Hi,

I would like to ask for some sharing of education and development of a mathematics gifted kid. Thanks.

My son is 3 years old now, and here is his milestones on math:

20m - read and know the numerical sequence 0-9 and know lots of opposite
21m - count object one by one and estimate number of object from 0-3 correctly by sight
24m - counts objects in subgroups, counts objects one by one to 12, knows numerical sequence from 0-29
25m - counts steps to 20 (when walking upstairs or downstairs) and develops concept in fraction, knowing that 8 of 1/8 will make a 1 and 1/3 is larger than 1/5
26m - know numerical sequence from 0 -100
27m - can count at least from 0 to 30 and know how to read clock in hour (o’clock)
28m – Count backward from 10 to 0, write “0” “1” “2” “3” “6”
29m – know the days of the week, months of the year and the words yesterday, today and tomorrow
30m – start interested in addition, can do some simple addition by counting fingers, (e.g. 2+3=5, 5+5=10)
31m - write all the numbers, write equation “2+3=5”
32m – do simple addition mentally (e.g. 6+3, 4+4), intense interest in numbers, knows even and odd numbers and know 0- 600, Count backward from 500, understand simple patterning
33m - do simple additions in ten and hundred (e.g. 10+20=30, 200+300=500)
35m – do simple addition with two digits (e.g. 45+45=90, 24+12=36, 82+85=167)
- interested in and understand simple concept of negative number (e.g. 3-5=-2)
36m - love reading digital clocks, temperature, etc. Start doing multiplication (he memorized the multiplication table by reading the table himself)

I don know if he is gifted or not, (as i saw many articles and find that some kids who are gifted seems more advanced than him) but he is a good learner and he enjoy learning, he always lead what he want to learn and asking me lots of questions. I would like someone to share their experience of having a child with advanced maths ability. What will they do in maths learning in kindergarten and elementary school if they have already learn all the simple additions/substations?

I live in North California , and my son will go to public school. I know his sch have GATE program for gifted kids but it is for higher grade students, right? (The school have 25% GATE students) so what to do in lower grade classroom?

I would also like to know what do u do for parenting and stimulating their maths talent? Any great toys recommend for preschooler?

Oh I have so many questions :P. Thanks a lot!

One option would be to have him tested for early kindergarten admission. NC has a statewide policy for early K admission: your child must have iq test results at the 98th percentile or above, and they must have achievement test results in either math or reading at the 98th percentile or above. There are other, less tangible, requirements too, which you can find online if you search for NC early kindergarten admission. The policies that govern this are in state statute, so in theory, all districts should have this option.

Tests must be given after April of the year he'd be starting kindergarten, so you have a little while to think about it. We just did this for our DS and he'll be starting kindergarten this month at age 4.4. The other advantage to testing is that it helps make the case for differentiated services early on, since most gifted programs don't start until third grade in this state.

NC = North Carolina, right? Different state.

Math is so much more than counting and adding. I'm not a fan of the approach of "the kid already does kindergarten/1st grade stuff so we should move onto 2nd grade stuff."

Toys and games are perfect. Checkers, Sorry, dominos, tangrams, jigsaw puzzles, plus cooking together, and good 'ol Legos, blocks, modular train tracks, and similar toys.

The advantage of these is that they teach thinking skills that elementary schools don't have time to teach.

Whoops! Must have been too early in the morning for my eyes to be working right.

ITA. May I add: Some may put a note in the child's file to vaccinate future teachers against parental advocacy.

Or not. The negativity toward gifted kiddos is prevalent and widespread. If parents who have been through it do not alert others, each family may feel they are going through it alone, rather than possibly bringing about change by raising awareness.

The methods of undermining utilized by some teachers/schools/districts may resemble "relational aggression" (girl bullying) or Zersetzung. This may include elements of destroying self-confidence, social isolation, damaging reputation, organizing failures in their work (in this context, possibly explained as a means of introducing "challenge"), inspiring self-loathing.

While parents help their children move forward in other learning environments, the effects of the undermining are chilling, make a lasting impression, and may cause lingering mistrust and fear.

