While folding laundry today...

My mind was wandering and I suddenly thought, "I wonder if DS will be happier in marriage than his dad and me; or not."

The reason I was thinking this isn't because I'm unhappy in my marriage of nearly 30 years, but because of DS' unique "quirks" and thinking of how those idiosyncrasies will cause difficulties for him in a relationship. I then wondered if he married a gifted woman, if those same qualities would cause him more or less grief.

So, I Googled...

What do you think of this: www.positivedisintegration.com/Perrone-McGovernetal2012.pdf

What is your opinion/observation of relationships in which gifted individuals are with gifted, versus with non-gifted?

No time to read the link at the moment, but fwiw, my observation just among the people I've known throughout my life is quirky people come in all flavors of IQ, high IQ people come in all ranges of quirky through "normal" (whatever that is lol!), and people find happiness in all kinds of different ways. I would suspect that most of th people I've worked with over the years in a similar position to mine have relatively high IQs... and it's basically a mix of couples who stayed together and couples who split up. Overall, I'd say the greater risk factors for unhappiness in marriage were not IQ but were factors outside the marriage relationship that the couple couldn't help (health issues, challenges with children, or other adults zooming in and trying their best to break up the marriage)... and sometimes combined with having grown up in a household where their parents marriage didn't last.

But those are just my hunches based on the limited sampling of people I know

polarbear

Have you read anything about the Harvard Grant Study on men's health?

I tend to think you're correct, pbear.

Whether or not a person is gifted or not really shouldn't be a factor...or should it?

This is where I wonder.

If you have two people who are at polar opposites (grin) in their perception of the world, how can such a relationship survive?

My personal POV: If you have two people who don't see the world in somewhat similar ways, those two people will "butt heads". So, if you have a gifted person and a non-gifted, wouldn't it follow that they will have a higher likelihood of conflict?

I'm bored today apparently, so I've been fantasizing a scenario...

DS (Now married/committed relationship) comes home from a long day at the office and his DW/D? has made a gourmet dinner after her long day...

DS takes a bite and declares it tastes, "Blue-Green" and grimaces.

Oh-Oh.

Unless she understands his viewpoint on food and color, what is she going to think? I mean, regardless of the fact that he obviously doesn't like what she has made?

No. Can you provide?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Harvard+Grant+Study

Wikipedia summary on the study is first and a bunch of articles about it... I just bought the last book published about it and will start reading when I finish the series I am reading at the moment:

http://www.amazon.com/Triumphs-Expe...88&sr=1-1&keywords=triumph+of+experience

Ametrine - research suggests that most people marry within about 10 points. Obviously there are limits if you're way out there PG. But most couples I am friends with, including one I can think of who IS way out there PG AND "quirky" are well matched with their partners.

Why would you marry someone you can't have a conversation with?

This is interesting to me because I know one couple and the guy is a genius - really, really smart... Amazing in his field. He is also a super nice guy and never (at least for my husband and me) makes a person feel stupid or inadequate. Really easy to talk to, etc. His wife? Not bright. I mean, really, not bright. She's very nice but she is also a bit immature emotionally (she comes form a neglectful childhood so that didn't help her cognitive or emotional intelligence). She waits on the husband, though - hand and foot. Very subservient and sees him as a God. They seem happily married and my husband and I are always perplexed ... We're like "what do they talk about?" But maybe husband enjoys not having to be "smart" around her ? Don't know.

Interestingly, the article frequently mentions life satisfaction, alongside marital satisfaction.

Like pbear, I can't say anything definitive about gifted relationships observed, but there are resources which help develop both the gifted individual and an individual's preparation for a lasting relationship.

On the gifted side, there are books like The Gifted Adult, by Mary-Elaine Jacobsen. Duke TIP has an article by the author, titled "If Only I Had Known: Lessons from Gifted Adults" (link).

On the relationship side, there are books like the little vintage mini-book, Saving Your Marriage Before It Starts, which poses seven simple but thought-provoking questions - none of which touch upon IQ.

Hmmm. Not sure. We are an example of gifted+non (me yes, him no). We've worked out all (or most of) the kinks, and the net result is that as long as I meet him at his level, I'm free to occupy whatever head space I wish. Works for us

So, teach him how to cook!

