DH and I are thinking of buying a new house and we are looking at different school options as a part of our decision. It is difficult to figure out what might be a good fit because our boys are young (5 and 2). It seems like the typical advice of "talk to other parents" is not as helpful when you have a kid that might need something different than the standard classroom.

This is what we know about our kids so far. DS5 had an EG level WPPSI in the spring. He is doing well early entranced in private half day kindergarten. I am starting to think it isn't a normal kindergarten too. This week he brought home a spelling test, a math test (single digit addition), and his life science vocabulary and diagram of spider parts (including among other things the abdomen, cephalothorax, pedipalps, chelicera, spinnerets and exoskeleton). We have some concerns he might be dyslexic but at this time there is no diagnosis. He also started EPGY a few weeks ago and has made it about a quarter of the way through first grade math. DS2 seems about like his brother so at this point we are going with what works for our oldest will probably work for the younger one.

Anyone have recommendations on what to look for and how to weed through information on a school district to figure out how they would likely treat a kid like ours?

I am also interested in what parents of older kids would recommend. We would probably be staying in this house through our kids' school years.

Of course I am well aware that long range planning can only be based on current programs which could be cut at anytime.

(While writing this, DS5 has made a giant spider web in his room with masking tape and dental floss. Assorted action figures have been caught and are awaiting their doom)

We did this. I suggest you look to see if their gifted program is a pull-out enrichment or if they have all the gifted kids together for class. For example, the first district we were in had a pull-out enrichment program where the gifted kids went for 2/12 hours a week in 3rd grade. Where we moved, the kids were grouped with a gifted teacher for math for 90 minutes and a gifted teacher for Enligh/Social Studies for 2/12 hours, every day. Kids could qualify for one or the other or both. The math did two years of math per grade level so that the kids are ready for Algebra I in 7th grade. Only one of the disticts we looked at started full-time gifted programming in kindergarten - the rest didn't start until 3rd grade (but since we were already in 3rd at a private school, it didn't matter). Here, in Texas, though they have to be identified in Kindergarten whereas in some places the identification doesn't happen until 3rd grade.

The enrichment in the first district was a study of China one year, ancient Greece one year, the Civil War, etc. I think by 6th grade they were up to 4 hours a week of "enrichment", when the gifted teacher wasn't pulled off her classes to do testing or substituting or bus duty or whatever.

Also, look at the testing that the district does to identify gifted kids. One district we looked at took kids at the 90th percentile and above. Our current district takes kids at the 97th percentile and above. There's a big difference.

Make sure that the gifted program starts in elementary school. We looked at a lot of places where the program was excellent but didn't start until middle school (7th grade). I'd also ask about what happens if you want to take a break from gifted programming. Do you have to requalify to get back in? Or can you take a furlough and move in and out of the program without having to requalify? Our district does the latter, which helped us last year in 6th grade when there was concern that my son was not mature enough to do the gifted reading. So, we took a break from it and moved him back in this year. (Turns out that was a mistake, but we had the option without the pressure of taking another test to qualify.)

I don't know what to recommend as far as tests go. Our first district narrowed the field with the CoGat and then followed up with the ITBS. I've read that the CoGat isn't a good identifier and that the ITBS is only good if it is out of level, but I don't know for sure. For our new district, we used outside testing so he hasn't been tested by the school.

Visit the schools and observe the classrooms. Are they kids sitting down and "listening" or are they up and interactive? Is there an atmosphere of discipline with flexibilty or is it rigid and structured. Many gifted kids need to be able to stand up while they do math or sit on the floor and read (even in middle school, our gifted English teacher has bean bags in her classroom where the kids can read).

Talk to the superintendent to see how on board he/she is with supporting a gifted program. I did this and one waved off the question. One told me in detail how he has two daughters, a neice, and a nephew in the gifted program. That told me a lot - that he was invested in it, he believed in giftedness, and he would support it. If you get "all children are gifted", say thank you and run.

Hope some of that helps. It is a hard decision but can make a real difference.

Thanks petunia, these are great suggestions and the exact reason I came here looking for ideas on how to approach this.

We are currently in a district with a third through sixth half day per week pull out. It is only enrichment. There is nothing for junior high students and I have never heard anyone say anything good about the local high school.

Our top choices right now include the following:

District A: Lots of community support for the schools and plenty of smart kid friendly enrichment programs at school like science club, chess, lego club, etc. Gifted kids get their own curriculum plan but there is no grouping. Differentiation is in the classroom. I have heard from another parent that subject acceleration is no problem and that while they don't have a program for gifted kids, they are flexible.

