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DS 7.5 has dyslexia/dysgraphia/dyspraxia with giftedness. We pulled out of public school at the beginning of first grade once I saw the writing on the wall with the "gifted" program there and lack of accommodations and remediation problems.

We've been homeschooling and remediating with good improvement.

There is a local public elementary school that is starting a full grade gifted program and I've applied for DS. IDK how it would go but I've heard accommodating in a full day gifted program is easier than a typical elementary school with just gifted pull out.

Any experiences with public gifted full programs and disability accommodations? I have no problem continuing remediation (as long as DS has the energy for it) at home but I worry about his ability to be accommodated for significant dysgraphia. The dyslexia has improved greatly but still is well below his IQ. It seems that dyslexic accommodations would be easier to manage as audiobooks and ipads are so universal. Theoretically dysgraphia accommodations are around but dictation doesn't work well yet on ipads with DS, and currently I scribe everything we do except handwriting.

Any thoughts appreciated smile
That's true. I am going to try to schedule a meeting with the school to see how familiar they are with accommodations already. Unfortunately, I think most schools are trial and error as a lot of admin, teachers, or whomever can say the right things but then there's no real help available when students attend.
Originally Posted by Displaced
I worry about his ability to be accommodated for significant dysgraphia. The dyslexia has improved greatly but still is well below his IQ. It seems that dyslexic accommodations would be easier to manage as audiobooks and ipads are so universal. Theoretically dysgraphia accommodations are around but dictation doesn't work well yet on ipads with DS, and currently I scribe everything we do except handwriting.

It's not too early to teach him to touch-type and see if that makes it easier for him to do his work independently. It improves things for some dysgraphics, doesn't for others-- but worth a shot. And it is a relatively easy accommodation to provide.
Dictation can be tough with kid voices (though I do find my daughter's getting a lot better IF she has the patience to practice - and will actually listen to advice about how she needs to to speak if she wants her words recognized - smile ). We've found word prediction a big help at age 7-8, when voice recognition was too frustrating. And it's easier to use in a classroom full of other people.

In your meeting, it might be helpful to ask them what they would suggest as alternative ways to demonstrate his knowledge - and to what extent and how often they would expect to let him use them.

There are several threads which discuss all sorts of potential dysgraphia accommodations in detail; if you have trouble finding them in a search, I'm sure we can help track them down. Good luck!
Originally Posted by DeeDee
Originally Posted by Displaced
I worry about his ability to be accommodated for significant dysgraphia. The dyslexia has improved greatly but still is well below his IQ. It seems that dyslexic accommodations would be easier to manage as audiobooks and ipads are so universal. Theoretically dysgraphia accommodations are around but dictation doesn't work well yet on ipads with DS, and currently I scribe everything we do except handwriting.

It's not too early to teach him to touch-type and see if that makes it easier for him to do his work independently. It improves things for some dysgraphics, doesn't for others-- but worth a shot. And it is a relatively easy accommodation to provide.

Thanks. It's become a high priority to teach typing now. I tried some last year but the programs were not great for DS. Now there are more options, ironically because the dyslexia is better. And I'm giving him more free reign with the ipad to use the keyboard so he's getting a little more used to where the letters are.
Originally Posted by Platypus101
Dictation can be tough with kid voices (though I do find my daughter's getting a lot better IF she has the patience to practice - and will actually listen to advice about how she needs to to speak if she wants her words recognized - smile ). We've found word prediction a big help at age 7-8, when voice recognition was too frustrating. And it's easier to use in a classroom full of other people.

In your meeting, it might be helpful to ask them what they would suggest as alternative ways to demonstrate his knowledge - and to what extent and how often they would expect to let him use them.

There are several threads which discuss all sorts of potential dysgraphia accommodations in detail; if you have trouble finding them in a search, I'm sure we can help track them down. Good luck!

Thanks! It will probably be necessary to do word recognition in a quiet setting. I'm concerned about longer output expectations as we're looking into a gifted program (not just pull out but whole day) and I'm worried that compared with a bunch of gifted kids, there may be a ton of writing expected.

I like the idea of asking them how they allow students to show their knowledge. That's a great idea. And I've searched the forums for dysgraphia recommendations but for some reason can only search back a year. I will continue trying but if you know of some great threads or can recognize them that would be super awesome smile
Displaced, you can only search one year at a time, but you can search back more than one year. Tell it you want threads between 1 year old and 2 years old, or between 3 years old and 4 years old, or whatever.

Good luck!
Originally Posted by spaghetti
We don't have gifted schools here and my dysgraphic was always excluded from gifted programming in elementary, but I do have a severe dysgraphic here, 16 years old.

First thing you need is a 504 or an IEP for public education which requires some official paperwork. With that, you create a document that specifies what school will do and how he will manage. You might need to have him enrolled first if you didn't already get this when he was in school before.

We did dictation until I taught typing at 7. We worked every day for 10 minutes for 6 weeks. That got him up to about 15 words per minute which is not bad for the rate kids write in early elementary school. We got DS an alpha smart-- they are no longer made-- and he carried it around. The two biggest obstacles were: DS didn't want to appear different or answer questions from curious classmates. And Elementary teachers are much more focused on remediation vs accommodation so they didn't really buy in at first.

