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    #207063 12/06/14 12:36 PM
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    This has been in my thoughts lately although the idea has often crossed my mind, especially when my kids were younger.

    The article focuses on some of the causes and effects of parents overvaluing their children.

    https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/the-problems-with-thinking-your-kids-are-the-best-104342889877.html

    When my kids were younger, I had erred on the side of undervaluing, which has led to some strange incidental results. For example, my kids responding on the CTY survey that they were average when their scores exceeded the award ceremony levels.

    While the article focuses on parents' overvaluation, my concern these days are actually the overvaluation on the parts of teachers and other third parties. On the one hand, it is nice that teachers/staff recognize your children's abilities and stellar characteristics. On the other hand, I am not completely comfortable with the extravagant praises and sometimes even the awards/prizes.


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    I agree-- it's a tremendous amount of pressure to "be extraordinary." Maybe even to "be #1" and incorporate it into one's identity. frown

    It's the root of why we've chosen to simply advocate for what our DD seems to need educationally without having a lot of numbers and evaluations in hand, and we haven't pushed competition (since she doesn't seem to be very competitive by nature anyway).



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    My school age daughters (8 and 6) go to a private all girls' school. There are some exceedingly competitive mothers but they tend to want their children to be good at EVERYTHING - to be clever, the "best" swimmer, the best in dance etc. Those children, I think are overvalued and under enormous pressure already to be "the best". They are, in my opinion, hugely over scheduled with family time compromised by after school activities. These are the kids whose mums tell them to "run slowly" during the heats in sports day so they end up racing against slower children and are therefore more likely to win a ribbon, who promise their children gifts (an iPad!) if they win an academic prize, who organise the school readers so they know what level every child is on and can therefore complain (weekly) to the teacher when they feel their own child isn't progressing quickly enough, who travel over an hour away to go to the "best" dance teacher for their competent but not particular talented child, who tell their daughters they are "little princesses" and dress them in miniature versions of their own designer outfits.

    The families I know who are more realistic and pragmatic tend to have kids who enjoy their extracurricular activities and who try hard and are happy to acknowledge others' talents. My girls are both very academic and do get prizes and praise for their skills but they don't rate their own talents any more highly than their friend who can do amazing cartwheels, or another who is a champion runner or a classmate who is already amazing at art. DD6 is aware of how mathematical she is; she's had a few school based tests and is clever enough to realise the impression she's made but when a friend of hers pointed out that the was probably the worst in her class at art she more than readily agreed. (I felt a bit affronted on her behalf but she didn't care a jot).

    As a mum of two very clever girls (and I think the other two kids are heading that way too) I'm aiming for the "end game" of university. So minimising any external fuss made now because eventually, they're going to (hopefully) end up studying with kids as clever as them and I don't want their whole self esteem based around them being "brilliant". DH and I were both "gifted" as children and easily the top of our schools but not the top of our chosen uni cohort. We also applaud their efforts and progress in their chosen sports where they're doing well but certainly will never win any prizes.

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    When my kids were younger, I had erred on the side of undervaluing, which has led to some strange incidental results. For example, my kids responding on the CTY survey that they were average when their scores exceeded the award ceremony levels.
    Some may say this is modesty. Some may say there is a difference between under/overVALUING and under/overESTIMATING.

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    While the article focuses on parents' overvaluation...
    This article may be fluff, but draws attention to the researcher's article published days earlier, and to the research study, which are both interesting reads. Some may say the article does not have great fidelity to the studies, but seems to draw in personal anecdotes. As the article's author bio mentions being a parent to an almost-6-year-old, some may wonder whether portions of the article may be aimed at the kvelling of specific parents. For example, the thoughts about how much time a child should be on the field in a soccer game.

    This article was published a few days after the researcher's article was published in the Washington Post, in which the researcher cites the work of Carol Dweck regarding praise* and does not mention soccer.

    In reading the links for the study resources, one of the tells was described as "When parents overvalue their child, they... perceive their child as more gifted than actual IQ scores justify". The researcher attributed this to narcissistic parents who were described as feeling superior and desiring admiration.

    The study also suggests, "overvaluing parents want their child to stand out from the crowd. One way to accomplish this is by giving children a unique, uncommon first name." Hopefully we are not to be suspect of each family which has bestowed unique names upon their child/ren, understanding the parents to be narcissists with a sense of superiority and entitlement, needing admiration?

