My 2E DD9, 4th grade, is in out of district placement at a spec Ed school because of severe LD issues. Last year her class consisted of 3 girls and 4 boys ranging from 2nd to 6th grade with 2 spec Ed teachers. It was the first time there were so many girls in the elementary area of the school. They became a very close knit group and there were a lot of comments about the positive affect having the girls seemed to have on the boys' behavior, several of whom are very ADHD.

This year the class started as 5 boys, 2 girls ranging from 1st-6th grade with the same 2 teachers and 3 of the same boys as last year and 2 new 1st grade boys. This week the other girl transferred back to her home school district leaving DD as the only girl. The boys' behavior has been escalating as they seem to be feeding off each others behavior. They are also older, 9-11 years old instead of 8-10 like last year, if that makes a difference. Also at least one 1st grader follows the lead of the older boys.

DD is feeling pretty overwhelmed. Just a couple of days before the other girl left the boys went off on DD because she didn't understand the rules of the basketball game they were playing during recess. Ever since then she has been very uncomfortable and even asked me to change the plans for her birthday party because she doesn't feel comfortable having these boys there. Prior to the recess incident she had insisted that any party had to include EVERYONE from school and rejected any location that couldn't accommodate her whole class and friends from school as well as their siblings. She spends much of her day outside the classroom (OT, SLP, enrichment, etc) so I think lunch and recess are going to be the hardest part.

Any BTDT advice from other parents whose girls have found themselves in a class with all boys? Or from parents of boys about how she may better cope with their behaviors? DD is very girly but also likes insects and frogs and has always had male friends. She is dyspraxic, though, so hanging with a group of sports enthusiasts is really tough.

Pemberly I really want to have something hopeful and positive to say, and I don't really, so I have held back waiting for someone wiser than I to find it.... I see you've had no takers.

I have three daughters and this would be a huge concern to me. I'm on my ipad and can't type easily, but I am really not sure how I'd handle the fact that she's now effectively in an all boys school!

My eldest was one of 5 girls in a class of 20ish and this caused her enough social problems (being a bright and odd child) that we ended up having to move her... Middle daughter is currently the only girl in her grade in a split class (all girls are in the next grade and she;s skipped so all the girls are fully 2 years older than her). Also there are 8 girls out of 28. Again this is causing issues... Such that she doing a trial day at a girls school next week! I really can't imagine the scenario you are in!

I really like the idea of co-ed education, particularly in primary school, but the unbalanced classes we've been struggling with have been enough to drive us to looking at all girls schools, let alone being the only girl!

It's great that the primary problems are at lunch and recess, that it's not impacting her learning. But none the less this seems really unfortunate for social development. I realise that changing schools is difficult to impossible, but wow. I don't even know what to suggest. Joining an all girls after school activity in order to foster contact and friendships is hardly going balance this kind of learning environment and playground imbalance is it?

I can easily imagine my girls may grow up to choose very male dominated careers, the older two perhaps more than the youngest, but that is a different situation to being in what amounts to an all boys school as a yr4.

I've had the opposite problem--I had one son who was one of three boys in first grade and then my other son was one of two boys in sixth grade. You would have thought I would have learned after the first one. I can't imagine how difficult it would have been to have been the only boy (or girl, in your case).

It would appear to. Behavior issues among kids are at their absolute worst for grades 6-8, says every teacher I've ever had, and my DD9 is confirming this with her tales of the 6th graders in her mixed-grade GT classes.

So basically, the alpha males in your DD's classroom are not only in the worst age group, they're also gifted (so, intensity), and ADHD? Yikes.

I don't have any BTDT experience, as my DD's school experience is a fairly even gender mix, but in your place, here's how I would address it:

- I would encourage my DD to seek common interests with the boys, and engage them in those.

- I would discuss with my DD how children of different genders address conflict. Girls are apt to be quiet and indirect, where boys are loud and direct. At its worst, it leads to mean-girl behavior on one side (shunning, back-handed compliments, "accidents," etc) and obvious intimidation and/or abuse on the other (verbal and/or physical). Neither approach is really better or worse than the other, they're just different (although it's worth noting here that I've known a number of females who shun female company because they prefer the directness of males).

