Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy When meetings become HOSTILE - What to do??

Yeah-- word to the wise, here, on 2e issues?
Never-- but never assume that someone who is a lovely person and has treated your child with dignity and care for years is incapable of being callous to the point of cruelty when push comes to shove. Never assume that having your child within earshot will curb anyone's tongue.


Don't even ask how I know this.

A person who had spent an hour or two a week with my child from ages 5 to 9 yo as a coach/teacher and LOVED her-- or so I thought-- basically said (in front of her) that she was simply "too much trouble" to accommodate, that s/he was uncertain that we were "accurate" about risks, that even if we were, "other children" needed to be considered, that we could expect "no changes," and that we had to "decide whether or not this was something we wanted to do under those conditions."

This person also informed me (with my child standing there listening to every word) that "national counsel has advised us not to talk to you any more." S/he did forward me the most jaw-dropping series of e-mails from said national counsel in which my child's disability was mocked by a series of people to whom her medical information had been circulated (without my knowledge or permission). Apparently that was so extreme that s/he even found the callous disregard rather shocking. National counsel told them that the organization was not bound by ADA. (DOJ disagreed when I talked to them but whatever...)
Yes, this conversation was so unbelievably surreal that I kept wanting to pinch myself... I'm paraphrasing part of it here--

"But people are really attached to {practice}."

"Yeah-- but you do understand that this could result in a fatality, right?"

"Oh, of course. But people really like it. They're really used to it."


"Um-- you guys INVITED her to participate. Hounded us to, in fact. You knew about {condition} because you've known about it for years. We're really trying to work with you, here, but this is a risk that we and her physician just find unacceptable. I've not seen anything that explains the need for this."

{blank stare}

"Can you explain to me why {practice} is integral to the activity?"

"It's always been this way. People don't have anything else to do. You have to understand that {activity} sometimes takes a long time. Spectators have to have something to do."

"Why? Aren't they here to watch? Besides there is an area for {activity} and it isn't clear why it needs to happen in the area where participants are."

"Maybe she could wait outside in the car, or something like that."

"What? Where she won't inconvenience others?? Does she get her own special entrance, too?"

"Sure-- I think that we talked about that, in fact-- bringing her in and out the back way."



My DD repressed this conversation-- I know this because she was utterly SILENT and STRICKEN in the immediate aftermath, and her relationship with this individual (which had been warm and reverent for years) was never the same... though she claims that she "doesn't remember" this incident now. I know that she does, however. She loathes this individual, and has no respect at all for the organization, the location where they meet, etc.

This was also the time when my DD began vowing to become a civil rights attorney. To punish people like this. I'm encouraged that her response was ANGER and OUTRAGE, rather than self-loathing, at least.

The above is my personal standard for depraved indifference and callous disregard.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [/anecdotal horror story]

I bring this up mostly to note that there's "hostility" and then there's "HOSTILITY" with advocacy. On the one hand, this was unbelievable and it takes my breath away even five years later... but on the other, pretty much NOTHING that our school has ever tried even comes close.

It's also important to realize that to people who have never met your child-- they ARE just a professional problem to solve. It's not personal, and it's not even necessarily bad that they feel that way... but it does mean that it's crucial to stick to facts and to stay away from emotion, because emotional appeals will get you nowhere, and may indicate weakness. This was a group of people that MOCKED my child's life-threatening vulnerability... people whose entire professional existence revolves around CHILDREN. Simply because I had the gall to ask if they meant what they said on their national website re: inclusion and disability, and pointed out several specific practices that placed my child's life in danger.

Expect lip service.

Expect that emotional appeals will get you nowhere.

Expect them to talk about you (and your child) behind your backs.

Even when you KNOW that they are not seeking the same goals that you are-- TREAT them as though they are...

Consider every word, every letter, every phone call to be judged by outsiders in a court of law. Because THEY certainly are doing so-- at least if they are smart they are.

