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Posted By: Matisse Homeschooling - where do I even start???... - 05/20/16 04:58 AM

I am writing to kindly ask a question:
how can I start on the homeschooling path with a classical education curriculum, given certain personal parameters?
This is my main question - and I am grateful in advance for any kind of clue, advice or starting point suggestions.

To provide a bit of background...

I have a 10 year old son in the Gifted program and an 8 year old daughter who clearly qualified for the program based on her ability and achievement scores, but the school disqualified her with a teacher-filled "motivation" scale which was 100% intentionally misjudged - set right below the qualifying point. The mountains of evidence (both external and school-based) we brought in support of her huge motivation abilities did not move the school or the district - but this is a different and largely irrelevant story.

Ever since my oldest started K, I have been dreaming of homeschooling. The wish to home-school has been 100% related to pedagogical and disciplinary substance concerns, and not to ideological or religious reasons. It is also related to the fact that my oldest (4th grader) is "twice-exceptional" - both gifted and ADHD-diagnosed. He typically comes home either with grades in the upper 90's-100 or with 0-s, when he forgets to turn in worksheets or to complete a task due to getting off track. He is extremely easy to distract, impulsive, too busy being the class clown, simply put: a hot mess. The girl is doing very well but is stagnating without any challenge - not even the once-a-week little extra my oldest is getting.

Having been raised in a radically different educational system overseas, I, personally, have been severely disappointed with the "lowest-common-denominator" pedagogy of public schools - even though my children attend a very highly ranked one, in a very good school district. Higher-income housing in the area notwithstanding, I find the pedagogy and curriculum seriously wanting. If I have to summarize it one word, what comes to mind is "fluff".

I dream of a classical education where rigor, solid canons/foundation, mental discipline, good study habits, serious problem-solving skills and elegant disciplinary substance prevail. I have now had the kids in public school long enough to know that what I have in mind will NEVER happen, no matter how I twist it. Their education is loose, flabby and random skill-based; it boils down to multiple choice, glue in, fill-in-a-blank and circle-a-word - here and there.
I am
desperate for more for these kids but knowing I will never afford an elite private school, I can't stop thinking of homeschooling.

The only reason I haven't taken any step in this direction so far is because I must also work. Not work as in "I am a career-woman at heart", but work, as in "I must also provide for our family because my husband's salary alone is simply not enough for our family's long-term needs".
Within my "must-work" parameters, I have been lucky enough to pick the best profession I could have possibly picked. I love what I do, I am good at it, it is difficult, but the autonomy is high and the schedule is also very flexible, including a good amount of work-from-home.

I work as a university professor and this year I hope to obtain tenure with my current institution. Pre-tenure, the loads are beyond rough, including week-ends and many all nighters to maximize publication record; but after that, the pace becomes less frantic.

As I have been approaching the Promise Land, I have begun to seriously consider homeschooling in the morning (4 hours max) and to do my work after 12:00 pm, including scheduling my university courses in the afternoon/evening, twice a week.

Had I had an 8-5 job (make it 7 with traffic, having been there) - the homeschooling would have obviously been out of the question. I realize, however, that even with my flexible job, I may still commit to an insane regimen, becoming both K-12 teacher for an elementary and middle-schooler, and university professor... and cook (because we've tried the frozen dinner route and I had to gibe up after a few months).

I have no idea if there have ever been other homeschooling moms in this type of situation, whether this project is even realistic...how expensive the curricula materials would be, etc.

I would only want to homeschool the kids through middle-school and have them back in public school by 9th grade.

Please let me know where I stand on an insanity scale from 1-10. If my average score is reasonably close to the lower-end, where do you think I should start?

Thank you so much!
Posted By: fjzh Re: Homeschooling - where do I even start???... - 05/20/16 03:11 PM
Random thoughts, in no particular order, with likely-varying degrees of helpfulness smile

1) I worry about your exhaustion of handing a full-time career plus keeping up with classical homeschooling in the mornings. I work very part-time one evening/some weekends and am the primary M-F/9-5 caretaker and it feels like just enough on my plate.

2) What will the kids do after 12:00? Will they be under the care of someone who will take them to homeschool get-togethers so they can maintain friendships and out-of-the-house activities?

3) Half days is totally enough to "school" two kids with a 1:2 ratio. It's amazing how much we cover in an hour over here.

Edit to add...

4) Curriculum is as cheap or as expensive as you make it. Boxed packages probably won't fit for a gifted kid with likely varying levels of abilities in different subjects, so I'd look at individual curriculum for whatever subjects you want to focus on, personally. There are loads of free resources though between inter-library loans and the internet, so don't let cost deter you.