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    ...my concern these days are actually the overvaluation on the parts of teachers and other third parties. On the one hand, it is nice that teachers/staff recognize your children's abilities and stellar characteristics. On the other hand, I am not completely comfortable with the extravagant praises and sometimes even the awards/prizes.
    To help us understand your lived experience which has informed your view, would you share examples of the praises, awards, and prizes which you've seen as indications of overvaluing, and with which you were uncomfortable?

    Another link from the study resources cites a 2004 study which discusses the Psychological Entitlement Scale (PES): "Entitlement is at the heart of many questions concerning the distribution of resources in society, from tax breaks and social welfare to university enrollments and even access to good seats for football games." The study preview goes on to describe the broad range of individuals with a sense of entitlement... crossing SES and majority/minority culture, from successful athletes to criminals preying on the weak.

    *The work of Carol Dweck regarding praise: This has been posted on other threads, but since there are always new members joining the forum, and since the article mentions Carol Dweck... One aspect or application of Dweck's work is that gifted kids may stop taking appropriate risks in order to always be "right" or always be "smart" or never be "wrong", and this may work against them as a fixed mindset and lack of resilience. The concept of fixed mindset vs growth mindset is nicely summarized in these youtube videos:
    Ashley Merryman & Po Bronson: The Myth of Praise (link-
    )
    Carol Dweck: Teaching a Growth Mindset (link-
    )

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    Personally, I don't want my DD to be the best as much as to try her best.

    Whether it is called drive, grit or conscientiousness it all comes from that inner NOT outer voice. This is all I want my DD to develop an ear for and learn to listen to.

    Statistically, given her intellect, her best ought to put her amongst The Best but the old leading a horse to water but not being able to make it drink comes to mind.

    What I do NOT want her to learn is that 10-15% effort being all it takes if the bar is so low (and it is in US schools ) to get the task completed is OK.

    I encourage her to play team sports because she is a bit of a klutz but she has improved considerably due to learning that pushing herself pays off. Her chances of making a ladies World Cup winning squad are about the same or less than my winning the lottery but learning to persist is priceless.

    Last edited by madeinuk; 12/07/14 07:54 AM.

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    I dislike the term "overvalued" when used in the context of a pressured child because it's a misappropriation of a positive term (valued). There is no such thing as a child who is too loved or valued, but there is such a thing as a child who is artificially made to fulfill parental expectations and showered with hyperbolic praise at the expense of healthy emotional and psychological development

    The Atlantic published a lovely article on "elephant parenting", which provides a healthy counterpoint to tiger parenting. It respects the vulnerability of childhood and provides a safe outlet for intrinsically motivated growth. Children need love and respect, coupled with appropriate and progressively more difficult challenges. The path to independence is best forged with gentleness on a schedule which honours the child's inborn readiness to achieve certain milestones.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/12/the-case-foror-againstelephant-moms/383378/


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    Ha my dd has an unusual name and I think she's super gifted. Oh wait I have proof about that...

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    wink I thought about that one, too, Mahagogo. My DD also has an unusual given name, but her more commonly used nickname is not so unusual. We planned/chose her name very carefully-- it had to be: a) unusual enough that she wouldn't have two other people with her name in a kindergarten classroom, b) potentially androgynous if she chose to use it that way professionally as an adult, c) okay with our surname, and d) able to be shortened to a more feminine/normatively "girly" (read-- ending in "y" or "i") nickname. Oh, and first and foremost, it had to be something that NOBODY would think "wow, what a strange name!" about.


    It was hardly narcissism. Then again, maybe the author meant "weird" like... Moon Unit. Or something. grin DD isn't the ONLY person on earth with her name. Facebook and LinkedIn list a sparse handful of them, in fact. Given how common our surname is, that isn't that strange, either. If DD's name were "Megan" or something similarly common, though, there'd be THOUSANDS.







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    maybe the author meant "weird" like... Moon Unit.
    The researcher shares a bit of the process and procedure, in his Washington Post article:
    To test this, we used a national database to obtain the proportion of children who were the same sex and born in the same year as the children in the study, and we found that overvaluing parents were indeed more likely to give their child an uncommon first name.
    Not an especially weird or unusual name, but uncommon in that birth year.

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    Ds has an unusual first name but I changed the spelling slightly to allow for a far less uncommon short form. Mostly he prefers the short form.

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