OK so my son will be five in October. He can't go to Kindergarten till 2013. He is reading all of my kindergartener's books she brings home from school. He adds and does multiplication problems. Counts by twos and tens. The other day he also counted by threes...I can't imagine what Kindergarten is supposed to teach him in a year and a 1/2. So, I set about to get him skipped up. The public school is glad to test him into first grade in 2013. I put him in a preschool that assured me he could go to their kindergarten next year. I feel it would be best if he did Kindergarten next year so he can get used to going to school 5 days a week, get any learning I haven't already taught him etc. The preschool changed directors since I enrolled my son, however, and when I asked today about Kindergarten, she was very short with me. She said the cut off for our school is Sept. 30th. (days before my son's bday) But I'll let him have a trial run next year for say 6 weeks to see how he does. Boys are usually not ready for this socially and even if he can read he may be behind in math. I told her to ask him what 2 X 5 is, and she said she wouldn't "go around with you on this"...While she said she would let him try, and I feel he is more than capable, I'm worried she will be waiting for him to be a normal kid make a little fuss and kick him out. I feel like she expects him to act like a 3rd grader or something. I'm thinking I'll look into another school for next year, but help me out...am I being too pushy? Should I just bite the bullet and send him to yet another year of preschool where he will go over the ABC's and numbers 1-10 again?

I still fight this battle with myself. I was a teacher, and now work in the education field, so I was terribly cautious about not being "that" parent. I was actually the most adamant one in the family about not labeling DS (now 3 years, 10 months).

The conclusion I've come to is that as parents we have to think about what's best for our child. A teacher has to balance the needs of her class, and a school principal the entire school. Often times what is best for the large group is the structure of the traditional age-graded classroom without a lot of deviation.

We've recently switched preschools to a Montessori. While our son's traditional preschool was willing to work with us, even after he was accelerated to the next "grade" 4 months early, he was still being asked to do "letter of the day" type activities, when he is reading and doing math on a first grade level. We're only in week 1 of Montessori, but my fingers are crossed that it will be a good placement for him, at least for a little while!

Did you have any testing done? Near us we have the opportunity for a KTEA-II Brief Form and KBIT 2 for $120. I'm thinking of having it done just so if he scores as highly as we think he might, I can start conversations with the school district in the spring about either starting kindergarten early (less likely), skipping kindergarten all together (maybe slightly more likely), or at least having him switch classrooms for reading and math in kindergarten (the most likely). I feel some "hard data" will remove the emotion from the equation. Maybe it will work for you as well.

So no, you aren't being too pushy. You know what your son needs...now you just have to be the squeaky wheel until it happens.

Good luck!
Kathie

No, I don't think you're being too pushy. It sounds like you have a good handle on the issues, and if this school won't work with you, I'd look at others.

We don't have your issue, my DS6 is in the middle of the year with his birthday, but my brother and SIL have this issue with their DS6. Their school convinced them to put him into 4yo K instead of real K last year for social reasons, because he has an August birthday, even though they knew he was advanced academically (no testing though). They're regretting it now that he's in real K this year. He's a behavior problem because he's bored, he's being labeled as immature although I think he's actually more mature than the other kids and is acting out, and the year has been a bad fit. My brother and SIL are upset with the school for recommending they hold him back, upset with themselves for listening to the school, and the year has not been a good one. As Kathie K said, you know what your son needs, so keep looking or pushing till you get it.

my personal experience would be to find another preschool, or even a private school that will do kindergarden level work. twice now, my younger daughter has "aged out" of a daycare/preschool. Both times, when she became the oldest child, she would regress, behaviorally. Her bday is March, btw, so no where NEAR the cutoff. She would be 5 1/2 on the first day of kinder...this fall, when the preschool tuition was going up again, I thought "Maybe I can afford some private school and get her into kindergarden". She goes to a Christian school that is really wonderful...they have a "pre K" for kids who will meet the cutoff and a kinder (mix of 4 and 5yos) and they use the state kinder standards and she is meeting them beautifully. It will be up to us if we want to put her in kinder or let her test for first (we will be going for first) and her teacher says she will be ready.
It bothers me that, even though they are willing to "let him try", they are obviously waiting for him to mess up, so they can say I told you so. I wouldn't want my child in that environment.
fwiw-I also homeschool our older (8yo) DD now because her former school had labeled her a behavior problem and refused to do ANYTHING until her behavior improved. Said "bad" behavior was usually reading under the desk or not completing assignments. When if became apparent to me that they didn't really WANT to help her, we were OUT OF THERE, lol! Now I get mad when people tell me what MY kid HAS to do...I wouldn't leave my child in an atmosphere where they weren't respected.

