a little kid being really smart and pretty dumb about life at the same time). He has high level analytical skills, but still writes at a snail�s pace. He hates to read, but somehow seems able to read anything as a means to an end. He plays intermediate piano and beginning (end of year) clarinet. So� why do I have so many doubts about where he fits? He hates classes that don�t challenge him, but thrives when the bar is set high. He still does nearly all of his math in his head so I do not actually know how he gets his answers. At times I think he doesn�t even know. He is a kid in motion, both mentally and physically, to the point of exhaustion for me. He�s loud. I�ve already made a nuisance of myself at school and feel like I am perceived as pushy and bragging when I�ve been rather desperately searching for a smoother path. After discussing the issue with a teacher again in looking for a better fit next year, I again feel like crawling under a rock. I am filled with doubts, insecurities, sense of responsibility to do right by ds and even my dearest local friend thinks it is my teaching that is responsible for ds� high achievements. He didn�t even hit gifted on an IQ test (and yes, there were many, many problems with testing so hard to say) and his only achievement data is from regular (2-5? 3-6?)MAPs through the school, both shortly after turning 6 (215 math and 189 reading but broken down to K level vocab and 5th grade critical thinking). Now we have three schooling options on the table. I realize the limitations to advice from strangers, but please still help me sift through and predict potential pitfalls and successes with the rich BTDT and brains of this insightful online population.

Our choices right now appear to be 1) fully homeschool 2) Private school where he will be working at academic levels in independent subjects 3) Part time public school where he may be able to do higher level material, but I will have to push for it.

He would be thrilled to homeschool full time. I, on the other hand, find that I am tired, sore and sometimes ready to curl up and cry when I don�t have a break from him. It sounds awful, but he�s actually such a delight and I wish I had the energy and passion to keep up. IF we decide to homeschool ft next year we would probably move away from a formal math program, especially if he gets through the elementary EPGY, and do a science heavy curriculum that applies the math he has learned. I have NO IDEA what I would do about language arts. He�s hard to teach and currently is doing everything on his own. How wrong is that at 6!

I just don�t know if I can do it.

The private school we found is amazing. It is not a gifted school, just one that believes in teaching to the individual. He would be at age-grade and be in the appropriate groups for individual subjects. Sounds fabulous. But� our family would have to relocate to a place where there is not much to offer other than the school. Really? Seriously?? We do this for one kid? But he was more himself the one day we spent at the private school than he has ever been at the school we are at now. Kids seemed VERY accepting of each other. We would send our other kids there too. The expense is doable, but with sacrifices. Is there some argument for dedicating this money toward extensive testing and curricula suggestions? Gifted schools and Tiger moms are not in our future.

The option of part time school is what we have been doing for the last two years. It has kind of, sort of worked and often not. I endure the venomous critiques on our drives home. His teachers mostly like him. He�s well liked by the kids, but � the feeling isn�t mutual. He�s lonely. Just today as I brought up with his teacher tweaking a class he abhors, she was under the impression things were going great. Sigh. He�s a nice piece of furniture. They observe bugs in class, chart weather, etc. He just wants more purpose and depth. Teacher willingness to accelerate him is lukewarm, though we do have the full support of the principal and the district enrichment coordinator. Sure, we could force the issue, but a full grade acceleration would make minimal, if any, difference. The conversation today did yield a new strategy for the remainder of the year to try to raise the bar for him in the class. If this can be done then I *think* next year we could continue part time, not move, and I would have a few breaks. I would have to be a bother to each of the teachers in turn for independent tweaking in each class to avoid pushing for acceleration. If I push for acceleration I�ll be talking about trying to move him to 4th and up classes. He is just a kid genuinely passionate about genuine learning.

Clear? Thoughts? Thanks from a blundering newbie.

How old are your other children?

I don't think it's good that a six year-old is critical of the authority figures in his life. It's too cynical at his age (not that I don't understand and agree with him!). So I'd be inclined to give up on the school. Your son sounds more advanced than my kids and I know my kids could learn all they need in an hour of two a day of instruction (althought they are avid independent readers, so there is a difference there). I doubt the school is currently adding much to what he is already learning at home.


If you are willing to homeschool, but just don't want your life to revolve around it I am sure there are ways to do this. Why not allocate the tuition money to an au pair or full-time nanny and home school? The private school option will always be there.

With regards to him being loud - I have trouble tolerating this and have made it a priority to encourage my kids not to get loud in the house. I think it's OK to impose this, especially as it makes us all enjoy each other's company more.

Welcome Justin -
So glad that you delurked!
Because you haven't met 25 more kids just like him....I highly recommend an application to DYS, even with the current scores you have, doing the portfolio and the Map tests.

I didn't find the link to see where he is compared to other 6 year olds (was he in first grade at the time? Was it before EPGY? Will the school be doing MAP again soon? - I hope so) Inky - what do you see?

It may even be that the IQ and MAP tests show a very spikey profile with a 'bright' average. You may want to list the subscale scores just in case - or just look and count the 17,18,19 scores on individual areas of the IQ test. If you are seeing HG+ then I would bet that is what he is. You can try reading Deb Ruf's 5 level's of giftedness - as long as you remember that Level 3 is where PG starts.

Get a video camera rolling of your son doing his hardest math in his head, and talking about a super-hard book he read and why he chose that book and what he needed it for.

You can also visit hoagie's page and look and see if any gifted conferences are in your area.

Anyway - it took me seeing, with my new parent eyes, a few other HG+ kids to turn around and see my own child better.