- Next, I would ask her to quietly observe the boys when they're interacting with each other. Maybe explain it like she's Jane Goodall observing chimp behavior, if that helps. The basketball game would make an ideal natural habitat for observation. Notice how they talk to each other. They goad. They tease. They taunt. They yell. They insult. Sometimes it leads to a confrontation, but more often than not, the harsh words don't match with the observed reactions. Sometimes the target is laughing. Other times, it has no visible effect. Sometimes two boys will seem to be on the verge of fighting, and ten minutes later, it's like the event never happened.

The conclusion to be drawn from these observations is this: the boys did not expect your DD to be so hurt by their words, because they do this with each other all the time, and they don't react the same way. They honestly do not understand your DD's reaction, because it does not match their frame of reference. It's alien to them.

This might help your DD understand where they're coming from, and take some of it less personally.

- But she's still going to be upset from time to time, and it's important that the boys gain some understanding of your DD, too. So...

... ummm, I'm not encouraging emotional blackmail here or anything, but... uhhh... it IS well established that most boys tend to pay significant attention to it when a girl is... crying. So, maybe if she's really upset, she doesn't go find a quiet corner and hide her feelings?

- An email to the teacher explaining your DD's plight might be in order, as well. It might be quite effective if your DD's teacher could give a quick lecture on gentlemanly behavior. Also, anytime your DD is made upset by the boys, she should be reporting it to the teacher.

I like Dude's advice. Definitely worth trying to see if your daughter can reframe her perspective of the classroom.

Unfortunately, my dd8, has been in similarly unbalanced classrooms since 1st grade. In a class of 18, she was one of only 3 girls in first and second grade. Now in 3rd, there are 7 girls and 20 boys, so better, but still a boys dynamic.

For some reason, my dd often gets grouped with all-boy groups. Her reading group left her in tears because the boys never listened, never let her talk, were bossy and took control. She doesn't want to talk over them, so she just gave up. When she finally told me about it, I emailed the teacher, but the book was finished by then. The teacher promised she would make sure the girls have a friend in groups from now on.

But the teacher also tries to put rowdy boys next to my dd to calm them down. This, also, makes my dd frustrated and upset. After a discussion with the teacher, my dd is now next to a quiet boy, so that's an improvement.

I think I would try Dude's suggestions, but honestly, my daughter doesn't like playing with boys and even though she's madly in love with her brothers, she doesn't like boys her own age. She thinks they're literally crazy. So I'm quite sure I would have to remove her from an all-boy classroom.

PS-- I'm not boy-bashing! I have two wonderful boys, but I know boy energy is often different than girl energy. I'm surprised my tom boyish girl doesn't gravitate toward boys, but she doesn't.

DD has often been in overwhelmingly male educational settings-- mostly this was due to her interests in STEM areas which are male-dominated even at younger ages, but now she's seeing it again in college.



This is a GREAT technique to foster in any child who isn't NT, imo.

DD has learned to have a different "persona" for social interactions (and professional ones) when she is in those male groups.

I consider this an asset-- it's forcing her to develop a very broad set of emotional and social skills and to hone a communication skill set for the extremes that she'll almost certainly be faced with in her life.

Being able to communicate with either Spock or with Emma Woodhouse is a pretty significant thing. Soft skills, sure-- but pretty important ones.

I guess in this situation, my temptation would be to let school be whatever it is going to be, and if my DD still seemed to be in need of "girly" time-- sign up for an EC that provides it. Like ballet. Or art.

I spend a lot of time coaching young women to function in nearly all male environments.

I really like everything from Dude except the bit on having her change her own emotional response to situations. It's not a wise path to teach girls that their emotional instincts are wrong. I like the approach of teaching her to understand the boy's behavior and perspective, though. I like it a lot. This is similar in approach to what I coach my students to do.

The thing I would add to the approach would be to simply validate what she's feeling. It sounds like she's also feeling a need to remain loyal to a large number of friends and classmates, even as their educational setting continues to be in flux.

All that being said, this is a special education school. What does the school say? What are they doing to support your DD socially and emotionally? Surely these extremes in student population will be a constant part of the school's fabric, particularly considering the small numbers.