I would answer the original question with an affirmative whenever the parent's concerns are divorced from reality, whether imagined or exaggerated. Since your concerns seem to come from a very solid foundation, any "pushing" you do is perfectly reasonable, because in this case the resistance is the irrational response. They call these kids "exceptional" for a reason... they are the exception to the rule, and need to be provided for differently.

In dealing with bureaucracies, it's very common for the person in charge to initially resist. But since the new director knows nothing about your son, it's her reaction that is irrational, not yours.

Give her credit for not dismissing the option out of hand, though. If your child is who you think he is, then he should show he can handle it in a six week trial.


That setup doesn't really benefit the group. It's set up to benefit the teacher.

My son was a late summer baby and met the age cutoff by 2 days, so he started school two days after turning five. He was already bored with the curriculum, so I can't imagine what he'd have been like had we had to wait another year or two.

We dealt with minor issues due to the age gap when he started high school (he was just so little physically), but we never dealt with social behaviors that were due to his being younger.

You're the mom ; you know your kid. I doubt you're being one of those moms.

I guess my question is this - do you have to sign a contract and pay for the whole year if your child is unhappy their - either because he is still bored even in the kindy classroom, or because the trial results in him being placed in the younger classroom.

My personal experience is that a trial is great because once 6 weeks have gone by you become the 'status quo' and people are reluctant to disturb the current status quo. So that natural human tendency that is an obstical now will work for your benifit in a short while.

If possible, go in and observe the grade you are trying to get him skipped into right now - it's entirely possible that you will be mortified by what you see in the 'recieving' grade. That will tell you something right then. There is no gaurentee that a single skip will be 'enough.'

((shrugs and more shrugs))
Grinity

It sounds like he'd be fine acadmemically in kindergarten. I wouldn't be so worried that the school admin will be out to get him, since from her perspective he nearly meets the cutoff, but there's simply a possibility that he won't behave properly since he's on the young side; she's being reasonable by offering the trial period. I would do my best to prepare him to fit into the classroom routine. Impress upon him that he must behave or he'll be out, and back to boring preschool. Find opportunities for him to be in classroom settings before then, if possible, perhaps with local classes of some sort.

Good points.

We told Mr W pretty much the same thing and he knows he is under the microscope at his new school.

Something else to consider is that its still 8 months away so you have lots of time.

The biggest thing is to work on independence stuff. I would visit the K class and observe to see what will be expected of him. I'd also talk to the teacher to get her take on what she expects and what some problem areas might be.

OK so, I have talked with another school that is actually closer to me. They are willing to admit him after an informal evaluation which I have no doubt he will blow them away. So now the big question is should I just go this other route rather than dealing with his current school and the director whom I believe may be waiting for him to mess up. We looked at the new school together. He seemed ok with it. Unfortunately we moved this year so this will be his 3rd school if we move him. I was really trying to avoid that. I wanted to keep him in the same school since he will definitely be changing yet again to public school for first grade. He seems ok with the move and knows it may happen so I'm leaning toward moving him, but I'm just disappointed that he will have to change schools so many times. I will keep him in his current school till the end of this year as he has friends and loves his teacher.

Also I found someone at a local university who will test him! Hooray!

My DS4 also has an October birthday. Very frustrating. I managed to convince the preschool of interest to give him a shot at doing PreK-4 instead of the 3's program (which he SHOULD have been doing) for the start of the school year last August. They had him tested for the PreK-4 and he of course passed with flying colors. That was the best thing I could have done because looking forward to THIS august, I went into the prospective schools telling them he has already DONE the PreK-4 program and here is his mid term test (scored 100/100). They let him do the Kindergarten test which he passed Now we are actually picking between schools that will let him into Kindergarten early.

Can you do this with the admissions there at the school? Ask them to have him take the Kindergarten readiness test and see for themselves?