However, once they saw the huge difference, they generally bought in.

How it worked is that whenever DS was limited by inability to write, I had him dictate and I typed. I then handed it to him to read and tell me changes. That was an excellent habit that we lucked into! He proofread and edited his stuff from the get go.

By 4th grade, he was up to about 45 WPM and a functional typist-- I believe because we started so early.

And now, he's over 100 WPM.

What I learned: Some say not to teach home row. We did home row and it worked, but keep it in mind if home row isn't working for your DS. Hunt and peck and "figure out your own way" can work too.

Second: Writing needs to be taught with whatever your output is. Even waiting until 8 to output in typing in school required me to re-teach the writing process to DS. I suspect it's in the brain wiring.

So, for now, I'd teach typing, but don't expect it to be functional for a couple of years. You'll need another method for a while-- and it might just be to not have to write more than a word or sentence.

And don't forget maps and coloring and other "written" assignments when you ask for accommodations.

Thanks. If we go to this public school we would need at least a 504 for both the dyslexia and dysgraphia. I'm of the mindset that unless they have an OG reading specialist then I will need to do remediation myself. If they throw in addition remediation that is helpful, plus accommodate, I'd be thrilled.

You have motivated me to start again with typing with how fast you made progress. I've been putting it off since last year but I think it would be better to start immediately, as well as switch to cursive for a trial.

I realize that accommodations may just be on paper and in reality not carried out, so I'm not going to get my hopes up (and we're still awaiting acceptance to the school even). But I've been homeschooling for 18 months now. I feel I do remediation well but the giftedness is tricky for me to accommodate sometimes and I'm wondering if a gifted school would be better for the family.

It's a valid point to consider how DS would feel regarding differences. He's verbalized worry about his dyslexia and not reading like the other kids despite homeschooling for >1 year. If he is also concerned about writing and has problems again in school we would homeschool until he's older, has less "noticeable" differences, and more self-confidence.

We would definitely need all written output accommodated. I have DS do coloring, drawing, mazes, cutting, etc as therapy daily. He would probably need twice the amount of time as other kids to accomplish the same tasks for anything requiring his hands. Artwork, musical instruments, you name it (from the dyspraxia co-diagnosis).
Originally Posted by ElizabethN
Displaced, you can only search one year at a time, but you can search back more than one year. Tell it you want threads between 1 year old and 2 years old, or between 3 years old and 4 years old, or whatever.

Good luck!

Ooooooh! Now I know! cool
The built-in search engine often seems to have a hard time with multi-word searches. It's usually easier to google (go to "advanced" and limit the domain to "http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org").

Here's a couple of the more relevant threads I found searching "dysgraphia accommodations":

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....Dysgraphia_Interventions.html#Post168409
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....7636/Just_diagnosed_with_Dysgraphia.html
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....0682/School_Ipad_Apps_For_Dysgraphi.html
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....6455/Math_Accommodations_for_Writin.html
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....eschool_dysgraphia_advic.html#Post208976
Originally Posted by Displaced
You have motivated me to start again with typing with how fast you made progress. I've been putting it off since last year but I think it would be better to start immediately,

Displaced, sorry I missed this thread earlier in the week. You've received great advice already, and I agree 900% with everyone who's suggested getting your ds keyboarding right away. I'll throw in one thought re the typing - don't expect it to be lightning fast, and it doesn't *need* to be lightning fast. Typing right away takes away one of the huge challenges for dysgraphic kids - automaticity. Your ds won't be having to think about how to form the letter he's struggling to write, therefore he'll be able to think about other things such as punctuation etc. My dysgraphic ds also has dyspraxia, which impacts his ability to type quickly, but even though he's slow typing is an extremely useful and important accommodation for him.

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as well as switch to cursive for a trial.

I wouldn't recommend teaching cursive yet (jmo) - it is true that cursive is easier for some dysgraphics to use because it doesn't require lifting the pencil from the paper for each letter, and my ds did learn cursive and had legible cursive handwriting - while he was learning it. The gotcha though is that learning cursive doesn't take away the dysgraphia, it just might disguise it a little bit. The dysgraphic person is still going to lack automaticity of handwriting and still have very little working memory left over to think about grammar, punctuation, what thoughts to write etc. FWIW, my ds also *forgot* how to write in cursive over the course of a very short summer - so all the time invested in learning it was simply lost time. Even if he'd remembered how to write in cursive, it would not have been a functional way for him to show his knowledge.

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It's a valid point to consider how DS would feel regarding differences. He's verbalized worry about his dyslexia and not reading like the other kids despite homeschooling for >1 year. If he is also concerned about writing and has problems again in school we would homeschool until he's older, has less "noticeable" differences, and more self-confidence.