For parents who may be new to this: There are many resources for advocacy information and meeting prep. There are success stories. If the parents follow best practices and the efforts are not successful in their learning environment, the consolation is that the evidence-based, documented, unemotional approach leaves little negative to be said about the parents, to be placed in a student's file.

My DS just turned 4. Here's a list of activities he's found stimulating over the last year: learning about calendars; playing with analog and digital clocks, both toy and real; marbleworks; leapfrog discovery sets, including world and US maps, solar system, and anatomy; learning about coins and making change, and playing with a toy cash register; playing with measuring devices, such as rulers, thermometers, measuring cups, pressure gauges (tire and water), and scales; being read to and learning to read; playing with the hundreds of settings on our keyboard piano; magnatiles; growing a vegetable garden; and cooking with me (especially making bread dough in clear plastic storage containers, because he can watch the volume of dough rise.)

Also, about 6 months ago, we got a subscription to Dreambox. He chooses to play for an average of 20-30 minutes a day. Watching him work through a math curriculum has taught me that there are A LOT of steps between grasping addition and mastering all aspects of addition. Even still, it only took six months for my DS to work through kindergarten, first, and most of second... At some point, I stopped wondering what he would learn in school and settled on homeschooling. It's daunting, but I fear I just wouldn't hack it at advocacy.

Thank you so much!!

Helianthus, it is ok, I always see the words wrong too, as i always see the beginning and ending letters of a word only :P

I don't think early entrance of K is suitable for my son, as i only speak to him in Cantonese at home. Although he know some english single words and can read some words, I believe it is still a long way to go for him to learn reading. In addition, he look a bit "small" in his age already, he is only 15-25% in height and weight. He once told me he doesn't like himself because he is not as tall as daddy. So I worry that putting him into a older group may have negative impact on his self-esteem. But if he can be put in a advance class in maths, that may prefect. (Most likely it is not possible :P)

geofizz, Portia and Space_Cadet, thanks for the great idea of toys and games! Same as you, i always think that maths is not only calculations, the thinking process is more important. My son like playing cash machine and pretend shopping with me, he also like using ruler to measure the sizes of stuffs. Recently he likes to draw a digital clock, and write the temperature, keep drawing and changing them (sometimes i can't understand why it is fun, but he can keep drawing for more than an hour! "it is 10:05, and 1 degree! now it is 10:06 and 2 degree..")

Portia and Indigo, wow, you frighten me!!! Seems that it is better not to let the school know about it and better let my son to have day dreaming in the class, at least he can keep stimulating himself and not being bully. Actually i enjoyed day dreaming in class too :P
When someone see my son can write numbers, and know odd and even numbers, some of his classmate's parent already ask what i do with him at home. Most likely they thought that i am a "tiger mom" <- too bad :_(

Most likely I will homeschool him in maths, I am thinking to subscribe Dreambox too when he turns 4 or 5.

Thanks all of you ^-^

Try using his love of math to develop other areas such as dot to dots for writing practise and mazes too. We gave dd an abacus to play with and that led to a lot of fun for her. Also I read that kids do better in advanced math later if they can Learn calculations in math stories instead of just numbers ( if a farmer has 3 core etc) apparantly it helps develop the visualisation required for higher math rather than rote learning. Good luck with your boy!

Why not send him to a preschool so he'll pick up English? We know families that spoke something other than English in the home and let the "outside world" take care of the English skills.

I recall one kid in my eldest kid's daycare that spoke Japanese with his parents. (The father was Japanese, mother was American but was fluent.) The first two years of his life he heard very little English. They sent him to a daycare at two, and within six months, his English vocabulary was larger than most of the kids who spoke English only.

He'll need to learn English if you plan to continue living in the US. I've seen HG+ kids like your son learn to speak up to four languages at once - so long as each language has a place or person with which the kid speaks the language. And preschool would give him the opportunity to interact with some other kids. It could be just three or four hours at a time, doesn't need to be full day.