I'm only being partly cheeky because, for DH and I (both gifted), the sources of our conflict are the most mundane aspects of our existence: chores, banking, family visits. Frankly, we share religious, political, and economic views and are close in intelligence, so there's little friction to be had. How Canadian!

To my thinking, giftedness allows better application of logic, perspective taking, and reason to interpersonal conflict. It may be that gifted-gifted (or gifted-NT) marriages face the same conflicts as NT-NT relationships, but the spouse(s) are better equipped to foresee problems or address them systematically as they arise, which could account for the findings of the study you linked.

My initial hypothesis is that the satisfaction in a marriage doesn't come so much from similarity but from the perception that your spouse loves and respects you, and vice-versa. That love probably transcends political, economic, and intellectual differences and explains some of the wild departures we see from assortative pairing.

Frankly, a large part of my husband's initial appeal was his brilliant mind. Talking to my husband is the one true time when I feel "home". I am one of those individuals for whom a close intellectual match is necessary.

We're an example of a pair of HG+ people who have pretty much got that, a volatile Celtic disposition, and a sense of humor in common. NOTHING else. Well; DD, obvviously.

He's a smart jock, and I'm anti-athletic to the point of absurdity.

He's an extravert, I'm an introvert.

That's only the bare beginnings of the major differences between us, honestly. We do NOT think alike-- to the point that it is kind of a joke between the two of us that if one of us is thinking X, it's a GIVEN that the other one is thinking "Y" at the same time. On the other hand, as a team, we are truly formidable as a result-- because we see things so differently that we're like a super-PG person-- assuming that we quit screeching at one another like the Sopranos long enough to communicate, I mean. Eventually we tend to get there.

We can meet one another at the same LEVEL, but we have virtually no shared interests to spend TIME together on-- we both lack the ability to be dogmatic about pretty much anything, though-- so I suppose that is something else in common, though I've attributed that to the physical science background/avocation. I think it's probably innate, however, and we're absolutely ecumenical about it-- it's a worldview for both of us. "Rational Skepticism whether we like it or not," I guess. Luckily this seems to have worked pretty well for us over the past 20+ years. We joke that we're a pair of dragons; the truth is that we're both VERY difficult, strong, well-educated, opinionated people who would completely steamroll most people in a moment, but we deal with one another without any hard feelings whatsoever, and a great deal of love, respect and affection.


Like aquinas, I can overlook a LOT of other things because my DH "gets" my HG+-ness, quirks and all. He doesn't think I'm crazy to proactively explore potential catastrophes and head them off (often in the face of a world that isn't intended for advance planning on that scale).

Good question:

Good answer:

Well yes if having a worshipping servant floats your boat that works too....

Yes. Lol.

I've wondered about this topic because my extended family seems to be mostly made up of gifted-NT marriages, although the NT spouses often have one thing they're really good at, or maybe I'm seeing more of an HG/MG difference? I wish I could have everyone tested, just to satisfy my curiosity. I wonder how common gifted-NT marriages are?

In the study, 66% thought their spouse was gifted (identified as a child or had characteristics) and 34% did not. But I think that the authors' selection of "gifted" participants was skewed to academic high achievers so perhaps there were some NT particpant-gifted spouse and NT-NT combos as well.

In the end, out of 87 people...

Or if the giftedness perception is higher than actual giftedness, then perceived giftedness of the spouse may be a proxy for respect and love of the spouse.

Maybe he knows how but does not want to after a long day's work, perhaps book-ended by long commutes. There is something to be said for the single-earner model. Most of my colleagues in finance (but not me) have wives who are SAHMs. Many women have jobs such as teaching that pay an order of magnitude less than high-level corporate jobs. In such cases, the most important economic contribution the wife can make is to support her husband's career.

My husband and I have opted for a single-earner model and I would consider a suggestion from my husband such as the one you've made highly offensive. A couple certainly could agree on that division of labour, but to assert that it's the best possible solution in all cases involves some rather regressive assumptions.

Are you suggesting that the maximum possible value of the SAH parent is meal preparation and household chores? As an individual with two graduate degrees who is a SAH mother, I would beg to differ. Especially when the financial opportunity cost of my time in the market is *higher* than my husband's in corporate law.

