Hello everybody!

I can't express enough how honored I am to start my journey with DYS. I just found out a few days ago that my DD5 is qualified to join and, I am still in a state of shock and extreme research mode.

We got her results via a behavior assessment from the district's psychologist so, her report is not that detailed on her scores however, it's enough to apply with.

So question is� She hit the ceiling on two segments and I was able to get her raw score for those so, is there a way to find out what her true IQ is or will we have to test her when she is a little older on something different? I want to find out if she is HG, EG or PG so, I can have a better understanding of what is going on in that beautiful mind of hers.

WPPSI-IV
Information 17
Similarities 19
Block Design 19
Matrix Reasoning 17
Picture Memory 12
Bug Search 14

GAI 153
FSIQ 142
VCI 146

Raw score:
Block Design 30
Similarities 37

Also unrelated to the topic... Since it was initially a behavioral analysis The KTEA-3 didn't include grade level. Looks like she may have hit the ceiling here as well. Does anyone here know her reading level? What is the max tested for a 5:3 year old?

Reading Composite 157
Letter & Word Recognition 153
Reading Comprehension 154

Thanks in advance for everyone who helps!

Others will probably have more detailed/accurate info, but my suggestion would be to retest using the WISC-IV at age 6, with extended norms that are claimed to test up to 210.

WISC–IV Extended Norms

There is also an interesting discussion here, though it could be organized better: What is Highly Gifted? Exceptionally Gifted? Profoundly Gifted?

Welcome!

With regard to grade level, I should note that these are not criterion-referenced instruments, they're norm-referenced instruments, which means that, while they are very good at determining one's relative standing compared to same-age peers, they are not the correct measure for determining grade levels.

If your question has to do with instructional placement, it is generally more effective to do curriculum-based testing, using whatever reading curriculum your school uses. (Some commercial curricula have placement exams; otherwise, you may consider end-of-course or end-of-unit exams taken from the curriculum.)

With regard to extended norms, they do exist for the WPPSI-IV, but not every examiner has them, as they are in a separate resource. I would agree that you will obtain more stable data from a re-test, probably in an other two or three years, using the WISC-V, which should have extended norms by then. (The WISC-IV is, at this point, an outdated test, and should be used only with great caution.)

Thank you! The 2nd article is what got my gears rolling on her hitting the ceiling and if there was a way to find out if a standard WPPSI-IV could calculate a more accurate IQ. Very intersting stuff!

I'll definitely look into WISC-IV Extended Norms for when she is 6. I didn't know any of the Wechsler test could do that at that age. Thank you so much!

Good to know. I saw a few examples of the KTEA having their grade level listed but, the administrator couldn't tell me. I didn't know if that was standard or if that was just one partucular example. I still don't know at what grade level my DD reads at, the test at her school only goes to 5th grade.

Thanks for the heads up on her future testing. I'll just advocate the best that I can with what I have now.

Hello and welcome

DD5 took the WPPSI-IV in October and hit 3 ceilings, 2 of which were used in the composite scores. My understanding- it's possible the GAI/FSIQ can be artificially depressed b/c of these ceilings however there's no guarantee. It may be they'd get the very next question wrong, in which case the score is legit. Or they could continue answering correctly forever and ever.

Good luck w/ the DYS process! We are just now setting up our BB profiles after applying. The application is much more intimidating than it probably should be if you have the scores so don't stress too much about it.

Thank you so much! I'm more stressed on understanding my DD more and how to help her than I am about the application process since she qualifies on both of the tests so took. My concern is that she has had an extremely rough time with school and, I want her to be happy for once. I want to find the ideal environment. It's breaking my heart. Congrats on your little one!

For many profoundly gifted kids, an ideal school environment does not exist, and the educational journey may be reassessed by the parents each year, to determine the best "fit" (or least-worst fit), based on their child's current needs. The educational journey may include some homeschooling as well. You might want to begin learning about effective advocacy now, to prepare yourself to work with the schools to get your child's needs met throughout the years.

This is not to discourage you, but to manage your expectations realistically. You are in good company here... lots of information (go-to resources and many years of experience) generously shared.

It is great that you have received scores and reports which you believe are sufficient to apply to DYS... however, as you are in "extreme research mode", I hope you will appreciate this bit of research - While encouraged to apply, it may seem a tad bit presumptuous to declare that your child is qualified to join the DYS program, until Davidson has received the application, had the opportunity to review it, and notified you that your child has qualified.

Has qualifying scores maybe?

As a new member I'm curious - has anyone ever reported meeting the test criteria and not being accepted?

Not that I recall. There have been a few people accepted lately with slightly under the stated scores though so there must be some judgement component. I am not in the US so I have no petsonal experience.

Yes. These parental reports may tend to pop up in other places than this forum. In some minds, these instances may raise questions as to the scores/reports... parents may have thought they had qualifying scores... or may have been trying to game the system. Some families re-apply at a later date using scores from other tests.

On the flip side of this, I'm aware of some detractors who've tried (in vain) to sabotage the applications of certain eligible students by sending unauthorized "nominations" which were negative... I believe this is no longer an issue with the electronic application system, in which a parent specifies the e-mail address of the agreed-upon nominator.