Escalate as SLOOOOWWWWWWWLY as you possibly can-- because collegiality among participants is nearly impossible to recover once you draw battle lines. If you bring in outsiders, that's escalation. It is ALWAYS unpredictable to do that.


Expect to document EVERY encounter with any of the participants, no matter how brief.

It's like cat-wrangling, at that point. They may not be willing, but as long as you don't give them much wiggle room and make it clear that you won't go away, MOST of the time you can get what you need from them. Grudgingly. But recall that you'll get NOTHING that you don't have in writing, so be thorough as you write things up.

Also-- do have a back-up plan and a trigger point in your own minds. DO NOT share that with anyone else, but always-- always be prepared to walk away if the cost becomes too high. In the above situation, we had no choice but to walk away. Couldn't go legal/medieval on them (though DOJ certainly encouraged me to-- in shocked awe at just how bad and shameless those e-mails were) because of a school situation in which we were legislative advocates at the time.

School > extracurricular, so there we were. I've not forgotten, though, and I'd HAPPILY take a metaphorical flame-thrower to the entire organization, from top-to-bottom and coast-to-coast.

Agreed. Unfortunately speaking ill of a child within earshot may be a technique to hasten a family's departure.

Agreed. Unfortunately, for a PG child without 2e dx, there is often no requirement for a public school to accommodate the child. Policies and laws, if they exist, often have no teeth.

While other children need to be considered, balance can be found between serving the needs of each.

I agree with so many people here that the point of the hostility is to get me to leave the school. I mean I've actually been asked why I just don't home school. For us it's just not an option so I move onward with hope and a prayer!

The other thing to consider is the profound emotional DAMAGE done to an HG+ child who is more than capable of comprehending adult conversations like that mentioned above.

My daughter was absolutely frozen with disbelief and horror. This was someone that she TRUSTED, that she adored.

Even as an adult, I found it hard to process this series of statements. As a 9yo child-- impossible. This was an epiphany for my child-- and NOT one that I'd have wanted for her. She's deeply bitter and cynical, and is often very reluctant to self-advocate because she KNOWS how superficial most people are about it.

I guess it is safer and better in the long run to know just how cruel and self-centered most other human beings are, but wow. Believe me, an HG+ child has NO difficulty with the underlying message; "You're nothing to me, in spite of how nice I've always seemed-- surprise!"

To know it at such a tender age is really distressing and damaging. Highly gifted kids are still children.

... to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves...

Yes. A springboard to explaining so many things, even adults of wealth and social standing may be intimidated and coerced to go along with an unjust system when their own job and well-being may be on the line.

This may lead to drawing parallels in history, studying the holocaust and more, possibly with the messages that:
1) We are not alone in our experiences. In reading parallels in history, which character do we relate to...?
2) At another time when we may be tested and coerced, which character might we relate to then...?
3) May we find ourselves strong-willed to altruistically do the right thing.

There's a saying that "You can't unbake the cake". At the same time, bibliotherapy and discussion may help process the situation.

HK, sorry for all you and DD have been through. Just sorry.

There is hostility in our community too; we've had to rescue DS from toxic situations. It still stuns me that while there is grudging acceptance of certain kinds of civil rights, others languish.

Please bear in mind that while several are sharing personal anecdotes which indicate a school may have used this or other techniques to force someone out... that we cannot speak to your situation directly... hostility in a meeting MAY be a technique to encourage a family to leave, just one thing for a family to consider to avoid being a party to their own demise.

Meanwhile on the subject of overheard conversations within earshot of a child, a side conversation encourages me to add:
Sometimes a child may be believed to be fully occupied with something else... a parent may initiate a conversation, join a conversation, add a topic to a conversation, or steer a conversation in a particular direction, and later be disappointed with the results/response. Just something which parents may need to be aware of, in the event they may catch their conversations veering into matters which they deem adult-only or potentially toxic for their children. Being mindful of this protects their children and also prevents sandbagging of relationships with other parents, teachers, etc. This does not in any way speak to the exact circumstances which HK shared, or attempt to explain or justify that person's words, which are reprehensible.