Let's not forget that decisions can be made for non-market reasons, and the expectation that the non-market spouse performs the household work is an assumption that may be both socially and economically irrational.

To connect this to the original topic, perhaps interpersonal sensitivity and less reliance on gender stereotypes in specializing intra-couple labour, is a source of happiness among gifted couples.

Both my DH and I are HG+. Our areas of interest are dramatically different, I'm a literature, history, art buff and he is purely 21st century technology, engineering and finance.

Sometimes I really long for a partner who could discuss literature at my level and really get into it. I don't currently have anyone in my life I can do that with, but we do have some pretty awesome political discussions and we both love music, especially opera, so we do have some common ground. I don't think I could be married to someone who wasn't at minimum my intellectual equal. That's my very personal opinion.

I am a SAHM. When I quit working we were making about the same. Now my DH is making more than twice as much as he was then, I do think partly because he has good support at home. I see it as a team effort. If the powers that be see him as someone who is always "on," then he's going to be a more valuable employee. My economic contribution to our family is to ensure that he can do that. He does not worry about laundry or dishes or meals, but sometimes works from home well into the night. I feel that my "domestic" contributions are extremely important to the economic well-being of our family.

If he had to be on-call for sick children there is no way he would have the career that he does. My former career would not have allowed for that either. If we were both still working, our kids would be suffering because both of our careers were demanding of our time and energy.

I do not feel any shame in being an intellectual, educated woman who stays home to make sure that the gaps in her children's education are filled and that her husband has all the support he needs to have the career he dreams of.

Possibly some of this maps to our GT kids' relationship with school: In that relationship we are seeking flexibility, support, and opportunity for each child to continue their own personal growth and development, within the existing constraints of time, money, and balancing the needs of other students in the class.

Lasting marriages may similarly be predicated on spouses mutually providing flexibility, support, and opportunity for each other to continue growing and developing as a unique individual, throughout the lifespan, while living within each family's unique constraints of time, money, and balancing the needs of other family members, including one's children?

Meanwhile I agree with aquinas that husbands may enjoy cooking. For some, it may be a great way to unwind after work, and seeing what they've created by their own skill may be immensely rewarding. I will even wonder aloud whether a kiddo may be interested to begin learning in his youth to prepare foods which are not "blue-green", so he may properly nurture and nourish himself rather than expecting a future wife to do for him that which he is unable to do for himself?

My marriage is quite happy. I work part-time, which definitely helps our family. This way I take care of things at home, as dh has a stressful career. He is definitely hg+ (very strong in math, engineering, science) I have never been tested (that I know of), but fall in the high ability, maybe mg area. (I was in pull-out in school, always towards the top of my class.)

What I think works though is respect. We respect each other. We do have like opinions about religion/ politics. We are both planners. We are about to have good discussion about a variety of topics. We cannot have intellectual conversations about our specific areas of our jobs, because we are in very different fields. However, we both have people we can discuss that with.

I also know intelligence with a good life balance were why we were drawn to each other. (Everyone else I had dated were already married to their job.)

Years ago I enjoyed a book by Dr. Jeffry Larson called Should We Stay Together. It was a culmination of 40 years of social science research and the author's clinical practice. It's rather an interesting look at the factors that are increase or decrease the likelihood of divorce for those considering marriage.

It does not offer a look at giftedness specifically as a factor. There are however many factors that may be related concepts. For example, pursuing education makes it less likely that a woman might marry before age 20 (a factor which doubles the likelihood of divorce).

As illustrated by the SAHM discussion above, having congruent views on roles within the relationship is another factor which influences marriage success (defined here as not ending in divorce). Similarities of religion and other core beliefs are impacts as well.

The book spends some time debunking the idea that we Americans often cling to that love is the only necessary ingredient to a successful marriage and that it can supercede any challenge. The research and divorce rates in our country do not bear this idea out.

Wish I had time to type more but have to run.

Indeed. My initial reaction was a variation of the conjugation game we played here recently:

My current love is brilliant.
My former love is an idiot.

There's definitely something to that. Research shows that it's usually external stressors that lead to the breakdown of families... typically involving money, health, and children.