I also have a slightly different point of view here, too. He's going to still have differences when he's older. He's still going to know he's dysgraphic/dyslexic. If you can give him a school environment where he's receiving intellectual challenge - where he has a chance to really think about things that he's interested in, where he had great teachers, and where he has intellectual peers, then those are as equally important to consider as the fact that he might feel different due to his challenges. My ds *hated* feeling different because of his challenges when he was younger - and he still doesn't like feeling different even now that he's older. However - the things that helped *counter* those feelings were giving him the opportunity to learn at the rate he is capable of and giving him intellectual challenge. I realize you can do that at home, but your ds can and will be successful outside the home too - and whenever he moves from homeschool to b&m school, he'll most likely have a transition time of getting used to using accommodations in a setting where other students don't. Don't make the "when" to transition to b&m based on worries about the feeling of differences, make the decision based on what he's going to be going into that will benefit him. Hope that makes sense!

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I have DS do coloring, drawing, mazes, cutting, etc as therapy daily.

Is this therapy for fine motor muscle strength? I'm just curious. I don't intend to sound negative, but it's not going to take away the challenges of dysgraphia - which is all about developing automaticity. Most dysgraphics don't develop automaticity of handwriting. Coloring, drawing, etc don't address automaticity.

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He would probably need twice the amount of time as other kids to accomplish the same tasks for anything requiring his hands. Artwork, musical instruments, you name it (from the dyspraxia co-diagnosis).

I also wouldn't count on this until he's experienced it. My dyspraxis ds loves loves loves music, and has never needed extra time for anything related to musical instruments. He holds his hands in a very odd looking position to play piano and his fingers bend oddly when he hits the keys, but he's a great piano player. He also plays in the band and loves it. Music class is actually one place where he feels completely *typical* smile He's also very good at drawing. And art class is often filled with kids who are so not artistic that even nt kids take awhile to finish art projects.

I would, however, wonder if his dyslexia might impact him in music re reading music. It doesn't seem to impact my dyslexic dd, but my dd who had vision issues (convergence etc) had a difficult time learning to read music.

In general, re the non-core classes - my recommendation is to get the 504 or IEP or whatever you need for core classes in place, then add accommodations for other things as they are experienced and you have a good idea of what will be necessary.

Good luck!

polarbear

eta - forgot to mention something that was really useful for our ds - word prediction software, which means that after you type just a few letters you'll get a list of words to choose from that you can click on rather than continuing to type out the word. DS used Co:Writer for this on the laptop when he was in elementary school. There is built-in word prediction in iPads (which ds uses now) as well as word prediction apps. Not only his typing speed, but ds' spelling and overall output increased quite a bit using word prediction.
If your son is feeling concerned about being noticeably different, it may be worth trying to get a feeling for the school culture and the attitudes of the kids. We've found that in some schools, the kids are very open and tolerant of differences, in others not so much. In our old school, for example, the kids were very (very!) aware that DS was an odd duck; starting to bring a laptop to class didn't have add much to that oddity. But it wasn't a negative label, it was just an observation. Kids always know who is different. The question is, what do they do about it?

I'm not quite sure how you investigate this from the outside - maybe try to observe a class and some hallway/ recess time, or ask to talk to some kids who aren't quite, er, mainstream? Also ask about - and look for signs - that the school regularly provides a range of visible accommodations, such that the kids are used to seeing them. Around here, for example, any younger class will have a number of kids on wiggle cushions. Some classes have a box of headphones available for kids who want to block out distracting noise. The number of kids with laptops in older classes (grade 3+) is skyrocketing. These kinds of supports are so widely used and available for the asking that the kids don't give them - or anyone who uses them - much thought.

It's usually easier if kids get used to assistive technology sooner rather than later. At 7, classmates still have much more open and forgiving views of what falls in the boundaries of "normal". However, the kids only get more and more self-conscious and worried about what their peers are thinking from here on out. There are quite a few threads here trying to figure out what to do with older kids who are refusing to use assistive tech in middle school. So the sooner you can normalize it, the better. Ideally, by the time the child is starting to feel the major waves of peer pressure washing over him, he and his classmates have long forgotten to notice the laptop.
Displaced, another thing to mention - my ds started out using a laptop in elementary school, but he's older and was in elementary school before the iPad came out. He switched to an iPad in middle school and has never looked back - today iPads contain basically everything a dysgraphic needs for success in school with the exception of a few math utilities which you probably wouldn't even consider until your ds is much farther along in math - and by that time, they'll most likely be on the iPad too.

The reason I mention this is that the iPad, for my ds, felt so much less conspicuous and also is so much lighter that it's easy for a kid to carry around therefore much more portable from classroom to classroom or even just across one classroom.

Best wishes,

polarbear
And if an iPad is too expensive, ChromeBooks are relatively affordable, and provide access to many of the same AT functions through Google apps/extensions. Some of them are free, and many of them are already licensed by your school. For example, in our secondary school building (which has universal ChromeBook adoption), we've turned on Google Read&Write for every student, which allows text-to-speech, speech-to-text, and word prediction. Text-to-speech function of Read&Write is free inside GoogleDocs, and teachers can get the premium version free (unfortunately not homeschool teachers). There are others, too, if you poke around the Chrome extensions.
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