As some of you know, our son used to attend a public charter school that moved kids up or down according to level. (You can see my previous post about why we left that school.)

DS has been attending the local public (spa)...school for the last four-ish months and I can safely say it's been like summer camp for him. He's learned a lot of recorder music, P.E. games and how not to get his head squished like a nut in a cracker by the "he's never had any problems with social issues" kid.

So, my DH and I are looking for a school for next year.

We went to a local private school and met with the admissions officer and took a tour. Very nice tour. I asked a lot of questions and the officer answered a lot of questions with political aplomb.

Long story short, we went to the open house and were underwhelmed by the teachers he would have and the books, etc. he would be using.

Is this really worth $8,000 a year?

NOT!

I'm really disgusted by what is passed off as a "rigorous" education.

So, my "off-the-cuff" plan is to let DS continue in the "spa school" and get to the real learning during the summer when we are home together.

I'm so tired.

This is Open-House season - so, why not look at all the private school options in your area before you make your decision?

This old post on assessing schools has a roundup of links on school fit, which just may present a few new questions to ask and answers to look for.

Would your child be interested in shadowing anyway? The small school that my kids are at, we initially dismissed at the info session since it did not seem to be what we were looking for at all, but we ended up going with it after meeting with neuropsych on best options for DS and his results which stunned us.

We did have an added issue of DS missing public school cutoff by just one day (and some private schools that were more rigid about that, we ignored). It ended up being nothing like we thought it would be, and the best fit for DS (and DD is there now, and it is working well for her too).

That sounds like a good plan.

Are there online classes that can be taken?

I think it depends. DD (is a DYS) attends a small private school. We love it and so does she! No, the work is not necessarily hard for her but it is about a year ahead of our local public school. It is engaging though, she always has interesting projects to work on, papers to write, and tests to study for. It is engaging and that makes a huge difference in terms of my child's happiness at school. The big thing though is that the level of work required preparation and organization, for everybody! Is she working hard, probably not. Is she working and developing executive function, for sure. Every student that has left the school she attends graduates in the top three at public high school (our public schools average around 2,000 HS students).

As with most things, it depends. I'm assuming you have exhausted options for acceleration or other "Non-spa" like treatment at public school.

Our kids are at a parochial (private, but not exceptionally pricey) school. They've been very good with flexibility re: acceleration and always listen to our concerns/suggestions.

We tried a pricey (11k/year), highly touted private school w/DYS OS. Disaster. No flexibility, they were sure he wasn't gifted, nasty to us (the Tiger Parents... and they were dumb enough to leave their internal emails about it in his file, which they gave us when he left). I'm convinced there is as much variation in schools as there is in people (ah, because people run schools!).

In your case, are there other options?

Agree with the above posters...schools vary a lot. Just wondering though, how do schools educate kids for $8K or $11K/yr? Around here, private schools cost $30K, and public schools spend $20-25K/yr per student. Parochial schools might be more around $10K, but the archdiocese takes on a lot of the cost.

I do think, in general, private schools are more accommodating than public schools. You are paying to have your kid go to the private school, and you (and your money) can leave. Threatening to leave the public school really doesn't have the same impact.

We looked at a local private gifted school for ds11. They told us they didn't think he could handle their math program, which is +1 to the local schools. The program he was in had him in is +2 by 7th grade (Algebra I) . He is beyond that and is currently +4 (taking Algebra I as a 5th grader).Needless to say, the school turned him down with his IQ just below DYS cut off.

It does kind of when your child is one of few pulling in high scores on state high stakes tests and you mention you might have to look at other educational options if there can't be some sort of resolution. They didn't want to lose those precious scores. Doesn't work if your school has tons of high scores, they can handle a high score walking away.

It's a frustrating process. I try to focus on one year at a time. I think, "Is this the best place for my children right now?" Getting worried about the future is too difficult because things change constantly - new principal or different teacher or changes to curriculum. Just breath and try to make the best choice available at this moment.

I chuckled at the price you quoted. Around here the norm is 40k and we go to a bargain school at 19k.

I am sure my son can handle a much faster curriculum, particularly in Math. But so far we found it to be worth it, because it is simply less torturous. Lots of PE, art, and music. The curriculum just seems a bit richer in other subjects too. It makes a difference whether a child likes to go to school or not. This is particularly true in the earlier years where the public school follows the common core religiously. I think by late elementary, the pace may pick up a bit. For now, my son is happy where he is even if he does complain about math being too easy.