And where I'd suggest that gifted couples have the advantage is that they're better able to manage those stressors. They're better at making and managing money. They're better at analyzing health issues and advocating with doctors for more positive outcomes. And they're better at coming together as a team and managing issues with the children.

Where gifted couples are at a disadvantage: emotional intensities.

Absolutely, Dude.

We've weathered acts of God and the usual wear and tear of daily life extraordinarily well relative to most people.

Where we don't always manage things well/healthily is:

a) areas where control is minimal/illusory (and this is where "special needs parenting" comes into play in a BIG way); we're avid planners, strategists, and detail-oriented people to the core. "Accidents" don't tend to happen to us at the same rate that they do to others-- because we see things coming a LONG way off... but oooooo, when truly unavoidable stuff DOES happen, it's a 7+ on the Richter scale in this household.

b) that emotional intensity-- however, with that said, we at least UNDERSTAND emotional intensity and are compassionate with one another over it.

We definitely divide labor by ability. Which is why the male member of our team is the breadwinner-- because the hard reality is that it is STILL the case that we get the most household bang for the buck there. Waste of energy to pretend otherwise, basically. Also true that while neither one of us is well suited to full time parenting, I'm better at it given that my DD is mini-me. Least-worst. I'm better suited to hard-line and tactical advocacy, too, which has been a bonus. DH goes to "Bull in China Shop" much quicker than I do. I've also taken on all of our (complex) medical as a household-- because my background better suits me to that task.

We're sort of ruthless in our ability to determine the solutions for us as a couple. Not unemotional, of course... but pragmatic in spite of it, I'd say. We're extremely self-sufficient because of our variety of strengths. I'm not sure if that is common among GT-GT partnerships, but I suspect that it is. I recall my grandparents were like this, too. They lived through some VERY hard things, but were tough as nails-- together. They, too, fought like a pair of caged tigers, but that was their "method" somehow, much like it can be with my DH and I.

Thanks, Mum. I'll have to read that later on.

He has been on that since he was three. I didn't mean to imply that he would expect his partner to cook and then be ungrateful for what was provided. DH and I split cooking responsibilities even though I'm a SAHM. It's a bonding thing for him and DS, too.

I was more concerned with his perception of some foods (color-coded) and what the reaction to that would be from a non-gifted chef!

Even among gifted chefs, I've not heard adults routinely refer to their perceptions of foods as colors. I've not heard of color-coding as a characteristic of giftedness, with known and agreed-upon interpretations of various colors/flavors. Gifted kids may conflate the words for various senses, but a child may appreciate knowing that describing colors is normally reserved for experiences with our sense of sight, while other words may most effectively help others understand what we are experiencing with our sense of taste, touch, smell, and hearing. Fortunately, kids have time to learn these things. Hopefully if kids call their food blue-green at home, parents feel empowered to coach them in expanded vocabulary (in this case flavors, textures, and food preparation methods) so they may clearly communicate their thoughts to others?

Meanwhile, freeze-framing an individual as a child and projecting this character a decade or more into the future is an interesting sci-fi phenomena.

When wondering what "quirks" might be catered to, accepted, or understood in a marriage, might we also wonder what behavior an individual would expect to be well-received in a university setting, job interview, or other adult leadership position? If a person's "quirks" are not well-received in these roles, do we ascribe it to interacting with persons who are not gifted (enough)?

I'm not sure if synesthesia is what is being described there, nor if it is more common in GT (or any other non-NT population).

But it's a definite thing that occurs reasonably frequently in the population at large, anyway-- it is just that it's unusual enough that most adults have learned to keep quiet about synesthetic observations on life.

That looks like a fascinating book! I want it. It crossed my mind that it would make an excellent graduation gift.

Thanks for the laugh. I just wanna hold on to my baby.

It could be fun to come up with good descriptive words for various blue-green foods. Good dinner conversation.

Sounds like a plan! Meanwhile on another gifted forum, a parent is asking about her DD's propensity to describe everything in numbers... sounds like a match made in heaven when these two marry. You MILs will have fun as interpreters... not to mention what the grandkids may speak like... I picture the formulas at the paint store: 3blue 70yellow 1red.

LoL. I picture the first dance being to Numbers by Kraftwerk!