Homeschooling in our house means we focus on the Big Three (reading/writing/'rithmetic), and let the rest be interest-led (lots of ancient history, early American pioneer times, and nature study around here).
If you are located in the United States, be sure to check your State Laws on homeschooling to ensure that you are compliant.
A few of the many great homeschooling resources which may help you begin:

1) The Well-Trained Mind
2) Gifted Homeschoolers Forum (GHF)
3) Homeschool Legal Defense Association (HSLDA)
4) Memoria Press - Classical Christian Education for homeschoolers

Originally Posted by Matisse
Having been raised in a radically different educational system overseas, I, personally, have been severely disappointed with the "lowest-common-denominator" pedagogy of public schools - even though my children attend a very highly ranked one, in a very good school district. Higher-income housing in the area notwithstanding, I find the pedagogy and curriculum seriously wanting. If I have to summarize it one word, what comes to mind is "fluff".
Please know that there are many parents who were raised in the United States under the values of past decades and/or attended private, independent, and/or parochial schools and also find the current trend in US public schooling to be disappointing. You are not alone.
Originally Posted by Matisse
I have no idea if there have ever been other homeschooling moms in this type of situation, whether this project is even realistic...
[Waving hand in the air frantically] Yes! I do this!

(PM'ed you with a ridiculous amount of detail.)
Posted By: aeh Re: Homeschooling - where do I even start???... - 05/20/16 04:51 PM
I do something similar. I work a full-time public school job, with modified hours (about one day a week equivalent from home, spread out over a few days), and also homeschool multiple children. PM for more details.

I described some low-cost options for homeschooling here:

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....w_to_start_homeschooling.html#Post230056
I'm going to post this publicly, because I think there is a perception that homeschooling is unattainable without deep pockets, a huge support network, or an unusual job. Nothing could be further from the truth! Yes, the logistical challenges magnify if you are a single parent, have tight finances, a limited network, or other extenuating circumstances. But it can be done!

I'm homeschooling DS4.5 solo while working full-time. The equation will be different for older children, necessarily, but I'm happy to elaborate beyond what I've posted below if you'd like.

My current situation allows me to tele-work at least half-time, and I carve out opportunities during my lunch or evening time with DS to cover school topics. Weekends are mostly saved for exploring, fun, friends, and sports. On the days where I work off-site, DS is with a caregiver who does effectively the same thing listed below.

For instance, take a typical tele-work work day schedule:

5:30-8:00am - I work while DS sleeps.

8:00-9:00am - Breakfast with DS. We read or discuss some topic of interest (usually science or math these days, but it can be philosophy, theology, geography, etc.)

9:00-9:30am - Personal care/clean up.

9:30am-12:00pm - DS with caregiver playing sports, doing construction, visiting museums, exploring. I work.

12:00-1:30pm - DS and I have lunch. DS reads to me aloud while I prepare lunch. Then we either play a game, have a conversation, read, or just enjoy lunch.

1:30-2:00pm - I read aloud to DS.

2:00-4:00pm - DS naps. I work.

4:00pm - 9:00pm - My work day is done (or I pick up extra work in the evening after DS sleeps). We do whatever we want. Often, we'll spend an hour or two outside playing sports, then come in and cook dinner together. This could be a window where children have after-school activities or play dates.

This schedule is about to evolve for us in September, when DS will begin attending school in the morning to build out his social network. The goal of school for us is purely to meet DS' social and leadership needs. He practically glows around other kids he enjoys and is craving more peer relationships, so branching out is necessary for us at this stage, but a more introverted child might not need that option. Other than our morning being bumped back half an hour and his spending 3 hours off-site, our schedule will largely be business as usual.

You'll be surprised how little time is required to cover curriculum for basic skills. If your child is self-directed, you can generally provide them with the core skills needed and watch their imaginations lead them to some pretty amazing work. Seeing a child learning for the love of learning is a thing of beauty!

Some parents on this board have talked about their children devouring curriculum in gargantuan bites. I've seen it. It's a real thing. Last week, DS decided he wanted a certain junky toy I wouldn't usually purchase, and he successfully negotiated earning it by completing half a year of math curriculum. The half year was completed in less than two days with mastery and all questions finished. He did the same thing with a reading curriculum a few months back, where he did a year of material in a day because he wanted to go out to his favourite restaurant for dinner as a reward. When these kids are motivated...STAND BAAACK!

In some education circles, the comment I'm about to make would go over like a lead balloon but, hey, we're among friends here. I would go so far as to say that a standard year of curriculum in elementary school can be learned by some gifted children in a weekend, or less. Then the remainder of your time is a question of providing safe supervision and supporting flights of fancy. The former becomes easier as children get older.

Posted By: fjzh Re: Homeschooling - where do I even start???... - 05/20/16 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by aquinas
I would go so far as to say that a standard year of curriculum in elementary school can be learned by some gifted children in a weekend, or less.

LOL! I completely agree with this. My 7 year old isn't nearly so quick to absorb, but so much of "school time" just must be filled with other things, I imagine? We can buzz through most stuff (just the basics here, but still) in about an hour a day maybe 3-4 days a week.
Originally Posted by fjzh
Originally Posted by aquinas
I would go so far as to say that a standard year of curriculum in elementary school can be learned by some gifted children in a weekend, or less.