District B: This one seems to understand gifted issues more than the other. There is a self-contained program for grades 2-6 and a gifted magnet junior high. There is also an gifted mentor at each school to help make curriculum adjustments for gifted kids who are not in the self-contained program. There is a snippet on their website that their program seeks to serve a student population with different needs and that the program isn't necessarily for the highest achieving students. There is even a part addressing the gifted underachiever and gifted students as "at risk" for underachievement and dropping out if they are not given an appropriate education. The only real red flag for this one is they specifically state there is no consideration of outside testing in either the initial application or an appeal. They use the CogAt and ITBS. I know of one disgruntled parent who thought their kid should qualify but didn't. I don't know the kid or the parent that well so I am not sure how much that matters.

Testing data for option A v. option B has A way ahead. The community that feeds into option A is much more educated/affluent and most students are going to be from homes that stress academic achievement. Almost every option A high school student graduates and attends college. Option B has a more average spread.

We are in an affluent, high achieving district. If you just looked at the gifted offerings, you would head elsewhere. However, this district and the two neighboring districts have good, rigorous courses in HS, and over 90% of kids go to four year colleges.

Math is not even part of our gifted program; math differentiation starts in 5th and is based upon testing. There is advanced math in 5th grade, then students test again at the end of 5th. All students take math ERBs. If they score well on the ERBs, they are in advanced math (one year ahead). If they score really well on ERBs, then they take the Iowa. If they score well on the Iowa, then they are two years advanced.

There are plenty of enrichment opportunities as well - clubs, competitions, etc. I would say that elementary and even middle school may be boring for the gifted kid, but HS offers some great courses. Gifted is just some pull-out programs, and those seem to start and stop at random times during the year.

However, I suggest you look ahead to the HS years. While there may not be much in the way of gifted offerings, as others have noted on these boards, see how many National Merit Semifinalists (NMSF) there are each year. In our district, this year there are 24 (which is 8% of the class). I took a quick look at the college choices for the 2012 class, and there are at least 12 that went to Ivies and plenty of others went to top ranked schools (class size is 300 students).

My point is that even if the gifted program doesn't look so great, if there are lots of bright/gifted kids in the district, your kids will have friends at or near their level. While a stronger gifted program might help the kids in this district, they seem to do just fine. Lots of top students here are very engaged in a lot of extra curricular activities. I know that plenty of the kids here knew all the kindergarten stuff before they went to school, but very few are grade skipped. It may be tough to look beyond the elementary years, but I suggest you make sure that the HS is strong; a great elementary program is useless if the HS program is weak (and you don't plan to move again).

Well your private Kindy is DEFINITELY not the norm....my ds would LOVE to study spiders! I can give no great advice as we have poor gifted programs in elementary. The programs get much stronger in middle school with a plethora of AP in HS, but it's hard to look that far ahead part dismal early offerings.

The programs available to high schoolers at both options are the same. There are honors, AP and this:

http://www.k12.wa.us/SecondaryEducation/CareerCollegeReadiness/RunningStart.aspx

I think the difference is going to be that in the high achieving district there will be a greater percentage of students working to get into top universities. There will parent support for challenging options. While it isn't a "everyone is gifted" mentality, the message is that almost every student in the district is capable of high achievement with hard work.

The flip side being that option B is a larger district that seems to identify gifted kids early and group them together. So a gifted kid could have roughly the same classmates from 2-9. Presumably they would make some friends during that time with whom they could navigate the high school options.

KJP,

I was in your shoes for a few years. Our DDs old school does not offer much of differentiation. Gifted program has pull out 3-4 hrs a week for probably 20 weeks in a year. When we look for different school districts, there was one with all schools (elementary to high school) exemplary rating which is very rare in Texas. It's exactly like your district A. It's in very affluent neighborhood and if you are not IN crowd, the school life could be difficult.

The other school district offers great Gifted programs with acceleration on all identified kids. (3-4 hrs a day for both Math and Reading in elementary, TAG or accelerated classes in Middle school and AP, dual enrollment in High school. They have different economic background and ethnicity as well. We decided with the latter. We wanted our kids to see the diversity, help or be helped during their school years and it will be their lesson in life.

I second NSG. Choosing High school is more important. You can supplement when they are up to 5th grade at home but yo ucan not supplement much when they start Middle and High School because of their (loads of )homework.

We are happy with our decision and I am sure you will be too.

Personally, I wouldn't count on just supplementing outside of school. If your child continues to test in the EG range, then even the first couple of years of sitting in a class listening to teachers repeat everything ten times could lead to a seriously jaded and/or under-achieving outcome.

Option B sounds much more appealing, the differentiated instruction may be more geared towards the intellectually gifted over the high achieving. You EG child may only need to hear something once to learn it; an average high achieving student may still need simpler explanations with high repetitions. Also, in option B you may be welcomed as an advocating parent trying to look out for their gifted child rather than just another parent trying to push the school for their high achiever.

But everyone has their own read on things and their children, and I've located in a very large district that "gets" gifted. and my DS6 is in a magnet school more resembling your option B.