In parallel to all this, it is really useful to provide an all-female environment for girls in situations like this. Girl Scouts can be hit or miss, but a lot of the focus in older grades begins to be one of leadership. Learning to lead (=express herself effectively) in that safe atmosphere most certainly transfers to situations like these.

A clarification is in order, because this is a misunderstanding of my message. I did not intend to communicate any such idea, and it runs contrary to my later statements where I acknowledge that the girl will still likely be upset by the boys' behavior, and that educating the boys is also necessary.

The idea is simply to understand that the hurt they are causing her may not be intentional, and that understanding may help her cope with it better. Her emotions are still valid, but maybe understanding reduces the intensity of that emotional response, or helps her calm herself after her initial response.

Any parent who has heard, "I HATE YOU!" can relate... we may understand that this is a child, and there are many reasons why the kid might say it which have nothing to do with us, but it still stings to hear.

Thanks for the clarification, Dude! It was this statement:

"but... uhhh... it IS well established that most boys tend to pay significant attention to it when a girl is... crying. So, maybe if she's really upset, she doesn't go find a quiet corner and hide her feelings?"

that I seemed to have misunderstood. Yes, educate the boys. Please! They are often overlooked as needing skills in this realm. I wouldn't put the task of educating the boys on this child's plate, though, nor would I have her do it through a non-genuine response. That's all.

geofizz: Oh, no, it's definitely not on her to teach that, and that particular statement is one that could use some elucidation.

Basically, what I'm trying to say there is this: Hiding her feelings would make it difficult for the boys to recognize that they've done anything wrong.

This of it this way... when puppies play with each other, they get as rough as they like, until one yips. Then they pause a bit. The play may begin again moments later, but with less intensity. In this way, they're learning from each other how to play without causing hurt. Owners of new puppies do the same thing, and the training process often involves owners exaggerating their pain response to teach them not to bite.

Children (both genders) do this too, when they engage in rough play. Someone says "ow!", and the game stops, even if only briefly, and there's a conversation about what hurts, and how it happened. Basically what I'm looking for here are ways a girl can say "ow!" outside of the context of rough play.

And apart from that, I would want to be giving my DD something that she can do to help the situation, because adults aren't always going to be observing, and even in directly observing, can't always be counted on to do the right thing.

The crying example is extreme, and will not always be the best way to communicate this, but when a boy sees a girl crying over what he sees as normal behavior, it should get his attention. That's as alien to him as his rude behavior leading up to it was to her.

Any other methods of communicating her "ow!" would be helpful, but the important thing is that the communication happens, and that it happens in the moment, so the boys can immediately connect their actions with her reactions. Without that vital feedback loop, it would be extremely difficult to change their behavior.

Point taken. The example given by Pemberley was that she'd been upset by something surrounding not understanding the rules of basketball. Not really knowing what happened, here, I'd suggest instead coaching her to respond clearly with what she needs, which could ranges from
"Explain the rules, and we can play."
to
"Don't treat me like that."

Thanks everyone - the Jane Goodall idea is brilliant. And Dude your explanation of the dynamics was as spot on as if you had been there. The boys wanted to play basketball and everyone agreed on the rules. Then after a basket DD failed to "check it" or some such thing and the boys started screaming at her, calling her names, etc. Apparently DD stood her ground (and held onto the ball) as she told them they hadn't said anything about this when explaining the rules. She was taken totally off guard that these boys - who are genuine friends - treated her this way. She had flashbacks to her awful kindergarten experiences where she was regularly hit, kicked, pinched, scratched, etc. Then she panicked and ran out of the gym - not sure if she was crying but clearly *very* upset. The SW spoke to the boys who were, just as Dude said, completely mystified by her reaction. She remained upset the rest of the day and each boy made it a point to apologize to her but the damage was done. That night she said "I just wouldn't feel safe having those boys at my birthday party." That was Friday. On Monday she was informed the other girl was leaving. The next day her pet Beta fish died. Bad, bad timing...

