This has been in my thoughts lately although the idea has often crossed my mind, especially when my kids were younger.

The article focuses on some of the causes and effects of parents overvaluing their children.

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/the-problems-with-thinking-your-kids-are-the-best-104342889877.html

When my kids were younger, I had erred on the side of undervaluing, which has led to some strange incidental results. For example, my kids responding on the CTY survey that they were average when their scores exceeded the award ceremony levels.

While the article focuses on parents' overvaluation, my concern these days are actually the overvaluation on the parts of teachers and other third parties. On the one hand, it is nice that teachers/staff recognize your children's abilities and stellar characteristics. On the other hand, I am not completely comfortable with the extravagant praises and sometimes even the awards/prizes.

I agree-- it's a tremendous amount of pressure to "be extraordinary." Maybe even to "be #1" and incorporate it into one's identity.

It's the root of why we've chosen to simply advocate for what our DD seems to need educationally without having a lot of numbers and evaluations in hand, and we haven't pushed competition (since she doesn't seem to be very competitive by nature anyway).

My school age daughters (8 and 6) go to a private all girls' school. There are some exceedingly competitive mothers but they tend to want their children to be good at EVERYTHING - to be clever, the "best" swimmer, the best in dance etc. Those children, I think are overvalued and under enormous pressure already to be "the best". They are, in my opinion, hugely over scheduled with family time compromised by after school activities. These are the kids whose mums tell them to "run slowly" during the heats in sports day so they end up racing against slower children and are therefore more likely to win a ribbon, who promise their children gifts (an iPad!) if they win an academic prize, who organise the school readers so they know what level every child is on and can therefore complain (weekly) to the teacher when they feel their own child isn't progressing quickly enough, who travel over an hour away to go to the "best" dance teacher for their competent but not particular talented child, who tell their daughters they are "little princesses" and dress them in miniature versions of their own designer outfits.

The families I know who are more realistic and pragmatic tend to have kids who enjoy their extracurricular activities and who try hard and are happy to acknowledge others' talents. My girls are both very academic and do get prizes and praise for their skills but they don't rate their own talents any more highly than their friend who can do amazing cartwheels, or another who is a champion runner or a classmate who is already amazing at art. DD6 is aware of how mathematical she is; she's had a few school based tests and is clever enough to realise the impression she's made but when a friend of hers pointed out that the was probably the worst in her class at art she more than readily agreed. (I felt a bit affronted on her behalf but she didn't care a jot).

As a mum of two very clever girls (and I think the other two kids are heading that way too) I'm aiming for the "end game" of university. So minimising any external fuss made now because eventually, they're going to (hopefully) end up studying with kids as clever as them and I don't want their whole self esteem based around them being "brilliant". DH and I were both "gifted" as children and easily the top of our schools but not the top of our chosen uni cohort. We also applaud their efforts and progress in their chosen sports where they're doing well but certainly will never win any prizes.

Some may say this is modesty. Some may say there is a difference between under/overVALUING and under/overESTIMATING.

This article may be fluff, but draws attention to the researcher's article published days earlier, and to the research study, which are both interesting reads. Some may say the article does not have great fidelity to the studies, but seems to draw in personal anecdotes. As the article's author bio mentions being a parent to an almost-6-year-old, some may wonder whether portions of the article may be aimed at the kvelling of specific parents. For example, the thoughts about how much time a child should be on the field in a soccer game.

This article was published a few days after the researcher's article was published in the Washington Post, in which the researcher cites the work of Carol Dweck regarding praise* and does not mention soccer.

In reading the links for the study resources, one of the tells was described as "When parents overvalue their child, they... perceive their child as more gifted than actual IQ scores justify". The researcher attributed this to narcissistic parents who were described as feeling superior and desiring admiration.

The study also suggests, "overvaluing parents want their child to stand out from the crowd. One way to accomplish this is by giving children a unique, uncommon first name." Hopefully we are not to be suspect of each family which has bestowed unique names upon their child/ren, understanding the parents to be narcissists with a sense of superiority and entitlement, needing admiration?

To help us understand your lived experience which has informed your view, would you share examples of the praises, awards, and prizes which you've seen as indications of overvaluing, and with which you were uncomfortable?

Another link from the study resources cites a 2004 study which discusses the Psychological Entitlement Scale (PES): "Entitlement is at the heart of many questions concerning the distribution of resources in society, from tax breaks and social welfare to university enrollments and even access to good seats for football games." The study preview goes on to describe the broad range of individuals with a sense of entitlement... crossing SES and majority/minority culture, from successful athletes to criminals preying on the weak.