I recommend that you also ask if the district will qualify for the gifted classes with your outside testing. Some will, some won't.

Another thing to look at is intellectual peers. It sounds like that would be hard for EG son to find at Option A. It really makes a huge difference being in class with kids who "get it" than with kids who need repetition. And, your child is going to need other kids to challenge him and talk to him about stuff he wants to talk about.

Personally, I would jump at Option B. Meet with the gifted coordinator and show her/him your WPPSI testing and see if that would qualify him. Get a feel for the program. See how interested she is in having your son.

Please keep in mind that being gifted does not necessarily relate to being a high achiever. Many gifted kids are B students, not because they are not intellectually capable but because the work can slow them down or they don't see a point in doing it or it's something they master three years ago. In my experience, highly gifted kids (in general) don't care much about grades. High achievers do.

I would rent if the right public school is your priority. When things change, as they will, you can move.

I could post the same thing as NotSoGifted....to the extent that I wonder if we're in the same school district!

The one thing I would add in our experience is that even though the gifted offerings are not terrific in early years, my kids have a lot of peers. All three of our kids are in the elementary school gifted program, where requirement for entry is 130+ on WISC. (I have one MG, one HG and one EG.) There are approximately 10-15 kids per grade in that pull-out program. So even while the program is limited (2x week pull-out), they all have peers in their regular classroom and there is clear differentiation going on within each classroom.

After spending a few days looking at houses and timing potential commutes, the less affluent but more "gifted is grouped together" district is pulling ahead in the decision making process. The commute is about half the other option. In researching the district more closely I came across another program they offer that might work for my son. It is not a gifted program per se but it does seem like it could address the needs of a gifted learner by being flexible. Here is the summary:
    
"The program provides an elementary school option emphasizing parental involvement, teacher continuity, and program flexibility. It serves students in grades one through six, from throughout the School District, who want a different educational delivery system than the standard school setting.

The program presents a meaningful, rigorous curriculum based on School District and State Standards, utilizing School District adopted textbooks and real-world materials to accomplish curriculum goals for a broad range of learners. Acceleration, enrichment, and reinforcement is provided as appropriate.

A student remains in the program from year-to-year, working with the same team of teachers.  The program has opportunities for multi-age learning to help students develop team-building and leadership skills.

Parents expand the learning team by providing the equivalent of two hours of volunteering per week. A strong bond is created between the home and school allowing parents to reinforce daily learning.  Volunteering opportunities are abundant and varied.  Working parents may arrange to volunteer after working hours."

The program uses positive discipline and a lot of hands on learning which I know will work well for my son.

There is also a Montessori program in the district which does multiage groupings.

So there are a few more reasons to like this district for the elementary years. We'd have some options.

Interestingly enough, the high school in this district had more National Merit Semifinalists than the smaller affluent school.

Thanks everyone for the input.

I am just venting.
So we are still looking at houses...

DH called Option B's gifted coordinator. It didn't go well. Gems from this conversation included "There is no such thing as a gifted kindergartener" and "We never look at outside testing because parents can buy the scores they want"

I was lucky enough to connect with some moms of 2e students from Option A that warned me away from there.

We love the little private school he attends now but it isn't a long term option.

We are looking at a house today in a 2A district that does cluster grouping for gifted kids. I guess I will call it Option C. The one thing I can say with certainty about this option is that DS5 would love the after school programs there. They include an environmental club responsible for the school's garden, landscaping and stream, a strategic games club and Destination Imagination.

It is frustrating because I won't know if a school will "work" until we try it.

Bummer! Things can be made to look so good on a website. Unfortunately, the truth is sometimes a bit different. That's such a strange comment for a gifted coordinator to say about "no such thing...." I guess if you ended up liking the houses in that district you could investigate further, trying to find out what they do with kindergartners who are working at x level (without mentioning the G word).

Any chance your state allows open enrollment? In MN, as long as there is space available, you can send your kid to any public school you want. We are also doing some school shopping, and I can relate to your frustrations. We are going to try to find a house that is sort of centrally located near a few decent school options. Our DS9 is currently in a full-time GT program that ends in 5th grade. This district doesn't extend the program after that, but does provide other options for the kids who have been through the program (many honors programs in middle school). I would prefer more of a continuation of the sort of program DS is in, so we will be looking around. The fulltime GT program, self-contained or clusters in the classroom, is very important to us. There is a huge range of abilities even within the HG classroom -- i cannot imagine that a teacher in a regular classroom would have much time to spend differentiating for the kid who already gets it. Also, in a FT program, the pace of instruction can be sped up, which many GT kids need.

But if those types of programs are unavailable, the best thing in my opinion is a flexible principal and teachers who are willing to work with you. Do they allow subject or full-grade acceleration? Are there other kids with similar abilities that can be grouped so that your kiddo has at least one peer? (Many schools deal out all the top kids to different classrooms.)