((Cue Linda Ronstadt singing "Justine"
Don't forget about the little things our hearts do-oo-oo))
When I see this I think[B} 'move' [/B} so you can be near the new school.

Of course I don't know
a) if you have a house to sell
b) if it would create a killer commute for any of the adults in the family
c) how many babies live in that shoe with you
d) how bad 'not much to offer' is
d.5)if you have other family commitments that tie you to where you are now

or most importantly....
e) how many years you would expect to get from the school before he ran out of classrooms to hop to.

As far as I can tell - you have already decided in your heart that the private school is worth a try, but are feeling still a bit reluctant to turn your families world upside down to meet the needs of only one member. I can say from my experience that when a kid has special needs, then the parent finds themselves making choices that look odd to the rest of the world. And that's ok.

It might be worth talking some more about what your current location offers the other family members, how many kids are actually doing classed 'above age level' at the school, what the school has done in the past with kids who are 'way high' in just one or two areas and have run out of classmates.

Finally, I want to congratulate you on being honest, with us and with yourself, that as much as you love your kid, you weren't built to be all things to him. That shows very good honesty and very good self-aweness. 3 cheers for putting your air mask on first before assisting others. These kids are special needs, and the more you can give him by way of peers and teachers who 'get' him the better.

Smiles,
Grinity

Is it time to buy more testing?
I don't get the sense that you need it. Remember that you can have him take the SATs as young as age 9, and although he probably won't get 800, even a 500 at age 9 will be good enough documentation that he is HG+.

In your case it sounds like dc is working 4 years up in math. Even with the most teach to the child's level private school, I'd want to see some examples of what they have done in the past with kids working that far ahead in math/reading/writing/science. Not just in terms of them getting the classes they need, but what the kids' schedules look like. So often, even in schools like that, the kids get grouped into 3 groups - even if the kids in the "top" group are "wicked smart" your dc could be an outlier. And outliers are hard to accommodate from year to year at any school.

That being said dd loves her school, and with luck, will get another year of outlier accommodations next year. For us the decision has had to be year by year, so I would be very wary of selling the house and moving to the perfect school because it might only be a good fit for a year or two.

(Advocacy meeting today so I'm trying to balance my optimism and practicality...)

Grinity, is this through a Talent Search? If so, do you know which one? I always see SAT starting at 7th grade on them, or others using Explore. Just wondering since the Explore really isn't offered around us.

I have to ask; is the reluctance to homeschool at all related to a sense that homeschooling is something that "other" people do? Meaning, kind of a fringe-dweller, slightly KOOKY thing to do?

If so, admit that this is a barrier in your thinking.

We were also VERY reluctant homeschoolers. So we initially went into it telling ourselves that it was "only until the end of this year," and then "until about 3rd grade, when {DD} can advocate for herself better in a classroom."

She's now 11 and hasn't ever been to a "regular" school classroom.


Kids that are really 'different' require really different solutions to meet their needs. That's all.

I'll also note that I can sympathize with homeschooling a child that is high-intensity. Mine is one of those, too, and my DH and I both are fairly volatile as well.

This can easily prove a toxic mixture, as you've astutely realized already.

The trick, as someone else noted with the loudness part of things in particular, is to insist on firm BOUNDARIES when education happens at home.

"No, I'm sorry, but I cannot allow you to leave that open container of mold in the refrigerator because this is where we store our food."

"At the end of this trial, you'll need to put things away for now, because it is time for quiet hour. Let's decide on a safe place for your apparatus."


"Help me with some ideas of things you could do with your quiet hour each afternoon. I will need for you to work on something quietly and independently, without making a big mess, during that time each day. What can you think of?"

I'd also make it very clear that at least some amount of respect for adult authority figures isn't "optional."

I mention that because I have an 11yo DD that doesn't feel that even her PARENTS have any "right" to "tell her what to do." This is a dreadful situation, since she is still very much 11 yo, in spite of having the debating skills and vocabulary of a high-paid defense attorney. Fair warning.

One needs to call College Board and ask for an application and then fill it out and mail it in.
Tip 1 - choose a testing center far enough away where your child won't have to hear from their friends that the babysitter/older sibs saw them at the SATs
Tip 2 - Remember that all the scores are automatically erased the June before 9th grade, unless you send in a written request otherwise.
Tip 3 - I hear that ACTs are shorter than SATs - it is a long time to sit still. We did SAT because in our state folks dont speak ACT.

enjoy,
grinity

Welcome! Just a couple quick comments. I wouldn't move anywhere until you had talked to a few parents of similar kids at the new school, if you can find them. Also, how far is the new school? We made the decision to drive our son 45 miles each way to get to a school for HG kids, which seems crazy, but it's actually made things much less stressful in our lives. We are no longer spending all that time advocating and worrying. And if you really are thinking of moving, look into more options than your one private school. Privae schools can pretty much do what they want and change their minds if things aren't how they want them to be.

Good luck in your decision making.

CFK - I can't speak to this point because there are no agreed upon definitions of giftedness or of the levels of giftedness. I certainly appreciate that a Level 5 kid has educational needs that a level 3 kid doesn't have. But I also think that it's a terrible shame that all kids don't have educations that challenge them appropriately - the level 1 kids I think are terribly short changed.

******
Isn't it tricky not to mess of the family dynamics over a kid's special needs, while being flexible enough to try and accommodate to the best of one's ability? Such a balancing act we walk, yes?

But this balancing act develops the 'mom-gut' confidence over years and years, and that has been quite a comfort to me.

Smiles,
Grinity