*The work of Carol Dweck regarding praise: This has been posted on other threads, but since there are always new members joining the forum, and since the article mentions Carol Dweck... One aspect or application of Dweck's work is that gifted kids may stop taking appropriate risks in order to always be "right" or always be "smart" or never be "wrong", and this may work against them as a fixed mindset and lack of resilience. The concept of fixed mindset vs growth mindset is nicely summarized in these youtube videos:
Ashley Merryman & Po Bronson: The Myth of Praise (link- )
Carol Dweck: Teaching a Growth Mindset (link- )

Personally, I don't want my DD to be the best as much as to try her best.

Whether it is called drive, grit or conscientiousness it all comes from that inner NOT outer voice. This is all I want my DD to develop an ear for and learn to listen to.

Statistically, given her intellect, her best ought to put her amongst The Best but the old leading a horse to water but not being able to make it drink comes to mind.

What I do NOT want her to learn is that 10-15% effort being all it takes if the bar is so low (and it is in US schools ) to get the task completed is OK.

I encourage her to play team sports because she is a bit of a klutz but she has improved considerably due to learning that pushing herself pays off. Her chances of making a ladies World Cup winning squad are about the same or less than my winning the lottery but learning to persist is priceless.

I dislike the term "overvalued" when used in the context of a pressured child because it's a misappropriation of a positive term (valued). There is no such thing as a child who is too loved or valued, but there is such a thing as a child who is artificially made to fulfill parental expectations and showered with hyperbolic praise at the expense of healthy emotional and psychological development

The Atlantic published a lovely article on "elephant parenting", which provides a healthy counterpoint to tiger parenting. It respects the vulnerability of childhood and provides a safe outlet for intrinsically motivated growth. Children need love and respect, coupled with appropriate and progressively more difficult challenges. The path to independence is best forged with gentleness on a schedule which honours the child's inborn readiness to achieve certain milestones.

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/12/the-case-foror-againstelephant-moms/383378/

Ha my dd has an unusual name and I think she's super gifted. Oh wait I have proof about that...

I thought about that one, too, Mahagogo. My DD also has an unusual given name, but her more commonly used nickname is not so unusual. We planned/chose her name very carefully-- it had to be: a) unusual enough that she wouldn't have two other people with her name in a kindergarten classroom, b) potentially androgynous if she chose to use it that way professionally as an adult, c) okay with our surname, and d) able to be shortened to a more feminine/normatively "girly" (read-- ending in "y" or "i") nickname. Oh, and first and foremost, it had to be something that NOBODY would think "wow, what a strange name!" about.


It was hardly narcissism. Then again, maybe the author meant "weird" like... Moon Unit. Or something. DD isn't the ONLY person on earth with her name. Facebook and LinkedIn list a sparse handful of them, in fact. Given how common our surname is, that isn't that strange, either. If DD's name were "Megan" or something similarly common, though, there'd be THOUSANDS.

The researcher shares a bit of the process and procedure, in his Washington Post article: Not an especially weird or unusual name, but uncommon in that birth year.

Ds has an unusual first name but I changed the spelling slightly to allow for a far less uncommon short form. Mostly he prefers the short form.

Yes that is pretty much the thought process we went through HK although we added a bit of inherent meaning in the name too. In the end we have her a foreign name, easy to say and spell but not common where we live. We also gave her the plainest middle name imaginable just in case she grew up with a staid personality.

It helps that NZ has 2 languages, we realised after she was born, the foreign name sounds very similar to a Maori name so unless people ask the spelling they assume we gave her a Te Reo name

Great one more thing I need to worry about... Am I over valuing my daughter? Am I not spending enough time with her? Am I spending too much time with her. Am I denying her educational opportunities? Am I hot housing her? Oh no.. Help, I am afraid I might break my daughter!

It appears the study that this article is based off is one that I would have to purchase which I do not intend to do. ( http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2014-45055-001/ ) This article ( Not necessarily the study which I have not read. ) leaves a distinct lack of real useable information. Yes, I can buy that the worst offenders of this practice may cause undesirable consequences to happen to their children and other peoples children, however after having read this article I could not point to concrete evidence that this probably true thing is in fact true. This is often the case with articles like this one.

