I'm looking at a gifted program for DD for next fall (going into 4th grade), and they take test scores and put kids at the right level. I talked to one of the teachers and told him that DD's current computerized achievement test scores for math are somewhere above the 99th percentile. He said she would need to be tested again but she would be most likely placed into a group doing 6th grade math, so she would basically skip 4th and 5th grade math. The gifted program includes grades 4-6 and they mix all the kids up depending on their level. So she would be doing 6th grade Holt. What is that, Pre-Algebra? I have no idea. They also had textbooks for Algebra I and Geometry, so I assume those would be for 5th and 6th grade.
I asked him what about the gaps? She is currently in third grade in a ridiculous school that does not give any accelerated work, so she is doing the third grade math curriculum. She tests so high on the computerized testing (like MAP) because of the little I do at home. For instance let's spend 5 minutes learning about equivalent fractions. Got it? Good. But I am not doing any special curriculum in any order. He said he expects there to be gaps and he will figure out what they are and quickly accelerate through the 4th and 5th grade curriculum. He said Holt spirals so it will come back to that stuff anyway. I guess I'm just kind of skeptical, and wondering if I should maybe get the Holt textbooks and go through the 4th and 5th grade levels with her this summer. Or what else should I do? I'm thrilled that we found a school that will do something for gifted kids but also wondering if it's too much. Since she was already grade accelerated she will be 8 years old doing pre-algebra.

Oh, yeah, I also need to add that DD is twice exceptional with ADHD and they said that's fine, probably 20 percent of the kids there are twice expeptional and they will do whatever modifications they need. I mentioned that she's slow with writing and they said they have another kid who types his work, they will figure it out. I practically hugged the teacher, couldn't believe it. I'm wondering what I'm missing because it seems almost two good to be true. My only concern is that they admitted that there aren't really good supports at the Junior High or high school for these kids, there's no real progression (although I think they will bus Junior High kids to the high school for math if needed), and they would be thrown right back into the mix with not much gifted support. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

My DD is in 2nd and has just tested into the gifted program for next year, where they will be doing 4th grade math, which means she'll effectively skip 3rd. Which is fine, conceptually, because she's already up to 4th grade math in Dreambox learning and other math software, so I know she gets the concepts. But, she doesn't necessarily know how to work the numbers on paper and she doesn't have her multiplication and division facts memorized--she could work through that, except that she's easily frustrated and a perfectionist so I know she'll panic instead.

So long story short, I just went in this week to talk to her teacher about her starting 3rd grade math now. They're being a PITA about real accommodation but at least they've finally agreed to let her do 3rd grade in the classroom after she finishes the regular 2nd grade worksheets. They started her on the 5th unit which she says is still dead easy, but better than 2nd grade math. I bought the homeschool version of the 3rd grade curriculum the district uses off of eBay, so we can finish the rest of it during the summer.

It's awesome that your program has a lot of 2E kids. My daughter has ADHD as well and the program in our current district has almost no 2E kids at all.

Speaking from experience, have her learn multiplication facts over the summer. It isn't as hard as we all remember, and really helpful.

Seems exactly as good as it should be for all kids; it's really what schools should be about.

As you mentioned you pop a concept out in five minutes and done. I wouldn't be concerned about gaps at all. I think the greater bulk of K-5th grade math could be covered in the first few months of third grade for many highly gifted kids if presented at their pace.

Exactly! The last year has been somewhat of a nightmare with my having to remove DD's younger brother from her toxic school, and DD was stuck there. Her teacher at least isn't hostile but the overall school environment is just no good for either gifted or special needs (or worse yet 2e). So anything where people actually sound reasonable and nice really shocks me, like it just can't be possible. DS's new IEP manager and teacher for first grade told me that they need to build off DS's strengths (he's also 2e) and I about fell out of my chair. The teacher told me she asked for a day off from teaching and for the class to have a sub because she wanted to do academic testing on him and needed a whole day. I thought she was kidding but she showed me a huge pile and she wasn't. After reading this forum for so long and all the bad experiences of people I had pretty much given up. But there are good teachers out there.

Anyway, DD does know the multiplication and division facts but definitely needs to brush up and get faster so that's one thing I will be doing with her.

You could go to Aleks.com and have her take the assessment and see what she needs to work on...it is a paid site but very good for filling gaps.

FWIW,

We are in a tiny rural district and so given the pace of Maths learning in such an environment we elected to let DD work with the SM books outside of the classroom and she finished level 5 over a year ago. This is a girl that told DW and I that 3^2 + 4^2 == 5^2 about 6 months into her 6th year after being shown how cool squares and square roots are.

Even with the skip from 2nd to 4th she is still testing at advanced proficient - she tested like that back in September so continues to get 90s with a sprinkling of hundreds.

We are blessed with a tremendous teacher that provides DD with 7-9 grade challenging problem to work with but she has chosen to sometimes just read her book which I am fine with.

Her VCI even without extended scoring is 150 versus a PRI of 145 without. We are letting the LA stuff lie for now as she has learned things like RACE this year.