Good luck with the math. It is tough because one teacher can't really customize math for each student in a class of 25. However, I have not seen the other kids counting dots while only one kid understands much more math. Maybe it is the area, but most kids are way beyond counting dots in K (in the schools near here). Opportunities for math are much greater as you get to middle and high school. It is tough to wait but it does get better. My eldest knows multiple kids who qualified for USAMO, including one who qualified before high school. Yes, I'm sure school was boring for these kids, but they are now in great colleges where there are others like them. If you have colleges near you (or good high schools), maybe in a few years you could get a high school or college student to tutor him in math. I've seen others on this board do that.

Thanks Mahagogo, same as ur girl, my son loves dot to dot and maze very much. He always draws a maze and ask me to finish it, but he is frustrated when i finish it in a different route from what he think... and he draws dot to dot, patterning questions and ask me to finish too.... :P
I am trying to teach him to use maths to solve real life preoblem too, but i find that before he learn additions, he can answer real life maths very well (e.g. when he said he want 5 crackers, and i said u already have 3, how many should I give u, he can answer 2 immediately, and he is only 2.5 yrs at that time) but now, after he learnt additions, he can't answer real life problem as quick as before... :P

Thanks NotsoGifted, yup, i will put him to preschool in the coming fall (actually in two weeks :P), just want to find some resource on what I can do and what I will face in the future.

My maths background is good, so i think i can teach him till at least high school level, but the problem is i am not good at teaching and not familiar with the school system here in U.S.

Now I am going to homeschool his maths, he keep pushing me and i feel bad to said "can u wait until u are older to learn it?" though i did sometimes say that....

I have tried Dreambox today, wow, it is a well design maths game i compare to what i have tried before, at least i like to play with it. However, my son doesn't enjoy it. The beginning is so boring that it keep asking to place the dots on a bar, and it repeat so many times. (Although i think the concept is good for learning bar chat, counting and simple additions). Finally I have finished those task for him, and he enjoy playing with the simple additions games. It seems that it doesn't let u to choose what area to learn and play with...

What sort of curriculum will the preschool provide? DD8 went to a Montessori preschool for about 2 years and I felt like the Montessori math curriculum really provided her an excellent foundation for later mathematics. Otherwise, we didn't really "do" anything intentional for math, but we did follow her lead and discuss math as it came up related to other things.

For example, when she wanted a watch when she was about 3 1/2, I told her she could have one only after she learned to tell time on an analog clock--so then for a few weeks we studied clocks and time until she had it mastered (including counting by 5, the concept of "quarters", and so on) and had her very own watch. (Ironically, her interest in learning to tell time was longer-lasting than her interest in actually wearing the watch once she got it.)

She also liked games like dot-to-dot puzzles (which are also fun when done backwards), or pattern-matching games of various kinds, or sometimes workbooks because she liked them. We also did not do much computer math with her until she hit elementary.

Oh, and coins and money, too. That is an easy one to do, as long as you make sure to pay for things with cash sometimes, not just use a debit card.

My son also had a facility for math that really showed up around 3-4 years old. We worked with objects, like poker chips. Once it was clear that he was having no trouble counting them out, I began grouping them up to teach skip counting and basic multiplication.

DS (now seven) abstracted quickly from objects to equations, so I challenged him by doing addends (e.g. 5+ ?= 9).

We worked on strategies for mentally adding/subtracting larger numbers. We worked on number writing and recognition.

A lot of math can be learned from basic games- around 5 1/2 we began playing Yahtzee. I had him keep his own score, talked in basic terms about probability. I used to toss some coins on the table and have DS count up the money. I would provide strategies for counting quickly and accurately. Like others, we learned about time (starting with digital, then moving to the regular clock), days of the week, how to read a calendar, etc.

There are some fun math games on the iPad. At first I was skeptical about electronics playing much of a role, but once DS had down the basic concepts, the iPAD was a great tool for practice. Currently, DS likes Math Ninja, Mayan Multiplication, Thinkfun solitaire chess, and Pizza Math.

We read some excellent books-- my favorite series is Sir Cumference. I still have them on our shelf.

