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    #232105 - 07/06/16 11:28 AM College Credit w/o Jeopardizing College Admissions
    Quantum2003 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/08/11
    Posts: 1425
    I think we might have had a prior discussion or two regarding the potential risks of earning too many college credits if the student decides to pursue admission at some of the more selective colleges. If anyone can access the links easily, please post them here as I can't seem to locate them. I believe the issue had to do with freshman admission versus transfer student admission. One year of AP credit leading to sophomore standing is not a problem whereas actual college credits can be a problem although I am not certain how many credits before it becomes a problem.

    In our district all qualified students are encouraged to take a few college courses. There are a number of colleges involved in such "early" programs and at the community college the first four courses are free and subsequent ones are discounted. These are primarily aimed at Juniors and Seniors but there are provisions for Freshmen and Sophomores as well.

    I was going to wait another year until DS/DD are finishing middle school before investigating but I recently discovered that my incoming 8th graders qualify for admission under their "gifted 8th graders" program without even placement testings. Apparently, 8th graders can gain admission with just 500+ scores on every section (Math, Critical Reading, Writing) of the SAT or 21+ scores on the three corresponding sections (Math, Reading, English) of the ACT. I am trying to figure out whether it makes sense to meet with their Admission Director this summer to gain admission or wait until high school right before they need to take their first course.

    I guess I am asking two separate sets of questions. The first set relating to the title of the topic and the second set relating to timing of admissions.

    Actually, I have a third set of questions relating to multiple sources of college credit. In addition to AP credits, my kids will have some credits from this community college and a private university (due to CTY scholarships) and likely one of the state flagships as well. Does anyone have older kids or family members who are further along and have dealt with or as least examined these issues?

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    #232111 - 07/06/16 12:01 PM Re: College Credit w/o Jeopardizing College Admissions [Re: Quantum2003]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4224
    I'm linking this thread (currently found in the "Learning Environments" forum) to the "College" forum, for the benefit of any future visitors who may look in the "College" forum to find discussion on this topic.

    Originally Posted By: Quantum2003
    I think we might have had a prior discussion or two regarding the potential risks of earning too many college credits if the student decides to pursue admission at some of the more selective colleges. If anyone can access the links easily, please post them here as I can't seem to locate them. I believe the issue had to do with freshman admission versus transfer student admission.
    This is summarized in a post on the old thread Community College Credit or AP better?: "... over the years several parents have cautioned that earning college credits may, in some cases, prevent a student from entering a college as a Freshman when it is their desire to enter as a Freshman. Rather they may be given Transfer Student status."
    The sources summarized may have included discussions on other gifted forums and/or College Confidential. You may wish to check the websites of any colleges to which your child/ren may apply, regarding the institution's admissions and/or transfer policies, keeping in mind that these may change at any time.

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    #232114 - 07/06/16 03:20 PM Re: College Credit w/o Jeopardizing College Admissions [Re: Quantum2003]
    NotSoGifted Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/14/12
    Posts: 445
    The answer to your title question will depend upon the college your kiddo ultimately attends. It may also depend upon the college where they take classes while still in high school (or middle school).

    I have one entering senior year of college and one who will be a freshman. While they did not take dual enrollment classes or similar, they know kids who did. For the most part, selective colleges won't accept college classes taken in HS for college credit (but they may work for placement). I am speaking as a resident of PA, and I know things can vary - things work very differently in CA.

    In our area, the community colleges are a joke. You would be much better off taking AP classes at the HS. In fact, if you want to take a summer class to accelerate in math or science, our district HS only approves of classes at certain area private schools. Classes taken at community college are only accepted for remedial purposes.

    There are some great private colleges near us, and we have six 4 year colleges within a few miles of our home. Some kids take math at these colleges when they run out of classes at the HS.

    I doubt that taking a few courses at a local college while in HS would make a college applicant a transfer student rather than a freshman. One of the key phrases here is "while in HS" - if you get your HS diploma then take a college course or two, then try to enroll as a freshman, you may have a problem.

    Also, before your kiddo takes any of these classes, find out if they go on the HS transcript and how they may be weighted (or not). Taking a very challenging college course while in HS could have some unexpected consequences.