Yes. In a few cases, this may be possible. The DYS Qualifications page currently states both that an application may include "Extenuating circumstances, as determined by the applicant and family" and that "Information included here will not add substantially to the review committee’s decision, nor override test scores that fall significantly below the Minimum Score Guidelines listed above."

I replied before and I guess it didn't go through…

DD's scores do qualify her on both of the test taken according to the DYS qualifications page (the old standard and new). Her report was by the district psychologist for an IEP. The report is over 20 pages, has signatures, lincense number, school district info etc... It's legit and the testing sections do outline quite a bit on her environment, how the responded, how she felt etc..

We are qualified to apply and using DYS (public or memeber) resources will be beneficial.

I started this topic to get insight on how to help her. By knowing if she is HG, EG or PG, I will have a better understanding on next steps with her education. If I knew her reading level I can get apporiate books that challenge her yet stays within her maturity level.

For new members on this forum, I believe the first 5 posts are held for moderation / approval to ensure that they are from a person rather than auto-generated spam.

Not trying to place you on the defensive or get you to defend your earlier statements, by providing that link upthread to the DYS description of how things work.

Yes, eligible to apply... yes Davidson resources are beneficial... at both the public and member levels.

Part of that may be learning how things work.

HG, EG, PG are just labels. An IQ score or label does not determine curriculum placement and pacing; It is one of many factors to consider. Every child is unique... with different strengths, weaknesses, motivation, social/emotional inclinations, maturity level, sensitivities, etc. Some gifted children also have learning disabilities; This is termed twice exceptional (2e). Because your child has an IEP, it is likely that her early educational years may emphasize remediation/accommodation for an identified/diagnosed disability.

Looking by "grade level" is not necessarily helpful. This old post points to some resources for finding books for advanced kids. The crowd-sourced parent lists may be especially helpful. In addition to the list for ages 6-8 mentioned in the old post, there are lists for other age bands, including ages 3-5. These lists are found in the Recommended Resources forum. A child's interests are a strong guiding factor for book selection.

Keep in mind that test scores provide a single number, from a single moment in time, about a single construct of intelligence. The number is not your child, it's just a big warning to check your assumptions about child development at the door.

A more specific number won't tell you whether the child will passionately pursue reading, or math, or music, or history, or sculpture..... it doesn't tell you what they will love or be good at. It doesn't tell you what kind of school or curriculum will be a good fit. What it does tell you is to pay close attention to where your child leads, and to support and feed whatever they pursue. Find books that engage and challenge her, at a mix of levels, read complex stuff with with her, and make sure there's always lots of options around for her to pick up to read on her own, even ones you don't think she'd like or seem too easy or too hard (FYI, there's tons of book recommendation threads on the forum). I think many of us inadvertently withheld material from our kids - whether books or math or toys or activities - just because it never occurred to us they could really be ready, could really want that so fast, so soon.

What you do know is that you have an outlier, a pretty significant one. The exact number (which isn't actually all that exact) doesn't help you know what that child is going to need. You already know the key thing: your child is going to learn differently from most around her. Possibly very differently. You don't yet know what her different will look like, but she'll show you. You may have to advocate hard at school - but then again, her passions might turn out to be in areas better supported at home. Don't expect that school won't work, but don't be surprised if you have to try plan B. And C. And D. All a bigger number can tell you is to be that much more prepared to do things differently, in whatever ways she shows you she needs. Good luck. It's a whirlwind!

Platapus101
Thank you so much for your kind words and advice. I had always known that she was gifted, it was very obvious to me when she was one so, I started preparing then on how to raise an above average child but, I wasn't completely prepared for this! Of course when she was little I would see her do something extraordinary and, think "My goodness, she's a little Einstein" but, I would quickly dismiss it as being too proud. Now that I have gotten several assessments done, the reality is hitting me HARD.

You're completely right. Now I feel like even though I did my best to be alert to what she is saying to me, I also feel like I should've accepted it sooner. Which is also silly because, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around it now! I just don't want to miss anything vital.

Some articles are saying that you need to do an extended norm IQ test because, the difference between a 135 and a 100 is significant just like a difference between a 180 and a 135. That has some logic to it.

For now I think I am going to chill for a bit on the score. It does look like I have to wait a bit longer anyway if I want to do an extended norm test. Until then we have made some changes to her school and we are seeing some positive results however, I do need to find other options for her future.

Thank you so much, I needed to hear some of that.

First, take a deep breath. Second, your daughter has very good scores but a few words of caution
1. It is not unusual to have really high WPSSI scores for bright children and it is possible they will level out ( it is also possible that they won't). Think of it this way your DD was compared to a random sample of five year olds and had much better language and spatial skills than other five year olds. However, it is harder to be a significantly better at certain skills when 12. My point, there is some leveling out.
2. IQ is only one measure. Executive function is as important (if not more important) in school and life success and you have no scores for that.

Do the same things that you have been doing. Travel, museums, good books and lots and lots of imaginative play. Your daughter will be fine. Enjoy her! It is so easy to focus on a child's giftedness and forget that it is just a small part of them. We have all had that what now moment when getting our children's scores. It will all be fine😊!