Annie

He actually is in Pre-K 4 for that exact same reason!!! I don't get why the current school doesn't just look at how he's doing now which is great

Same situation then for you! Are they really going to make him do Pre-K 4 ALL OVER AGAIN??? That is crazy, esp. since he is so advanced. The children he is with now will move up so if he socially fits with them now why wouldn't he next year?

I would have him take the Kindergarten test and show them that they NEED to advance him. Period.

Well they did say they would let him "try it out"...I just think they are going to be waiting on him to have an off day and kick him back to PreK 4. I have found another school that will give him an informal evaluation and then let him go ahead and go to Kindergarten. So I will probably move him there since they seem to have a better attitude about it. The current school says they have moved kids up before who were academically ok, and it wasn't a good fit. Of course, if I say I believe he is a whole different kind of kid, they won't listen. They say, we are looking at the whole child. As if I'm not? Anyway, I think I'm going to move him to the other school. I just wish I had known before, and I would have put him there for PreK so we wouldn't be moving yet again.

At least they are giving it a shot! Things are so crazy rigid at my son's school.

We got trapped in the age deadline thing when our ds was pre-K also. Is there any chance you can find a preschool that doesn't have rigidly defined academic curriculums? Our kids all went to Montessori preschool and were able to choose their own work with individual overall guidance from their teachers to help them progress. It was very different from a traditional academic environment, but I felt like it gave my kids the opportunity to nurture their creativity and imaginations while giving them a sense of self-confidence in not having to sit in a group and be told what to do, which in turn kept them eager and excited about "school".

polarbear

We moved Mr W(4y0M) four times in two years.

The first two were bad for him the third was acceptable, and this one is a good fit. Each time we kept looking and looking. Each time its been a better fit for him than the one before. Now he is 1+ accelerated in a class working one grade ahead with mostly GT kids.

No place is perfect, but for us, if he talks about what he did that day, talks about stuff we did not teach him, does not want to leave when we arrive to pick him up, some of his classmates are as alert as he is, the teacher is bright and has high expectations, and the class is working at least one grade ahead, then its about as good as can be.


Montessori was a good fit for Mr W from 18 mos to 3y because the material was 2+ for him. But after than it was not a good fit for Mr W as he was working so far ahead. The teachers considered him at best a distraction when before he amazed them.

Wow, Austin, I can't believe mr. W is 4! My DS just turned 8. Crazy.

I like your description of how to gauge whether the school fit is ok. We use pretty much the same criteria. I am still pleasantly surprised when DS8 talks about stuff we didn't teach him. And my heart is touched when he talks fondly of his many friends. We haven't quite hit the point of DS not wanting to leave school, but he has wanted to do stuff with classmates after school, and he has great after school class options that he wants to do.

OK back to this. The resistance to bumping him up is so great I begin to doubt myself. I got my 4 year old a second grade homeschooling math book which he is acing and enjoying. Then I go to pick him up at school his teacher knows I'm thinking of skipping him to kindergarten next year because I've asked her how he's doing. She made a point to tell me she sees he is younger than the other kids because he doesn't want to move from one activity to the next or doesn't pay attention and has to be redirected when
following in line or in some class time, but academically he is doing great and he's not disruptive. I told her I thought that it was partly his personality that he wants to complete what he is thinking even if you are ready to move on. While I do think its something to work on, I don't think its a reason to hold him back academically...which he will be even a grade ahead. He reads wells and is doing the second grade math book....I mean how many normal kindergarteners will need to work on those thing with him? What do you think? She told me personality doesn't keep you from walking in line...I totally remember being this way myself in elementary school. What do you think?
I am certain he won't being going to this school for kindergarten regardless...

He does come home with things I didn't teach him occasionally though...I do like that. Its never reading or math but science thing like today he told me about the middle ear...

I'm crazy tired so forgive me if my post isn't highly coherent. I did want to say, though, that my dds are right on the other side of our K cut (one actually didn't make it in the district she's in but CO has weird rules where different districts have different cuts and we started her in a different district to get around that).

That aside, both of my girls' pre-K teachers told me to hold them out b/c they would be too young. We didn't for either one. Dd13 skipped a grade on top of starting as a younger kid and I can't imagine it having worked at all had we waited.