LOL! I completely agree with this. My 7 year old isn't nearly so quick to absorb, but so much of "school time" just must be filled with other things, I imagine? We can buzz through most stuff (just the basics here, but still) in about an hour a day maybe 3-4 days a week.

My mom taught and now helps out at their local public school. She once told me she thought our oldest could easily finish the elementary school curriculum in a year or less. When I think about that too long, I start to feel really badly that we are not homeschooling him or his younger sibling.
Posted By: aeh Re: Homeschooling - where do I even start???... - 05/21/16 02:29 AM
My mother used to say something similar. She still feels like 2 hours of school a day is more than enough to keep pace, even for NT children. And I do have to say that typical public school home tutoring schedules pretty much confirm that--if a student is on home tutoring from the public high school, it is quite common for that student to receive two hours of tutoring time per week (maybe two hours twice a week, if they have a lot to catch up on, say, after a psychiatric hospitalization), and for the state to consider that equivalent to the 5x6.5 hours a week that everyone else is getting.
Plus there's the weekends, especially if your kids stop feeling a strong distinction between school-learning and life-learning.

Today (Saturday) my daughter went to modern dance, practiced piano with a bit of theory thrown in, wrote four pages of a story, let me read her several picture books about WWII, talked me into playing a game of chess with her, listened to a Spanish picture book, and alternated reading pages of a chapter book with me. And honestly, it has felt like a day of "just lying around the house." (I may make her to a bit of math later.)

Sometimes I think the biggest challenge of homeschooling as a working parent is just finding the childcare coverage.
Originally Posted by aeh
My mother used to say something similar. She still feels like 2 hours of school a day is more than enough to keep pace, even for NT children. And I do have to say that typical public school home tutoring schedules pretty much confirm that--if a student is on home tutoring from the public high school, it is quite common for that student to receive two hours of tutoring time per week (maybe two hours twice a week, if they have a lot to catch up on, say, after a psychiatric hospitalization), and for the state to consider that equivalent to the 5x6.5 hours a week that everyone else is getting.

That is really interesting. It makes me wonder what could be changed to make the school days more about learning. As I look at our boys' schedules, I am struck by the short time on each subject daily, which doesn't ever seem enough time to truly get everyone settled in and working and asking questions, etc. I wonder what it would take to have longer periods on alternating days. Seems it would be much more efficient.
DS9 constantly complains about school being a huge waste of time, with all the "blah blah blah" from the teachers all day long. He brings in his Redwall series books and I'm always amazed at home much reading he gets done during the school day. He just sits down w/ his book in the classroom whenever they allow him to, and ignores whatever is going on around him. If they didn't allow his outside books there, I probably would have taken him out by now.
Posted By: aeh Re: Homeschooling - where do I even start???... - 05/22/16 01:40 AM
Originally Posted by blackcat
DS9 constantly complains about school being a huge waste of time, with all the "blah blah blah" from the teachers all day long. He brings in his Redwall series books and I'm always amazed at home much reading he gets done during the school day. He just sits down w/ his book in the classroom whenever they allow him to, and ignores whatever is going on around him. If they didn't allow his outside books there, I probably would have taken him out by now.
I'm there with him. I read all through elementary school. When allowed to pick my own seat, I would put myself next to the classroom library and read through the shelves. Through middle/high school, I and my sibling who attended the same high-performing school each read about one book a day during the school day. We visited the school library at the beginning and end of each day to check out/return new books (and sometimes at lunch, too).
Posted By: aeh Re: Homeschooling - where do I even start???... - 05/22/16 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by ConnectingDots
Originally Posted by aeh
My mother used to say something similar. She still feels like 2 hours of school a day is more than enough to keep pace, even for NT children. And I do have to say that typical public school home tutoring schedules pretty much confirm that--if a student is on home tutoring from the public high school, it is quite common for that student to receive two hours of tutoring time per week (maybe two hours twice a week, if they have a lot to catch up on, say, after a psychiatric hospitalization), and for the state to consider that equivalent to the 5x6.5 hours a week that everyone else is getting.

That is really interesting. It makes me wonder what could be changed to make the school days more about learning. As I look at our boys' schedules, I am struck by the short time on each subject daily, which doesn't ever seem enough time to truly get everyone settled in and working and asking questions, etc. I wonder what it would take to have longer periods on alternating days. Seems it would be much more efficient.
Where I currently work, we have double periods, and I've been in other secondary schools with block schedules, too. Though there is still a lot of inefficiency, I do think it is a better use of instructional time.
I remember saying as a 10 year old that if we didn't waste so much time we could easily finish before lunch. I have always really resented having my time wasted.
What is the best way to go about putting together the curriculum and all materials?
I am interested in the classical curriculum and I do have the Well Trained Mind - but I would also like to examine other books.

Someone mentioned vendors...are there any homeschooling fairs where I can examine various curriculum offers?
IMO it's part and parcel of school mostly not being about actual education. Few people will thank you for seeing this, but it's very important to understand it. Because that is a prerequisite for making your own choices, and you can make better ones than the ones that will be made for you otherwise.
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