I hope Option C turns out to be better. Destination Imagination is a wonderful program, and the other afterschool programs sound great, if nothing else!

Seems like a good idea to avoid the school where they let teachers work while intoxicated.

Parents can also "buy" high group test scores and probably more easily than high IQ scores in that the tests aren't as tightly controlled and there are ways to get ahold of them and prep. While I, too, like the spiel you mention on the website about gifted not being about high achievement, I would be very leery of a district that thought the best and only way to identify giftedness, especially in 2e and underachieving kids, was to use the CogAT. I've seen way too many high achieving but not gifted kids get high scores on that test to believe that a program populated with kids identified that way would meet the needs of a HG+ kid.

My dds (ages 12.5 and 14.5) will be going into 8th and 11th grade in the fall and the best we've done with public school in terms of meeting needs has been:

1) grade skip for the less 2e one
2) choicing to schools and a district with a higher percentage of high achieving and above average kids

In regard to #2, the benefit was that there were enough privileged kids and pushy parents that programs existed more readily for subject acceleration, pull out replacement "GT" math and reading classes that met daily in late elementary school, etc. These programs and classes weren't filled with gifted kids anymore than the GT options were at our less affluent assigned schools, but they met more frequently and had higher expectations none the less because the parents were more educated and had more money to throw at getting their kids up to the level to perform in classes with higher expectations.

It hasn't been perfect and we've definitively had some issues with getting our more 2e kiddo's needs met (they recognize the gifted aspect b/c she is performing at the level of the other kids in the subject accelerated and honors classes, but they don't see the LDs as much since she isn't below grade level or failing and that's apparently the only time they notice LDs).

No kidding.

Where TF do they think gifted first graders come from? The "Cloud"?

This is classic, "You can't be gifted because you haven't shown us, X-Y-Z yet." syndrome!

Can you just stay where you are and continue with the private school?

Val, we can stay and our son will go there for the 2013/2014 school year.

We are not sure on the 2014/2015 school year. DS's OT who knows him well says we should look into enrolling him elsewhere. She works at this school and has a son that has been there several years. DS had a bad preschool experience at this school and apparently the teacher he would have for 1-8 is very rigid like the preschool teacher.

Another reason we are house hunting is the house we are in is just not good for my joints. It is three stories with bedrooms on the top, kitchen, laundry, dining and small living room in the middle and large room and office on the bottom. I am up and down stairs all day and it hurts. I am one of the ones on here with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome which is genetic. DS5 is undiagnosed at this point (will see a geneticist in 2 months) but even he complains that the stairs hurt his legs.

Anyway, the search continues.

There is no such thing as an informed person who believes this.

Sounds fun. I guess they just magically become gifted after kindergarten?

Honestly from here any gifted programming that doesn't cost a fortune and take place somewhere else seems quite good. A two hour pull-out enrichment would be better than nothing.

The problem with great high school courses is if things at school are bad you don't make it that far in good enough condition to qualify.

Why is his current school not an option - cost? Does it not cover all the elementary years? It does sound like a good school.

I worry about elementary at the current school because of the 2e issues. It is likely that DS will need some accommodations as he progresses. It is my understanding that the staff in the upper elementary class tends to be rigid and unaccomodating.

This is something that happens now in the K class and would be even more likely in upper elementary given the increased workload:

Suppose DS spends the morning working on a map coloring project. He has to stop a lot because his hand hurts and to sharpen the map pencils because he keeps breaking the tips. By the time he is done, his hand is really hurting. Next up on the assignment sheet is writing his spelling words three times each. At this point many kids have finished their assignments and are getting out free time activities like Legos and games. DS can't join in until his words are written. Correctly. This means if he did the "g" reversed on every word, he will need to correct it. If his correction involves putting it facing the right way but on the wrong line, he will have to correct it. After all this, there is no time for him to have free time. What he doesn't finish gets sent home as homework.

I understand that this could happen at any school. Hopefully things at this school will improve in this area after his evaluations. As it stands, "time" is the only accommodation available to any student. They see it as fair because he gets as much time as he needs.

It doesn't help that his self advocacy is very "5 year old style". He doesn't exactly say, "Excuse me, my suspected genetic disorder and learning disability are making it difficult to complete this assignment in a timely manner right now. Could I please finish it orally for now and maybe complete the written portion later when I have rested my hand?"

Instead he whines that he doesn't like writing, goes to the bathroom half a dozen times to put his hand in cold water and might stop to "watch/comment" on what the free timers are doing.

Frustrating! We are in a similar situation. I am still amazed at how the viewpoints of GT educators can vary so widely, especially when they claim to focus on their needs on their website.
Good luck! I second what St. Pauli Girl said...can you try to open enroll?