Compared to a lot of kids whoseparents frequent this she is a dullard!

At home she completed Lure of the Labyrinth and seems ( after a transition to the more rigorous AoPS style) to be holding her own and will work through the pre-algebra book on her own now after the first 2 weeks.

What's my point?

This is not a brag but an illustration of an alternative that has worked up to now for my DD. this could all turn on a pinhead, of course LOL. I wouldn't get overly invested in just in school acceleration alone because for an outlier this may not yield the returns you might expect.

YMMV

speaking of ALEKS, DS just brought home a sheet freom AdaptedMind Math with a username and password--his teacher wants him to do it. So far it looks good. It teaches the concepts like ALEKS or ixl.com and if they get 5 or 10 in a row correct it "passes" them and moves onto the next thing. I'm not sure if there was a placement test involved or not. So I need to look up how much it would cost to add DD, or maybe I can ask her teacher if she has access to it.

blackcat, that gifted program sounds amazing for your DD! I got tired of waiting for math acceleration to start at DD's school, so we've started EPGY (open enrollment) for DD for now. So far, we love it! It allows DD to go at her own pace. Perhaps you can start your DD on a level that would allow her to "fill in possible gaps" and then cruise forward?

All the best!!!

Loy58, I'm going to send you a PM

Since they will be testing her before placement, I don't think you need to worry about gaps. Besides, there is so much spiraling in the elementary curriculum that she should be able to pick up from 6th grade math without too much effort even if there are a few gaps. 6th grade is technically middle school in our area but math-wise I would still group it with elementary math. In most curriculums, 7th grade math is pre-algebra although I have seen some "delayed" curiculums with 8th grade math as pre-algebra. In our district, normal GT math uses the textbook that is one grade level ahead along with enrichment but a number of kids are tested out of 5th grade GT math (6th grade math text) into Pre-Algebra as 5th graders. Since my DS was already accelerated in 2nd grade, he tested into that pre-algebra program as a 4th grader. Anyway, my point is that the consensus seem to be that it is okay to skip any year of elementary math (K to 6th) but not pre-algebra.

Since you have been reassured that 2E will be fully accomodated, you really don't have to worry for now. I would let middle and high school take care of themselves as there may be other options once your DD reach that level.

My school district uses the Holt textbooks, 6th grade is 'Holt Mathematics Course 1: Numbers to Algebra', 7th grade math is 'Holt Course 2: Pre-Algebra' and 8th either Holt Algebra I or Transitional Algebra (different publisher) if the student isn't ready for Algebra. My son was a year advanced of that and his class studied from Holt Math Course 1 book in 5th & Holt Course 2: Pre-Algeba in 6th, and Algebra in 7th. Fairly standard for kids in the GATE program.

My guess is that your daughters 6th grade would be the Holt Course 1 book. I wouldn't worry too much about your daughter missing out, as I think this is a book at touches on all expected topics. Elementary Math is often designed to be spiral learning. And that means ever year usually in 4-6th grade, most of the same topics are covered just in more depth every year. My son skipped "4th grade" math with no problems.

bluemagic, do you like the Holt curriculum? I remember being told a long time ago that the district students are ready for pre-alegebra 1 year earlier than elsewhere, because the regular math curriculum is accelerated (before Holt they use Math Expressions). It seems unbelievable because for both kids it is SO incredibly slow and simplistic. I can't imagine anything that is MORE slow. I don't remember seeing the 6th grade book in the classroom but they did have Alegebra I and Geometry books. I'll try to do what I can during the summer but it looks like I need to work a lot on speed/fluency with her. I'm having her privately tested for the 2e situation and on the Woodcock Johnson her math fluency score was 3rd grade level and applied problems was 7th-8th grade equivalent (don't remember exactly and I don't have a score report). She understands everything, but the output/speed just isn't there. They say they can accommodate though, so maybe they'll just have to cut the workload way back. Give her half the number of problems to complete or something.

Honestly, I didn't spend a lot of time looking at the Holt Course 1 & 2 Books so I really couldn't say. Neither my son nor I had any particular problems with it. My son was in a dedicated gifted class at the time and they did enrich with outside challenge packets as well. Those enrichment work was the only math where he needed help.

Sounds good, thanks bluemagic. I know lots of people gripe about "spiraling" but I think it's good if they are moving at a very fast pace or accelerated.

Hello, Loy58. Can you tell me a little more 1) How does the teaching take place - thru taped lectures ? 2)What can you tell me about the Instructor based Course vrs open .

Thank you so much,

Can anyone recommend the best site I can PRINT math assessments from? Rather than working online, I'd like something that I can score and bring in to a meeting at my son's school. Age 10, 6th grade, but he's probably able to do grade 8 math.

Cee, much better to have them assess him than do it yourself. They are likely to believe their own assessments.

For those looking for speed/automaticity on multiplication/division facts.... Brain Pop has a new game online called Multiplication Blocks.

