Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Dysgraphia Interventions

But my DS's Executive Functioning skills still really stink. My four year old's EF skills, on the other hand? Through the roof! To the point that the 4 year old 'helps' the 8 year old with EF. My DH said his EF skills sucked too but they also improved with puberty. DH's father said he had the exact same experience - crappy attention and exective functioning skills till puberty! Nowadays, my DH doesn't have the level of EF skills that I have (imo!:) ) but he's completely competent and fine. He does not look like an adult with un-medicated ADHD or anything. However, do not ask him to multi-task LOL. My hope is DS will improve with puberty. If not, I will seriously start trying out meds. (I mean how many years does it take for a kid to get in the habit of putting his folder in the in-basket? OMG we're gong on four years now and he still can't do it!) I figure till then we can do the scaffolding and supporting.

Can I say this? Polarbear... I love you :-)

This board has given us the confidence to let the writing struggles go with DD11. And, it has been the best decision for her. She tried so hard, for so long, and she made very little improvement. She has flourished since we stopped harping on what she *can't* do and chose, instead, to focus on her strengths. We bought her an iPad and Bluetooth keyboard for school this year. It is loaded with dysgraphia-appropriate apps. The PC in her classroom has Kurzweil and Ginger (an amazing editing program!). The teacher gives instructions and it is up to her to do her work however she chooses. When she types, she AMAZES people. She is beginning to like this, lol!

With DS5, we were able to obtain an early diagnosis of learning disabilities (likely dysgraphia and/or dyslexia, based on family history). We are hoping to get ahead of the game rather than play catch-up later on. We want him to learn to read and write using a method best suited for his learning needs. He will see OT for HWT (I dread this!!) and a private tutor for Orton-Gillingham and Lindamood tutoring. I am interested to see how early intervention works. He has an older sister and two cousins to compare with, all of whom received interventions at different ages. He seems likely to be the most impaired of the group but time will tell if we can help him more by helping him early.

FWIW, there is no right answer as to how far and how long to attempt remediation. In the end, it comes down to what is right for your child. It takes a lot of confidence to 'give up'. I, like Polar Bear, have lost a lot of sleep over our decision. But, DD has NEVER looked back. She is full of confidence and a straight A student.

Hear, hear!


Could we please have the app list?

DeeDee

DS7 is a diagnosed dysgraphic - largely thanks to polarbear pointing me in the right direction, so I heartily concur with the kudos! We tried everything short of flogging prior to the diagnosis (I'm kidding, of course): HWT, tutors, OT, endless homework with me hovering/exhorting. Finally, with the diagnosis, every one of the professionals involved said Stop. Just stop. So we did and this year he has an iPad with bluetooth keyboard as well as computers in class and the massive, crushing weight that was squashing all of us has finally lifted. It's still early days, but the relief (adults) and freedom (DS) that have come from the decision are priceless.

And I'd love the app list, too - finding good ones has been a challenge.

no it isn't disrespectful...My older son has Asperger's with hypotonia (not hypermobility) which can be typical for a child with Asperger's. His hands fatigued easily from the hypotonia (and still do but less so than before unless it is like a 45 minute writing test). He also had motor planning and motor memory problems from toddlerhood through about age 8 or 9 and gradually started growing out of those two problems. No, he doesn't have dysgraphia but he did have significant problems and challenges and tons of anxiety on top of all of that.

He did find HWT helpful and the verbal rehearsal of the steps of the strokes to make the letters was helpful "up like a helicoptor" "down the fireman's pole" etc. But I understand the fact that I don't know exactly the needs of dysgraphic students. I only knew that HWT was very helpful for my older son with all his issues and it is widely loved by many.

My younger son is another story. He can go through the HWT program 100 times for print and still can't get it to generalize to everyday usage. His handwriting is beyond typical 8 year old boy and is worst in the class/what are we going to do with him horrible. I taught him HWT cursive this summer and he did a real good job learning it but once again is having a hard time generalizing it. I have thought it is time for an OT eval for him because something is really up with his handwriting (but he doesn't have Asperger's or hypotonia or anything that his older brother has so I wonder what his problem could possibly be seeing as though he doesn't have any physical or neurological challenges to the naked eye and he just had a visual/motor integration test that showed smack dab average so that isn't the problem).

Hi,

I'm so grateful to see these topics lately about dysgraphia, developmental coordination disorder (Ds's diagnosis and also hypotonia), etc.

DS6 has had OT the last year and daily HWT, with a little improvement, but honestly not very much. When I look at his letters they are anything but smooth, each example is different from the next, there are just random movements in there. The school seems to think he has a learning disability style problem, ie that more practice or help would be good. Whereas I feel the opposite is true, that above a certain point practice is just damaging to his self esteem. So that's not going well.