She has been in dance classes for 7 years and also does musical theater in an almost all girl class so has girl time outside of school. She also has a lot of girl friends outside of school. The day before the other girl left I took both of them to lunch at a "tea party restaurant" and for some shopping - a real "girl day". I have also planned a surprise pre-birthday slumber party for next weekend figuring she need some serious "girl time" and I don't know what she will eventually decide about her birthday party in January.

I have discussed the situation with the school and they have told her "She is free to 'take some space' whenever she needs it." We brought in a small sewing machine so DD and one of the teachers can make doll clothes, etc during recess. I also asked that they speak to the boys about trying to understand DD's perspective on what it must feel like to be the only girl when they treat her like that. The SW is supposed to do that one-on-one with each next week. Apparently the other day during gym they were playing football (really? Is that necessary?) and DD got frustrated that the boys who knew the rules were being dismissive of those that didn't and told them to knock it off. According to the teacher they had a class meeting afterwards and DD was quite eloquent in explaining how they need to be more respectful in those situations. Teacher was "so proud of her" but I am concerned about her taking on this role. I guess it's better than feeling like a victim but still not what I would have wanted for her in 4th grade...

Interestingly she has bought a whole bunch of "Be the teacher for a half hour" cards from the reward store. Actually she bought every one that they had. I think this means that she is aligning herself emotionally more with the teachers than with the other kids. I don't know - self defense or just for fun?

I told her she needs to just take care of her own work and not lose sight of the fact that these boys are her friends. These are the same boys they have always been - they are not mean boys, they're just boys. This is where I can add Dude's approach of treating it like an anthropological experience. I also pointed out that if she were in a larger school it is highly unlikely she would spend recess playing basketball with a group of boys but at a small school there has to be a lot more flexibility.

Really though last year one of these boys taught DD how to shoot a basket (and then made it a point to come meet me and said "I was just SO proud of her when she made that first basket!") and another actually noticed she had a migraine at her birthday party last year and sat with her wiping her face with a cool cloth until her meds kicked in (Yeah the parents of her 'home friends' just about melted when they saw this and started asking what they would have to do to get their kids placed at the spec Ed school...) So they really are nice boys but I guess any group of males this age will eventually create a frat house environment huh?

High school girl on her bus transferred out, middle school girl from her 8th grade reading group transferred out and the other girl for last year's class transferred to the "alternative program" designed for kids with ED so not much room for contact there. So yes, DD is basically in an all boy environment. At least until someone finds a way to pull more girls out of a magic hat. But yes, valuable lessons to be learned about operating in a male dominated environment. Thanks for all the input.

I am only usually a lurker on this site, but as the mother of two boys (ages 11 and 13), I felt I had to say something here.

Boys are fully functional beings and are just as capable of being kind and caring as are girls. They do not have to yell, taunt, insult, or do any of the other things mentioned in this thread. Saying that they should be observed like chimps seems to further the notion that there is something not quite human about boys.

If the boys in class are not being kind, they should be called on it. It drives me crazy when people excuse bad behavior by saying boys are "just being boys."

I agree in part with what Jeni says.
At first I thought "brilliant!", too, when I read the Jane Goodall suggestion. Then I thought about how I would explain it to my kid. Observing the other kids as if they were chimpanzees? Sorry, can't imagine. Not on. Try anthropologist, maybe.
But even then, the experience you described is a sign of classroom dynamics out of control. I get that these boys are mostly ADHD, but screaming and calling names about a rule infraction, agreed upon or not? So not on, boys or not. Someone should have stepped in immediately, what's the point of the special ed program with the tiny classrooms otherwise? Gym class or recess, especially recess, the supervision needs to be closer.
I do think that if the program is otherwise right for her, I would not take her out. Yet. But have a come to Jesus meeting about those classroom dynamics and about gym time - sorry, unless it is usual to play football in mixed elementary gym classes, football can't happen. Play softball or do athletics. And keep up the girlfriend stuff.
I'd give her some time about her birthday. I can imagine her to be somewhat shell shocked by this experience. After a few weeks and some time off for Christmas, she may feel safe again about having them at her house - and you'll be there and can promise her to step in immediately, if necessary throw about anyone if they misbehave.