Re feeling bad about the repeated school changes, I had some of that as well but there are times when it can't be helped. We did three different elementaries (one of them a charter), homeschooled a little, and have done different middle schools for each of the two kids. They've both also attended school in two different districts. I never would have imagined changing schools this often but the reasons we changed were legit:

The first district's GT coordinator told me that HG kids didn't last in the ps system and I should homeschool, we had options in one school that we didn't another (subject acceleration, more GT programming, better peer group, etc.). My personal experience as a kid with constant school changes wasn't good, but my kids both seem to have been okay with it.

I don't think you are being to pushy. We are facing/faced a similar issue with DD. She is about to turn 5- March b-day, but is reading 8th grade level, 3rd grade math, etc... I tried to get accommodation from the school here. I managed to get her tested by them. I was trying to get at least early entrance to K this year although looking back, I think it is a blessing in disguise. They didn't take their own psy recommendation and insisted on PreK this year even though she was even socially miserable. We don't have any other options here. There is one preschool/elementary school and one middle/high school on the island. And the final nail in the coffin was when the gifted coordinator (someone with no experience with gifted kids, its her side job, she is the ESL teacher) said "Sometimes gifted kids just have to be miserable in the elementary years" I was shocked! So we are homeschooling and DD is thriving. She is also involved in Girl Scouts (Daisy) now with girl 1-2 years older than her and is doing great socially now. And she is in a homeschool art class with kids up to 16. She is finally coming in to her own. If we had other options in schooling I would have pushed more. I just couldn't imagine last year, and still can't imagine, what DD doing K this coming Sept. would look like. So I say trust your gut!

If personality doesn't keep you from walking in/toeing the line...

Sorry, THAT's more than a little dumb in the "things for a teacher to say" category.

-Mich

Do not doubt yourself. Most people who are educators in early childhood will think what you're planning is extreme. Also, transitioning is probably the top priority of what they teach in kindergarten. Not all kids go to preschool either, so your son will not be the only one with transition difficulties. I would respond to such concerns with "great, then he will have something to learn that year" (well, only in my head, the school might not like that...) Maybe something more like, "It will be great that since he already has a firm grasp on the academics, he will be able to spend more time focussing on transitions and handwriting, etc".

FWIW, my son's preK teacher also thought that my DS wasn't ready for kindergarten yet, but then again, she would be losing a paying customer if we had started kindergarten early. (To her credit, she was the first educator who told us that our kiddo would need acceleration at some point.) We did end up sending our Jan. bday kiddo to kindergarten with his agemates and then he skipped first. We didn't push for early entrance because the psychologist who tested our kiddo at age 4 said that he'd need many different accommodations in his school life, and we should let him play another year. (I was a stay-at-home mom at the time and preschool was only a couple hours 3x/week.) Also, we thought kindergarten would be good because our son refused to learn how to write, even though he was way ahead in math and reading.

If you haven't already, I'd make a list of the pros and cons of early entrance. I didn't go back and read the whole thread, so I can't remember if you've already had discussions with the school about the early entrance. Obviously, it's a big pro if the school is aware of your kid's needs and is willing to be flexible and if they have teachers who are great at differentiation. What are the GT options at the school you're considering? Does the school allow subject acceleration? Can you talk with the GT coordinator to make sure there are options for your kiddo even if the official program doesn't start until 3rd, etc...

ETA: changing schools. For us, it has been easier to change school situations when our kiddo is young, so he hadn't formed a lot of close friendships. (And for boys I think this lasts a little longer in many cases; it seems the girls make BFFs earlier.) Our son went to one local grade center for kindy, then skipped to 2nd at a different local grade center, then moved mid-year 2nd to a school 45 miles away for HG kids. So, 3 schools in 2 years. Since he had changes every year, it was the norm for him, so it wasn't so bad. It has been wonderful this year in 3rd to have him stay with the same group of kids, and he's been making a lot of friends. We are hopeful that this program will still work well for our son through 5th, when the program ends, but we know there's a possibility that we'll need to change schools if things don't work out. We also have always kept homeschooling in the back of our mind as an option, which makes life a lot less stressful, knowing that there is indeed a workable (though difficult for us) fallback option.