Wow. That's ridiculous. What was their rationale/evidence? (By now, I know they don't always have any logical reason...)

We were told they don't deal with kids like him. (We found out about 8 months ago he is on the ASD spectrum (formerly Aspergers). We also know (one of the teachers at our public school has a friend who teaches at the private school) they do have 2E kids at the school. They had a new admissions director last year when we were looking. She only lasted the year. We received an invitation to come for a visit about 2 months ago. Needless to say, he aren't going forward with that process again. DS is in a happy place right now. I think the only benefit for us seeking a gifted school at this point, would be the enhanced science. DS STILL talks about the 2 days of science class he experienced during his visit.

Well, around here, that seems to be the general range. Meaning $8K to $18K.

The $18K is the standard-issue "elitish private school with some very wealthy kids". My wife distinctly disliked her experience there, so we are not sending our kids there.

I'm honestly not sure *why* it is so inexpensive here, now that I think about it. It's not like we suffer a lack of extremely wealthy people.

JohLaw, Now I am curious about where you live. Lots of wealth but cheap private schools.

Low tuition could be due to competition. I live in the Bay Area, which certainly has a lot of wealthy people and high overall costs. Oddly, private school fees are one of the few things here that aren't insanely high (e.g., compared to a million dollars for a 1200SF house on 6,000 feet of land).

There are loads of K-8 private schools around here --- as in, pages and pages of listings in the small-font full-page tables that Bay Area Parent publishes. I imagine that sheer numbers keep the fees low. Many or most (?) of the Catholic schools charge less than $10K annually (a lot less if you're a parishioner). Many of the secular ones are in the $10-15K range. The high schools are pricier, but there are fewer of them. Even so, that means low to mid 20s for most of them, with the odd small one below $20K. We don't have many of the 35-40K+ schools here. That price point seems to be the rule back east (?).

I sent you some local real estate listings for you to review.

Here in SF proper, private schools (independent, not parochial), do indeed run around $30K/year. (Parochials are less expensive.)

That's for K-8; HS costs even more. (Random example: Urban, which runs $42K/yr for soph-sr. http://www.urbanschool.org/page.cfm?p=170)

I almost choked on my lunch! Here the private gifted are about 18k.

Interesting. I found a lot of secular schools well under those price points? The German and French schools are around $22K for middle school and $29K for high school, for example. Stratford was 22K for K-8 (maybe less at the lower grade levels).

SF schools are definitely more than the schools down south (geography presumably playing a role), but most of the ones I found weren't at the East Coast price points.

I also learned that public schools in San Francisco still place students in schools that may not be close to their homes. I feel for anyone trying to navigate schools up there.

I'm new to this board. I need help determining if my children are truly gifted before I can continue. Who can help?

Hi Jbell281, you'll get more an possibly better feedback if you start a new thread for your topic. "Gifted" is an arbitrary category on the continuum of human ability and capacity, and the definition of "gifted" varies.

I think the place to start is questioning "why do I want to know?" and "what would my children get out of pursuing "gifted" identification?" When you identify a specific purpose, then steps for identification become more clear.

Can you please tell me where to start a new thread? I'm looking at this from my iPhone and I do not see a place to start new thread

Thanks to everyone for their ideas and links.

We decided to put the private school on the back-burner, possibly for three years, or until high school. The high school courses offered are really what we were drooling over, anyway. Meanwhile, we are saving what we would have spent per month for the school so as to more easily afford it in three years if that is the way we go. If not, there's a public school option that looks to have equally high-quality level choices for high school.

But there's a catch.

It's become increasingly obvious to us that we need to move about 45 minutes out of this district to where both that private and public school are located. What is not so obvious is when. We really love where we live and moving would be emotionally difficult; for my husband and son especially. And the better school is in a high-cost real estate location. Our lifestyle in the country would be no longer, unless we see a significant rise in income. (Which would likely entail DH traveling from home a lot.)

So the trade-off becomes one of losing our chosen lifestyle for a better school fit. But in three years, who knows? Things change and that school district may loose it's luster. I highly doubt the district we are currently in will rise in ranking much.