Never happened in this thread. Please try reading before you post.

Tip: An explanation is different from an excuse.

Wow, nice to meet you too, Dude.

I did read the thread. In the OP's original post, she described behavior that was not kind. I was stating my opinion that the boys should be called on that behavior.

Having an opinion different from yours does not mean that I lack reading comprehension skills.

BUT-- attribution and understanding (that boys often use different relational/communication strategies, and that those boys who are in the educational placement described may, in fact, have additional challenges which make more, um, girl-friendly interactions difficult) isn't necessarily the same thing as saying "boys will be boys."

At all.

I understand where you are coming from, Jeni, and I think that Dude does as well. BUT, at the possible risk of offending you both, perhaps-- this is a classic example of the communication differences which often persist into adulthood between persons of different genders. Dude's response clearly read as "brusque" to you, and I suspect that to him, it was just "direct" or maybe "no-nonsense," rather than abrasive. Had it been directed at me, however, I'd have responded much as you did.

He very probably saw your statement (which was also completely understandable in terms of the content of the thread, fwiw) as emotionally-driven and overly reliant upon connotative reading of the statements made. Which is also somewhat valid.


The suggestion was not so much about saying that the behavior itself is okay-- but to note that escalating in response to it isn't a good idea, and that the Jane Goodall approach is a more reasonable and less volatile coping method. IMO, of course. It also isn't my daughter's job to "civilize" her male peers by telling them precisely what she thinks of such antics, if you see what I mean.


I certainly hope that nobody who has posted within this thread actually assumes that all boys behave the way that the OP described!! I know a number of BOYS who would have been just as appalled by that behavior as the OP's daughter was, in fact. I'm assuming that Jeni's sons are probably in that group, too, going by her reaction.

This is just a reminder to be respectful of each other. Verbiage is not something to get all riled up about.

Please, if you have something to say, think of a respectful way to say it.

Thank you.

In regards to your bolded statement, I made it quite clear that the boys are in the wrong, and that they need to know it:






There is no difference of opinion.

A bit of an update:

DD and her teacher have been sewing during recess and all the female staff has been rallying around her to provide "girl time" so things are going better than I had expected. Unfortunately the really (and I do mean REALLY) good SW had some kind of accident the weekend after the basketball incident and has been out of school ever since so hasn't been there to help DD through any of this transition. Hopefully she will be back soon...

At our PT conference the teachers mentioned that they expected things to calm down soon as some of the students were in the process of changes with meds. Apparently the two days this week have been totally calm and quiet so I guess the new meds are working. I asked DD how long the boys have to behave well before she will let herself trust them again and she said a month. So after the holiday break she will go back to the way things used to be. Crossing my fingers and grateful we will be traveling 2 of those weeks.

Over the weekend we went to the theater. Another family sat next to us and the boy (maybe a year or so younger than DD) sat next to DD. Normally she would have been thrilled to have a kid to sit with and would have started chatting with him. This time though she panicked and asked to change seats with me saying "I'm just not comfortable being around a boy."

Yesterday I used a trick I read on another thread and asked DD if anything made her laugh at school that day. No not really. They had music that day and 2 boys (the primary rowdy and his sidekick) were acting up a bit. "I almost laughed once but I suppressed it. After all I don't want to encourage that behavior do I?" I figure that's progress. I'm not really sure in which direction but progress nonetheless.

You might also mention that any behavior in a class of a half dozen is under a microscope.

Have her imagine a class of 6 kids, 20 kids, 35 kids and in college sometimes you have a room full of a hundred kids, and a football stadium full of kids and compare in her imagination a non stop coughing fit by one person. Very disruptive in a group of 6, mildly annoying in a class of 20, 35 kids you might register someone is coughing, 100 kids just background noise and stadium full you might never know someone was coughing.

So she might need to use the basket method of choosing her battles....

basket A is unacceptable behavior and worth her energy (usually possible injury, hurt feelings, rude, unacceptable)...someone needs to be informed about basket a behaviors and action needs to be taken (May or May not be her needing to take action).

basket b might be all that stuff that would just be ignored in a bigger class that is just magnified because of the small numbers ignore it, don't get worked up about it. File it in basket b and move on.