Basically a number drops down and you have to choose 2-3 factors for it that are touching each other. My son (7) has been eating it up. With his processing score and ADHD, it is hard to find something that works. Even choosing the lowest setting, the game increases in difficulty as he plays it. His speed has vastly improved and he is learning some of the facts he did not yet know. He asks to play it and it can be used on iPad as well. Best multiplication game he has played.

Good to know. I told DD she should do Big Brainz the other day since she forgets the mult. facts if she doesn't keep reviewing them and she said that the timer is too distracting and refused to do it. Ok, so then why did she tell me to renew the subscription to it? I'll try Multiplication Blocks w/ her.

Hi blackcat, DD8's school made the kids finish "Xtra Math" multiplication as part of their homework (they had it as homework every day until they were finished). It's free! We actually did this with DD starting in 2nd grade and she now knows them cold (and it was a bit painful to start - turns out DD's "working memory" is a "relative weakness" for her, as it is perfectly average, her 2 lowest subtests BY FAR on the WISC). She HATED it to start (you have to get quick with them), but boy, did she learn them!

luvedu - sorry I missed your earlier post. EPGY has "voice lectures." We've never tried the instructor-based courses for EPGY (I could not justify the cost considering the small amount of time DD has for EPGY during the school year - hopefully, she'll do more in the summer). Open Enrollment is MUCH less expensive.

You can try out Math Blocks for free. Just get on brainpop.com and search "multiplication blocks" or just "blocks" and you'll find it. We have a 4SD spread with processing speed so many things frustrated him and he wouldn't do it. He went from throwing fits about it to saying math was his favorite subject and begging for more when we added the Blocks game in our activities.

Loy--yep we have tried/used that as well. But they aren't that thrilled. DD really liked Big Brainz at first so I'm not sure what happened. Maybe the novelty has just worn off. She already made it to the end so there is nothing new to "discover". She then promptly forgot half of it. I think she knows all the multiplication facts because they now do it in school, she is just kind of slow with recalling them. She fails every timed test. Her working memory was ok on the WISC, something like 96th percentile so I'm not sure why she has such a hard time with math facts. It was processing speed which was really quite poor and below 100 so that probably has something to do with it. DS's working memory was actually a lot lower than DD's on the WISC and he worked his way through Big Brainz a lot faster (even though he is 16 months younger he was ahead of DD--it drove her nuts).

Lol, Blackcat! Your DC are so much like mine! DS5 learned multiplication by osmosis while DD was learning them. DS seems to love numbers and appears to have a great memory - drove my DD nuts, too!

Blackcat-- My 7 yr old says, "I know what it is, I just can't call it up".

He's pretty adept at verbalizing his experience. Processing speed is the bane of his existence--scary low... getting to automaticity is a huge sticking point in showing what he really knows. It's in there, he just can't pull it up in the moment with the pressure of being asked to "perform".

Teachers thought he was being difficult or stubborn or actually didn't know the answer when they put him on the spot. Sounds like your DD is similar. It is really challenging to find ways to grow that automaticity without invoking the anxiety and resistance those types of tasks usually garner.

Re. Prep for 6th grade Maths, I concur that what are called 'multiplication/division' facts have to be mastered. Also, the ideas that a) a vulgar fraction is merely an expression showing a numerator divided by a divisor and b) division is merely multiplication by the reciprocal will really clear up any confusion with fractions and especially fractional division. It is far better to understand why instead of remembering to blindly flip the divisor.

My DD's school used First in Math when she was in 1st and 2nd grade. Serendipidously, no restrictions were put in place so DD could access the higher grade work. There were plenty of speed drills there that helped her to internalize these facts. Blind memorization followed by drills seems to have cemented them in place.

My DD was very similar - eerily so.

Further practice, which increased fluency and confidence was the only thing that helped overcome the perfectionism - see previous post on drills. Also, working through the SM and the Zaccaro challenging Maths without a calculator helped.

The final thing has been the AoPS pre-algebra class, especially their coverage of the properties of the arithmetic operations and number theory.

The speed with which my DD can cover material always leaves nagging doubts about how much of what she has apparently learned will stand a vigorous shaking. What I have seen of the AoPS pre-algebra class helps to quell those doubts.

I found some blank 5th grade Singapore Math books at the Goodwill of all places for $1 so I'm thinking I'll have her do that over the summer as well as the math facts games online. I wonder if there is a way to hide/remove the Timer on Big Brainz. She says there's not, so maybe I can figure out how to cover it up on the screen. Otherwise we'll go back to Xtra Math, but with that I have to hide the "tutors" that are right there on the screen...at least that's not hard to do.
It's frustrating watching her stare at a screen blankly when it's something like 3+2. Must be frustrating for her as well. Of course she knows what that is, but just doesn't seem to process the information or respond (not sure which one). I put her into occupational therapy and the therapist had her do IM therapy (interactive metronome) in an effort to boost processing speed/motor output, but after about 3 sessions stopped doing it because DD had it pretty much mastered. I was really surprised by that...why would that be simple for her but she can't process 3+2.