I am sorry if I discouraged you with our mention of leaving the school DS was enrolled in last year. Although they offered us the chance to leave very early in the school year, we decided to stick it out. stupidly believing we could just coach him to behave better in class (this was a private school, we would have had to eat part of the tuition even if he left). That particular school, though, was less hostile than it was just woefully uninterested in meeting his needs.

We left because we had an attractive alternative (one we were unaware of a year ago). Since that is not a good option in your case, all the suggestions about dealing with an unfriendly response are very good ones. We did find last year that documenting meetings (a habit from work, I always have a notepad), being prepared with research and being willing to call them out if they were being jerks helped. There was one comment the principal made in a meeting that was extremely rude toward DS, which was also unfactual. When I told DH about it, he went ballastic, which raised my ire as well.

I kept calling the principal until she picked up the phone and very matter-of-factly told her that we thought she had been rude and wrong with her statement. Then I stopped talking. She fell all over herself apologizing. This technique may be worth a try. Very polite bluntness followed by silence. People HATE silence. It is amazing what comes out of mouths when their brains want something to fill the quiet.

indigo-- you know, DD did a really extensive research paper on the subject of altruism as heroic behavior less than a year later. She studied the Righteous of Nations and the Holocaust for several months at 10yo, eventually concluding that nobody really knows why some people behave so badly, and others will sacrifice everything for people they don't even know. I have to think that this interest was ultimately triggered by that situation.

While she has always been OE on social justice, this changed her.

Now she becomes like some kind of avenging goddess. You know the transformation that Galadriel undergoes to scare the heck out of Frodo in LOTR? Yeah-- like that. This really surprises people because she is so easygoing and mild-mannered, and outwardly advantaged in every way. So it really surprises people when they reveal themselves as major bigots and she immediately downgrades them permanently in terms of respect and friendship. She views it as a kernel of irredeemable evil. Yes, they are human, but they also have just revealed sociopathy, and that tends to be a fixed attribute. It's that simple to her; she will NEVER trust such a person fully again. I used to think that this was simplistic of her, but I'm increasingly convinced that she's probably right.

I warn other parents about the possibility of exposing a child to that kind of adult hostility. It's horrifying to have your child listen to adults who SHOULD care for them-- being dismissive or downright hateful for things that they cannot help. Adults really underestimate how much of this children can understand and absorb. HG+ kids are far more vulnerable in that regard. Ironic, isn't it, that these same adults are often expressing concern about older peers or what is "age-appropriate" in some way...

I know other parents who strategize by bringing their kids into meetings-- to "personalize" the issues on the table, and make adults behave in a more professional and caring fashion. You know-- because little ears and eyes are watching. I know many families for whom this has worked wonderfully. Obviously you have to do it at some point with disability so that the child learns advocacy skills.

I'm issuing a caution about that practice as strategy, however-- because of the high cost to the child if that gamble does not pay off as expected. If the situation is already into hostile/contentious territory, DO NOT expect involving your child directly to improve things. There are truly adults who simply do not care. I wouldn't have even believed that until I saw it happen. Their attitude was that WE had "chosen to involve" our child in what should have been an "adult matter." I still disagree and think that if things are being said ABOUT my child that she shouldn't hear-- maybe the adults saying them ought to be keeping those things to themselves. Be aware that they don't/won't, and they'll blame you for the hurt they cause. If it happens to be a classroom teacher... be aware that you're asking your child to be compliant with a person who that child KNOWS is untrustworthy and doesn't care about him/her. Few HG+ children are going to take that well.

Finally-- consider that last point in a child with high social/emotional/empathetic skills. Even if they ARE NOT privy to details, if a classroom teacher reveals that kind of hostility, I'd consider that a do-not-pass-go kind of moment. No way do I believe that my child can remain ignorant about that adult's attitude toward her; I certainly don't need to tell her for her to figure it out.