Basket c might be the stuff that she isn't sure if it is totally basket b and she needs a place to file it temporarily, might need to discuss with SW or you at a later time to get perspective on.

It helps to visualize placing the situations in the proper baskets.

And she might even realize that the kids are special needs kids and they might just fill her basket b to the tippy top (just the nature of their special needs) and that might make one thing going into basket A be the thing that kind of pushes her over the edge. More frequent emptying of basket b might help (which would be activities like the sewing, running an errand for a teacher, a trip to the bathroom, a little deep breathing). After a while, her goal would be to not even note in her head basket b stuff.

Good luck

Pemberley: Thanks for the update.

If I'm still on target with my understanding of what happened, I'd try to help your DD move on from this a little faster by pointing out that, while the boys might have gotten loud and angry, they weren't going to hurt her, so there's no need to be afraid.

Also, I'd be keen to point out that not all boys behave the same way, because you don't want to encourage stereotyping.

As for this:


I'd give her permission to go ahead and laugh. It's not her responsibility to make sure the other kids behave. She can relax and enjoy being a kid.

And BTW... a "check" is common in half-court basketball, where both teams are going to the same basket. I think it's supposed to give the team that just scored a basket an opportunity to turn around and prepare to defend. After a basket is scored, the ball goes to the other team*, and one of their players takes it to midcourt, says, "Check!", and passes to a player on the now-defending team... who passes it back, and normal play resumes.

*Sometimes a game will be played with a modified rule of "winners bring in," where a team who scores gets to keep the ball, but the play still restarts the same, with the ball at midcourt and a check pass to the opponent.

Thanks for the explanation Dude. I was telling another mom about the incident and she just shrugged her shoulders. DH was listening nearby and interjected "Well of course you have to check it!" The other mom and I just exchanged blank looks. Umm...yeah... gender differences...

The rest of the week in school went well and leader of the rowdy behavior earned "Friday reward" for the first time all year so I am guessing new meds will make a difference for everyone. DD was proud of him and recognized how hard it must be for him to not always be able to fully control his behavior. She also acknowledged feeling a bit guilty for getting rewards for behavior that comes so easily to her when her friends find it so difficult. She really has a heart of gold... She made a comparison to dominoes - if this boy acts up he gets the next one going on down the line. When he is behaving better "it makes it easier for each of the others to keep standing. Well except for the little boys - they don't need anyone to knock them over, They just sort of do it on their own."

Last night was DD's surprise slumber party and it was a huge success. Doing each others hair, nails and make up while talking about "how stupid boys are" alternately with who they had crushes on - a totally "girly night" if ever there was one. Her friends sympathized with DD being the only girl in school and one even said "So that's why we're here tonight - huh?" and went on to explain that even though in her class girls outnumber the boys by more than 2 to 1 the boys are still rowdy and can be difficult to handle.

I think instead of a big party we will do a couple more small get togethers with special friends - including 2 close boy friends and their sisters. OK so she won't be able to include everyone but her birthday will be acknowledged and she'll have time with boys who she is very fond of. That should also help with getting over the idea that all boys are alike. Interestingly before this she had an amazing ability to compartmentalize - she loved the kids even if she hated their behavior sometimes. That is such an amazing skill - I hope she can recapture it.

Oh and I was going to talk to her about loosening up and laughing if she felt like it but she said she has been instructed not to. "No really mom we're not supposed to laugh. We really can't encourage that behavior. We're supposed to encourage them to do the right thing," For better or for worse she is a role model and takes it very seriously.

Glad to hear there have been so many positive moments for your DD!

DD is right, though, the peers do have to be instructed not to laugh, as, if the behavior is reinforced by peer attention, it doesn't matter if teachers use selective attention or ignoring strategies, or any other strategy, with 100% consistency, laughter from the peer group will continue to maintain the target behavior. She may view this in different ways than the staff do, but the point actually is not to be a role model, but simply to avoid reinforcing undesirable behavior. OTOH, if they do something appropriate, feel free to reward them with attention (laughing or otherwise).