The most important "thing" (I think) when it comes to math, is to ensure that your child has a solid grounding in how numbers work. For instance, why is 1/2 and 3/6 the same value. Applied problems (I used to make them up on the fly) can help. (e.g. you have 5 kids and 15 jellybeans, how many jellybeans can each kid have if they are split evenly). We used to do problems like this on car rides- DS was dividing well before I taught him the mechanics.

You didn't ask this, but I'll say it anyway- my child had some difficulties because he entered school with math (and to some extent reading) skills that were two three years beyond most of his peers. Math was especially excruciating because he had mastered the K math expectations well before he started K. There are a lot of other threads about this kind of situation, but get ready.

I live in Northern California as well (Sonoma County). I am a former teacher and I have many friends still in the system. They cannot think of a way to get our DS in early and I have read the CA education code several ways over and I can't find a way either.
If your DC is born Sept. through Dec., they can attend Pre-K and then skip K. You can enroll your child the day they turn 5 in to K and if that's halfway through the year and the school feels that they can go ahead to 1st, that's another way. At this time, I feel strongly that our DS would benefit from early admission. He is exceptionally tall, looks and acts like he's 2 years older. He in a mid-to-late 1st grade level already, almost entirely on his own accord, I'm sure we will be facing all of those future fears-grade skipping, pull out to higher grade reading groups, etc. Why not just allow him to start early, reducing some of the issues?
I haven't given up on the idea. I'm still working on it, like if some new hip public charter school would let him early, then he could just go to our public school in the 1st grade after early entry K. Or if a principal might consider early entry if we tested him, that could be an option.
He's already disappointed by preschool, it's heartbreaking. If there is any way I can help start his elementary years on a good foot by early entry, then I'm going try.
I didn't read other comments, but if you are wondering if your child is gifted, just think of how many families track mathematical milestones? You only do that if your mind is blown and you intuitively know it's not in the normal range of development. I never know what kind of day it will be with our DS. I have a huge box of homeschool type of materials and I just ask him which ones he wants that day, one day it's math, the next reading, etc. Every day is a new adventure. I used to spend time making projects and games for whatever his current thing was, but I couldn't keep up. I'd spend an hour making a sight words game and the next morning he wanted to do math and then the next week he somehow already knew the sight words so what's the point of creating curriculum?

@Portia
Wow, clearly was a bad educational team! So frustrating. Sounds like you experienced exactly what I did when I was a Special Education Teacher! I will be livid if this happens to us, I don't know if I could hold it together and keep a straight face with that going on!!!

Aufilia, Thanks for sharing, dot-to-dot is one of my son's favor too, and he is interested in temperature and weight right now ^^

Cammon, Thanks for sharing too, my son always ask himself some questions like 5+ ?= 9 (actually this is his favorite questions) and answer by himself too, but when i ask him what is 9-5, it takes much longer time for him to get the answer, so strange :P

GGG, first of all, hope the earthquake doesn't affect you too much. Wow, you did a lot for teaching your son, hope he can have grade skipping early, will you consider letting him to go to private school and skip grade there, and then transfer him back to public school? (I don't know is it possible to do that)
Do u know what will the public school do if my DS is advanced in one subject only? Most likely he will not skip grade and I don prefer it for him. Thanks. I live in Fremont.

Thanks all of you, after 2 weeks of attending preschool, his teachers keep telling me how bright he is, "he is so bright,. he already write to 200!" (actually he can write more than that and do more than that, somehow i am scared that his teacher will think that i am a tiger mom if they find that he can do additions...) but he is the only one still have tears on his eyes when i leave him...

Do you know how to play chess? My son learned at age 3 (late 3). It is a wonderful game because you can always find someone to play with you (online) and age and language are not much of a barrier. There are many other fun games you can play with a nonreading child who is math- and spatial-oriented. Try Shut the Box, Uno, Yahtzee, Farkle, Set, Sleeping Queens, Rush Hour/Rush Hour Jr, and Math Dice. Games have gotten wonderful.

Wow, thanks for introducing so many games to me~~ I don't know how to play chess, may be i can learn with my son :P
Thanks ^^

You probably know someone who knows. Ask around! There is a beginner's version called No Stress Chess, also (I have not used this one but people seem to like it).

Be forewarned--my son started beating me at age 4!!