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    #232120 - 07/06/16 05:11 PM Re: College Credit w/o Jeopardizing College Admissions [Re: NotSoGifted]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3288
    Loc: California
    Originally Posted By: NotSoGifted
    I doubt that taking a few courses at a local college while in HS would make a college applicant a transfer student rather than a freshman. One of the key phrases here is "while in HS" - if you get your HS diploma then take a college course or two, then try to enroll as a freshman, you may have a problem.


    Yes, exactly. My understanding from my son's dual enrollment (DE) program is that college classes taken during high school don't make you a transfer student. Some kids in DS's DE program get AA or AS degrees before they graduate from high school, yet still apply as freshmen. The key there is the word "before." They're careful to schedule their high school graduation so that the college's graduation ceremony is before the high school ceremony, even!

    When they enroll in a four-year college, the college then looks at their transcripts and makes decisions about class standing. In California, community college classes count toward class standing if they've been approved for transfer credit. I used to work at a CC and know this for a fact.

    Alternatively, MIT assesses each class individually; its math department won't accept credit for math classes taken anywhere else:

    Originally Posted By: MIT prospective student FAQ
    Q. I'm taking some classes that count for both my high school diploma and credit at a local university. Can I get MIT credit for these?

    A. As long as a college or university documents your study on its official transcript, it is eligible for MIT credit. Each case, however, is reviewed individually by the appropriate MIT academic department; departments have the final say on what study earns credit. (MIT's Math Department does not grant credit for any dual enrollment study.)


    Edited by Val (07/06/16 05:16 PM)
    Edit Reason: Clarity

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    #232121 - 07/06/16 05:49 PM Re: College Credit w/o Jeopardizing College Admissions [Re: Val]
    ElizabethN Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/17/12
    Posts: 1390
    Loc: Seattle area
    Originally Posted By: Val
    Alternatively, MIT assesses each class individually; its math department won't accept credit for math classes taken anywhere else:


    This is not strictly true - I transferred from UC Berkeley to MIT, and my math classes did mostly transfer (although they made me take Differential Equations over again, but I probably could have gotten out of that if I hadn't waited until the last possible second to submit my transfer credit application). They won't give credit for dual-enrollment classes (although they will give placement after testing), but they will give transfer credit for university classes of adequate quality if they were not taken during high school. I know that the question was about dual-enrollment classes, but I didn't want anyone to be confused.

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    #232459 - 07/24/16 12:51 PM Re: College Credit w/o Jeopardizing College Admissions [Re: indigo]
    Quantum2003 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/08/11
    Posts: 1425
    Thanks, Indigo. That link was helpful. Part of the problem is that it is a bit early to know which colleges will interest them 4+ years down the road and so there are many potential colleges to check.

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    #232460 - 07/24/16 01:06 PM Re: College Credit w/o Jeopardizing College Admissions [Re: NotSoGifted]
    Quantum2003 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/08/11
    Posts: 1425
    That is a nice summary of many of the issues, NotSoGifted! Ultimately, this is so difficult because we don't know where DS/DD will end up for college. We also don't know in which college/colleges they may end up earning credits while in high school.

    In DS' case, he will be required to take at least one math course at one of the area colleges in order to graduate high school. Due to CC, the highest level math course at the high school is AP Calculus BC, which DS is scheduled for sophomore year. He can take it easy and take AP Statistics as a Junior but he needs a 4th math course.

    I need to figure out how good/bad the community colleges are as well. They are preferable to the university from a financial consideration. Why pay thousands for a course when you can pay hundreds or even zero?

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    #232461 - 07/24/16 01:16 PM Re: College Credit w/o Jeopardizing College Admissions [Re: Val]
    Quantum2003 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/08/11
    Posts: 1425
    Val, that is exactly one of the issues with which I am concerned. We have a program where high school students can graduate with an associates degree. Our state university accepts credit transfer from our community colleges. Most of those students appear to go on to in-state universities where it would be great to have junior standing. A few did go on to elite universities where I am assuming that they would have at most sophomore standing. If DS/DD decides on our state university, I would love for them to go in as a Junior due to financial considerations. However, if they decide to apply at elite colleges, I don't want an associate degree to cause issues.

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    #232462 - 07/24/16 01:21 PM Re: College Credit w/o Jeopardizing College Admissions [Re: ElizabethN]
    Quantum2003 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/08/11
    Posts: 1425
    So the key distinction seems to be courses taken during high school, at least for math courses at MIT. DS/DD will have credit (not dual enrollment) for at least one course at a top tier college so it will be interesting to see how that will be treated.

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