Another update:

On Friday when I picked DD up from school she said one of the boys had a basketball game the next day and asked if we could go watch. Of course we did, even though it was almost an hour away from our home. She sat quietly, watching it all intently as I chatted with his parents. Yesterday another of the boys made a point of telling me he was going to basketball practice after school. (Who knew basketball was so popular?) Anyway I told him that if he tells DD when he has a game we would come cheer him on too. He fist pumped and jumped in the air - so, so happy.

When I later told DD how nice I thought it was that she wanted to see the boys play she said very matter of factly "Really Mom I just want to understand what the heck they're talking about all the time." So I think she's figuring out the anthropological approach all on her own. She and I both still wish she had some female classmates but it all seems to be working out..

Hi everyone I'm reviving this thread because I need some real, practical advice.

DD continues to be the only girl in her class but this year is going SO much better. The 2 most rowdy boys have moved on (the ring leader moved to the middle school area and his side kick changed schools) and the remaining boys are all a good fit so it's been a nice, calm year so far. They arranged for DD to have "weekly" discussions with a high school girl to augment her 1-1 HS literature curriculum. I figured it would be a double win - a good discussion partner and maybe an older female friend. The other girl chose "The Odyssey" as their book. DD loves Greek mythology so was thrilled. It seemed a good choice with no content to worry about for DD's younger age. Unfortunately they have only met together once as the HS girl isn't always available as planned. (This week they missed it so high schooler could work on her essay for college applications. Not really something my 5th grader could relate to...)

Anyway here is where I need advice. How would you parents of girls deal with the whole puberty issue in this scenario? No health class, no other girls to discuss or compare with. Knowing DD was the only example these boys had in their midst I opted out of age appropriate discussions with her last year for fear she would become extremely uncomfortable. (Personally I am *extremely* uncomfortable with the whole topic and was happy to have an excuse to avoid it. Unfortunately time... and puberty... wait for no one so it is now biting me in the rear end...) I now have to play catch up and am in a bit of a crisis situation...

One of her best friends is a gifty and very precocious - comes from a medical family so is MILES ahead in her knowledge of this stuff but also several years behind developmentally (only hit the 50 pound mark at the age of 10 1/2 and looks more like a 7 year old...). Her mother and I had decided earlier this year to do a girly-info session slumber party along with another friend who has 2 older sisters and whose parents are both OB/Gyns that refer to this as "dinner conversation in our house." I thought their extreme comfort level would be a great balance to my own discomfort and would help demystify everything. Unfortunately that friend moved away before we could do it. DD will be sleeping over at other friend's house this weekend with the specific intent of having girl conversations about all of it.

I have heard great things about the American Girl books "The Care and Keeping of You" and "Is this Normal". I like the idea of her reading at her own pace and level and then (gulp) answering questions as they arise but with a kid with serious LD issues this isn't so easy. She is finally decoding at a 5th grade level so I was able to get the book for younger girls but have not been able to find a way to download an audio version which would be easier for her.

So what would you suggest? I have handled all the LD, anxiety, migraine, school issues,, etc head on but this one freaks me out. Advice please?

We're big fans of the "It's so Amazing" book and there is one by the same authors geared at older kids as well. I will caution that it covers some topics that some families might consider touchy so pre-read if you think this might be an issue.

We did this when the kids were younger so it wasn't a big deal that we read it at bed time and then discussed (we were always reading to them anyways...). I wasn't the most comfortable about this but it really helped me that I was just reading the book rather than trying to figure out what to say on my own. Once we got the ball rolling it became easier. Some deep breathes and I survived. I just kept reminding myself that my level of comfort was irrelevant to my kids getting factual information for their health and happiness. Eventually I actually felt not too bad about it and it opened the door to hopefully continue to have discussions as this stuff actually becomes relevant to their lives.

Not sure that helps, good luck!

Do you have access to BrainPop and BrainPop Junior? I remember when my DS was 6, he was watching an episode on the difference between bodies of males and females and puberty and it was done in a very informative way. I remember only because of the torrent of related questions that I had to answer after that. It is a good resource to get started with.