For now, our tentative plan is to put DS in the middle school (6-8) next year for his sixth year and ask for TAG identification and any acceleration we can get. Then wait and see what develops. Admittedly, I and DH have not spoken with the principal of the middle school yet. Once achievement testing scores are available, that is something we need to do. But if things don't go well, we could end up pulling DS during the school year, which we don't want to do again. *sigh*

Meanwhile, this summer will be spent taking a speed reading course, getting his first rocketry certification, more swimming lessons, music lessons and just messing around.

I can't help feeling like we're kicking the can down the road, though. And are we making a selfish decision by not being proactive for the upcoming year? DS is change-adverse and so his vote goes to staying put. But knowing he can't see the whole picture academically, his vote doesn't have as much weight, obviously.

I think we have mentally exhausted out and that's not good.

I don't think you should feel guilty for wanting to stay in a place where you're all happy and where you have a good standard of living. Happiness and freedom from stress are very important. I think you're right to take a break, too. Good decision-making doesn't benefit from stress/mental exhaustion.

My advice would be to check out those two schools before you consider moving. Is that great public high school great because of the teachers or because of the parents? Is it great because of test scores? What's the homework load like?

Around here, a lot of "great" schools get their reputations because Mom and Dad pay a small fortune for math and other tutoring --- so a lot of the instruction is taking place outside the school hours. All that tutoring drives test scores up.

And all of our top-ranked high schools pile on homework. Is this what your son wants?

IMO, once kids get to high school, their opinions should count for a lot more than previously. At that point, they're old enough to understand more what they want and don't want.

An IQ score is not an obligation to provide more than you are able to give.

((((hugs))))

A few questions:
1) What is the ranking based on?
2) Ranking does not equal school "fit".

I have the same thoughts as mentioned above, be careful to confirm what "rankings" really mean, (especially since you're mentally exhausted). Hugs, we are mentally exhausted too. I have found that all glitters is not gold.

He wouldn't want homework that was more of the same. The high school is a college prep school and may do that. But what is the alternative? College is a lot of homework, and not all of it will be novel. As for the ranking, it's based on the usual...test scores, classes offered, percentage of college-bound. I'm sure you're correct about the test scores being unreliable due to tutoring. But this particular school (the public) boasts around 30% of their enrolled are TAG. I'm not sure what the criteria for that is over there, but the overall educational level of the pop. probably warrants a large chunk of that percentage...high ability or gifted. The private school most likely has it's share of high ability/gifted, though the stats aren't available. They only cite the colleges the grads are planning to attend.

I'm originally from your area and know what you're talking about concerning the tutoring and the plethora of private school choices. I've wondered if we should move back, but as you've pointed out the housing we would be able to afford would garner us a two bed, two bath ten year old condo. A shock in lifestyle for DS who has never known anything other than ten acres.

There's a lot to be said for ten acres.

I grew up in a rural area. Our school grounds were big enough to accommodate a 7 km cross-country ski course loop. We had two large playgrounds, fields, hiking trails, ski hills, more fields, etc. All the schools in that part of the country were like that, outside of capital cities.

Plus, the local "park" in town was on a similar scale, except that it had a pond in addition hiking trails, and the parking lot got turned into an ice rink in the winter. I spent my youth climbing trees, swimming in the local rivers or lakes, and building snow forts. Later, I was on 3 school athletic teams per year. All of these experiences helped me become a responsible, healthy adult.

I sometimes think that we get too focused on academics on this forum. I got just as much out the non-academic aspects of my youth as I did from math or reading acceleration. I wouldn't trade the time I spent outside or goofing around inventing number systems for more schoolwork --- and while I realize that my experience wouldn't be for everyone, I'd say that if your son is happy where he is, that's huge.

Kids have to find out who they are and who they want to be on their own, and they need space for that. We can (and should) guide them, but ultimately, drive has to be internal and they have to create it themselves. I fear that modern society is putting way too much emphasis a narrow set of skills over the things that help create that drive.

YMMV.

Val,

I am reminded of "Mr. Velcro".
So much inspiration can come from seemingly humble sources.

My husband and I also intentionally picked a rural lifestyle. There's so much value in "green space" and time in nature!

I would be suspicious of a school bragging 30% TAG enrollment. How are they attracting the concentration of gifted students? Do people really relocate for this school? Do all the TAG students leave the other public schools to get to that one? Or, perhaps, they have an overly generous definition of "gifted" and their program is for *good* students rather than *gifted* students?

Right on!