A bit of information regarding research methods and scales, including the child in the self, transferred ambitions, reflected glory, and enmeshment may be read at the last link on this page. In reading this information, two things came to mind:
1) parents stating "WE are looking at xyz college/university", which evidently is abhorrent to some schools but others may say is a legitimate phraseology as parents often assist with research, campus visits, evaluation of "fit" and scholarships.
2) sports fans stating, "WE won", when a favorite team has a victory. Some expressions are a figure of speech and a normal part of our culture.

Possibly some may say the research overclaimed knowledge and was overvalued?

Parent bashing, flavour of the week, article.
And I agree one may overestimate one's child, but can one overvalue it? I freely confess to valuing my own kids over pretty much everything else, including other kids, and think it is the right thing to do.
Heh heh, and I do think my kid is quit likely the smartest kid not just in his classroom, but his whole school, and I think he deserves special treatment, different work, SSA or a grade skip, in fact I have applied for it, and we are in the process of evaluation for it. Could be that others think so too, ya know. Somebody please write an article about me.
Oh, but I believe that my child does not deserve a single minute on the soccer field, in fact is much better off keeping out of everyone's way. Does that redeem my parenting?

If you give up something really important for a child, that can put a lot of pressure on him or her to meet your expectations. In general, if parents are greatly invested in the success of a child, that increases pressure. I've had wonderful parents, but in my 20s, when I was worrying about my career direction, a big part of the worry was how they would take things, because a temporary reverse would disturb them as much as me.

It may sound cold, but one thing you can do for your adult children is communicate that the happiness of you and your spouse does not depend entirely on how well they are doing.

Indeed. and I think you just hit on the meaning of "valued" in the title. For clarification, maybe the article should be renamed to "The Overinvested Parent." That's where the real problem is.

There is such a big difference between thinking your child deserves to get what they need and thinking your child needs something special.

Of course, parents all should think that their own child is the most special creature on earth. We're wired to love our babies. The real trick is to raise our children to be hard-working, empathetic, kind creatures.

I don't worry that my children are overvalued, I worry that they value themselves.

We'll try, but my impression from reading the book "The Nurture Assumption: Why Children Turn Out the Way They Do" by Judith Rich Harris is that parenting has little ability to change these character traits.

True dat, and I have felt that pressure myself, and have resented it, particularly from my SAH mom. Though the highly educated woman that does not have to give up something really important for her children is rather rare, maybe not in all parts of the world, but certainly in mine, especially if those children are high needs children, as a lot of gifties tend to be. With my third child born with a major disability, my career is essentially over - I am barely hanging on to my part time job, and barely find time for my hobbies. It is what it is, and was chosen freely. But this has nothing to do with how invested I am in my child's success! I want to them to be happy and find intellectual satisfaction. For my oldest, that will mean intense science, and I care about his achievement only insofar as he'll need the record to access educational and professional opportunities.
The article talks about parents who live vicariously through their children. I am sure they are around, always have been, but not sure whether the deserve a whole article!

Glad to meet another Harris fan!

I got ahold of the original research article. Here is their test of overvaluation (responses are on a scale of 0-3):

They compared the results against personality measures of the parents, and, crucially, an objective measure of the parents "overclaiming" about their kid's knowledge. (This last was a pretty clever test. They asked the parents to rate their child's familiarity with various items from history, geography, and literature. Included on the list were some fake items. The extent to which the parent rates their kid as highly familiar with the fake items is the measure of "overclaiming.")

It's pretty clear that the research is not about parents who accurately evaluate their kids' unusual abilities, but rather, parents who want to believe that their kid is unusual, and are caught up in a narcissistic viewpoint of being "special" and more "deserving."

(Personally, the only item I would score high on is #3. I'll cop to a slight needle-twitch on #4, but that's because I love it that my child is weird like me. Still, that only gives me a score of 4 out of a possible 21.)

As usual, the popular press has missed the point. This isn't about, "bad parents, you're all over-evaluating your kids!" There's really no news here -- we all know that there are a few parents who are "like that." This research article is actually a fairly dry technical piece introducing a new measure for identifying parents who are "like that," and validating it (showing that it actually tracks what it is supposed to be measuring).

Yes, indeed-- which is ultimately why we opted not to pursue the two 'best fit' options for DD for undergrad. It would have meant moving-- or parents living apart for our DD. Too much pressure on her to "make good on" our investment there, both financial (of which she was keenly aware) and also by way of parental sacrifice (of which she is, if anything, even more keenly aware).

She already feels like she "owes" us because I had to walk away from my career path for her (disability-related, though, not GT related)-- no need to add to that.