I would read the American Girl book to her and tell her she can ask questions as you go along. DD just turned 10 and she is very average for her age in terms of growth and I don't see any obvious signs of development, but pediatrician told me I should be assembling a "kit" for her to put in her locker, getting her the books (and he suggested the AG book as well), etc. I was thinking Whoa, she still looks like a little girl to me, but there was a little bump on the growth chart, in terms of height (personally I think it's because of the greatly reduced dose of her ADHD meds, not impending puberty).

As the OP has redirected the thread to a question of approaching sex ed, here is an old thread discussing approaches to sex ed for a 10 year old.

That comment also really rubbed me the wrong way. I find it offensive.

As far as the scenario, that's our DD. Her friends come from very religious backgrounds. The school system bewilderingly doesn't address this until 8th grade... by which time many children who were held back for various reasons (and are thus more at risk to start with) are already engaged in sexual activities. And even when the school system finally does get around to it, it's abstinence only, which has been well documented to lead to exactly the same outcome we're currently experiencing... as of 2010, LA had the 5th highest teen pregnancy rate in the nation. All of our neighboring states, who do it mostly the same way, outrank us.

So yeah, it's pretty much all on DW and I. DW assumed the lead.

We handled it in phases. Phase I was discussion of the biological differences in boys and girls, and the physical maturation processes. DW provided American Girls books, added her own lectures, and took DD to the store to acquire some preparatory items.

Phase II was discussion of the biological process of human reproduction, contraception, and disease prevention. Even though DW was very uncomfortable with this (and I much less so), she decided she was the one best qualified to discuss this, so she prepared some materials and gave a morning over to teaching DW on this topic while I was away at work, much like it was another homeschool science lesson.

Since then, the door has officially been opened on the topic of human sexuality, and we address any of DD's questions whenever or however they come up.

We set ourselves some firm time limits to have these discussions, otherwise it'd be easy to keep putting them off, because they're uncomfortable. Since DW had her first menses at 9, Phase I had to be done before DD turned 9. For Phase II, we reached into our own memories and decided we'd had sex ed in 5th grade, and with DD accelerated into 5th grade, we decided to do it after she turned 10. DD had been 10 for several months, and I'd prodded DW a few times, before it finally got taken care of.

Side benefit: We've officially upgraded DD's media access to our definition of PG-13, and now DD requests to watch reruns of Friends, DW's favorite show of all time.

Hi Pemberley,

My girls are huge fans of the American Girl books - having read them, I think reading the books *with* your dd might be a great way to get the discussion started and help you feel more at ease too. Have you looked at them? I'm wondering if they are far above your dd's reading level? My 11 year old dyslexic dd has read them - granted, I don't know how difficult it was for her or how much info she got from the books specifically vs friends etc... but fwiw, her reading level is below grade level and she *never* reads just for the sake of reading. Both of my girls really enjoyed having those books as their own, and tucked away where they could look at them and read through them when they felt like looking at them.

Another way to start a conversation is to start with more general talk about feelings, growing up etc. My brain's not awake enough at the moment to explain in more detail, but there is so much more going on with girls at this age in terms of maturing than puberty alone.

Best wishes, and hang in there!

polarbear

Thanks everyone. Lots of good resources I will check out. I was able to load the audio version of "Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret" onto her phone. This book was like the bible for this stuff when I was a kid. Am I dating myself or is this still a good choice?

The other day DD said "Under no circumstances do we discuss any of this with dad - he will totally freak out!" Then she did a cartoon character version of a rapid head shake, with her cheeks flapping and an almost inhuman "duhhhhh". I couldn't help but laugh as I agreed to her request. I was out in the evening when she came home and found the American Girl book waiting for her on her bed. The next morning DH told me he got to the door of her room, found her totally engrossed in reading it and she told him "You are not allowed to look inside this book. I'm serious - not ever." He is quite relieved but in all seriousness it does point out the problem with the all male school environment...

Ugh...

Totally. Outside. My. Comfort. Zone.

We love the American Girl books also. DD seems to have hers near her bed at all times.

My girls also liked having the American Girls books in their room so they could use them as a reference. They were much more comfortable reading about this stuff on their own. I always let them know that I was open to questions but they rarely took me up on it.