A question along the lines of this thread is has anyone seen a physical therapist rather than an OT, for motor skills of the type that kids with dysgraphia or DCD have?

Do they ever do fine motor skills work? What tasks did they teach? The OT DS has seen is very focused on writing but now that DS has started school with PE class I am realizing he has had no work at all on sportsy type things and is further behind in those areas than I realized. Do PTs do things like learning to catch a ball, or is that exclusively a OT thing and we just happen to have a OT obsessed with handwriting?

Part of me feels like if we were seeing a PT rather than an OT perhaps that would help the school to get the point that there is real motor disability. I'm not sure how to convince them that actual accommodations are needed, since he's technically speaking at grade level on writing.

Here is the list of suggested apps we were given from various school/tech ed people. DD does not have all of them yet, but we are working our way through the list. Some are quite costly, so it would be great to get reviews if anyone has an opinion:

Pages
Dragon Dictation
Inspiration Maps
Evernote
VoiceDream Reader*
Read2Go*
iReadWrite
IWordq
Typ-O HD
Merrimac Webster Dictionary
Google Docs**
Drop Box**
Paper Desk
Jot Not Scanner
Type on PDF
iAnnotate PDF
Math/Graph paper

* these are to accommodate her dyslexia
** assist with sharing files with other programs/teacher

By far, she says iReadWrite is her absolute favourite! Dragon is not recognizing her speech easily and is too frustrating. She uses the iPad's text-to-speech function to help her edit work. She is still fiddling with the scanner and PDF apps, so we don't have a review of those yet. I'm most excited by Inspiration Maps, will let you know how that helps with the brainstorming process. I think this iPad is going to change the world 😊

Thanks MON, that's exactly the type of input I was hoping to hear -- from a PT no less. And very interesting about qualifying for adapted PE without having the educational delay part, I had not thought about it from that angle as usually what we are worrying about is the handwriting. His issues are not terrible and I hate to have some huge red tapey process going on if it can be worked out informally. Still it needs attention because he's already discouraged by PE. It sounds like an evaluation would be helpful to have in hand to go talk to the PE person and I think our insurance would cover that.

He is 6 years old, and in 1st grade. I have him practice his letters, but it seems like he just does it for the sake of doing it, so, if one looks at handwriting sheets (alone), I think one may think he is fine. I was also wondering how much practice is enough.

However, when he writes words like "spots" or "spoon" or "abort mission" or something on these lines, he has a hard time with the p's (mostly), but also occasionally with b's and d's and a lot of times with 9's. I will try to teach him to visualize in his mind, and hope that sticks. He is an awesome speller when he closes his eyes and visualizes the word, and then writes it, so I am hoping this method sticks. We have done air drawing, writing on sensory stuff, making it out of random objects etc.


How long does it take for kids to learn to type ?
I will look into some online typing programs, but when I tried bbc typing mat (or something like that), he seemed pretty challenged. It was his first typing session, and so I told him it would improve with time


Yes, same here. I don't get it -- he seems to compute rather large numbers in his head pretty well, yet seems to have issues with right/left. He also seems less co-ordinated when it comes to certain things (like catching a ball or hitting a ball). He also runs a bit slowly (than peers) -- he sometimes gets teased by the other kids, and feels horrible about that. He is very good at climbing, riding a bike, etc.


OK, I will act on this. I am wondering if I am over-thinking this, but there are too many issues (not just writing) that has me worried.

Polarbear, thanks so much. Your post has given me a lot of things to think about.

Has anyone tried a weighted pencil or pencil weight? I'm wondering if that would help.

In response to someone's question, DS has been in and out of private OT/PT for hypotonia and DCD. No one has ever mentioned dysgraphia but the OT won't diagnose anything. In both OT and PT they work on a lot of core strength building, saying that that upper body core strength will help with fine motor, although the OT also does some things specific to his hands, like writing or manipulating objects. At one point DS did metronome therapy. The OT and PT both make DS do wheelbarrow walking, sit-ups, crab-walking, but in PT they also do hopping, skipping, jumping, walking on a balance beam, some throwing and catching balls or other objects. OTs can work on throwing/catching as well and they seem to prefer having OTs work with anything that has to do with the hands.

OT's and PT's can evaluate and treat for fine/gross motor issues but can't give a diagnosis, like DCD (and probably dysgraphia as well). Even when we didn't have the neuropsych diagnosis they still treated him and just coded it as muscle weakness and lack of coordination. Since he scores under the 10th percentile, our med. insurance pays for therapy, but they only approve therapy for a certain length of time, like 6 months or 1 year.