I've seen research finding that people tend to overestimate themselves, and I think it's likely that that they overestimate their children, too. Almost all parents think their children should go to college, which is not realistic considering the distribution of IQ and academic motivation:

Is College Worth It?
Pew Research
May 5, 2011

Bostonian: Not sure how that relates to parents overestimating their children's abilities, because this was the very next sentence: "The main barrier is financial."

Many excellent points were brought up. Everyone clearly have their own worldviews and react accordingly. Often I find value in articles not so much in their truths but rather in their tendencies to provoke/challenge thoughts/beliefs. I think that unproductive pressure is an important consideration and to be avoided.

I believe that American society (not just individual parents of their own kids) in general overpraise and over-estimate children's abilities. I don't believe that was the case decades ago. I have also observed many children hold an inflated sense of self, which may actually be healthy at very young ages but potentially detrimental by late elementary. There is also the additional issue that a giant fish in a little pond may be no more than a little fish in a slightly larger pond.

HK,

I hope that you have made it clear to her that you needed to walk away from your career path because of you, not because of her. If she were my daughter, I'd want her to know that many parents are capable of having a career even with a seriously disabled child. However, under the circumstances, you felt like you couldn't do it. It has more to do with you than with her needs, so she shouldn't feel guilty at all. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it's more a matter of "this is what we chose because we felt that it was the best decision as parents, and that alternatives were not something that we felt WE could live with."

Nobody knows, when they become parents, what their future holds. That's simply fact. So that is how we frame it.

It wasn't really a "choice;" we did try for me to work for a time, but we had zero safe childcare, and placing my career over her safety was unacceptable. It felt morally repugnant to me.

I think that what we've emphasized to our DD is that this is not about "her" at all-- but about the VERY heavy responsibility that comes with being a parent. It can come with some deep sacrifices and choices that are pretty unthinkable until you've been there.

Many parents are capable of having a career with a child. Some of those children are disabled. But nobody gets a guarantee that if they try hard enough, it will be possible. Not all careers and all disabilities are amenable to it; it requires respite care and reliable childcare, deep financial resources, fortuitous geographical location, or extremely flexible employment-- or all of those things.

If she has her own children, that is a choice she will be walking into with her eyes wide open-- because her situation is about 85% genetic, at a guess (this is still being unraveled via research). The level of severity is the only real wild card. In her case, she turned out to be an outlier. We thought that we understood what was possible there (since we both live with the same condition). We didn't have a clue how life-altering that diagnosis could be until we were living it with our toddler, however. "Management" is more like living your life on the edge of disaster all the time, and scrambling to keep up.

So no, we didn't feel that varnishing this with something less than the truth was wise. She may have to choose to walk away from a carefully constructed professional life if she chooses to have children. She should choose wisely and consider what matters to her.

I have repeatedly told her that I don't regret my decisions for an instant. If I could take away her disability, of course I would do that-- but for HER sake, because it makes her life so hard. Not for mine. I don't regret a thing, because it has made me the person that I am today, and I like who I've become as a result of the experience-- I just wish that it didn't come with such a high cost for her.

It's a hard thing to put into words.

Well done and well said, HK.

Thank you HK, being on a similar path. I feel very similar about things. Only I could never have expressed it so well.

[/quote]

HK,

I hope that you have made it clear to her that you needed to walk away from your career path because of you, not because of her. If she were my daughter, I'd want her to know that many parents are capable of having a career even with a seriously disabled child. However, under the circumstances, you felt like you couldn't do it. It has more to do with you than with her needs, so she shouldn't feel guilty at all. Does that make sense? [/quote]

I have to healthy kids so I can't comment on that - and I won't.

I have to say though that the thinking that you can have it all - especially towards women is one of the worst forms of pressure we place on kids. Children these days expect to grow up being good at EVERYTHING. They need to be good at sport, art, academics, socialising, parenting, wealth creation etc. We keep telling them they can do this - and when it turns out they can't without extreme internal pressure they start to feel they are inadequate.

I think it's time we start telling kids that they can be good at one thing or many things, maybe not the best but with effort they can achieve mastery over the things they are passionate about. I think this type of pressure does contribute to the attitudes focused on in the article.

FWIW I gave up my career to parent my kids until they start school - then I'll be going into a diff field that allows me many more options to work around them. Yes I have been fortunate to financially achieve this (although we planned for many years to make it possible. There was no way I could do my work to 100% and parent the way I wanted at the same time. I can do it all, and do it well - just not at the same time.