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Posted By: momma2many combating early start nay sayers - 01/21/10 06:59 PM
my recently turned 4 year old will be tested in 2 weeks for early entrance to k. we are excited about the possibility of him starting school in the fall at 4 1/2. we do not think this is too young, or that he is too young. he is currently reading at a first grade level....so our only hesitation is that even k will be too easy for him (our district is full day, they do one letter a week and do not teach reading until the VERY end.)

but people, including people in the gifted dept at our district, keep telling us that MANY parents are holding their kids back a year, the opposite of what we want to do, and that it may not be good for my 4 1/2 year old to be in a class of kids that are 6 turning 7. bug.since when is it ok to encourage parents to red shirt kids to help them excel in sports, but discourage parents from putting their child in a situation where they will actually grow and help them excel in academics?

how would you respond to those who say starting kids one year early is not good for them? (fwiw...our son misses the deadline to start school this fall by 3 months and he is big for his age.)
Posted By: WannaBeGTEduc Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/21/10 07:48 PM
I am currently dealing with this myself. I had DD4 tested, the psychologist recommended early entrance, and STILL every school I call says they rarely (if ever) make exceptions and I get a lecture about how important social and emotional growth is. I have an older DD as well who had social and behavioral issues partly because we were clueless about LOG and she was with her age mates. So I have argued that these kids are going to have social issues no matter what (I know from experience with DD9), and that they will be worse if we do not meet their needs academically. I am able to give them personal examples from DD9. I have gotten 2 private schools to agree to meet my DD, but they still may not accept her in K this fall (DD4 misses the cutoff by 25 days).

I feel your pain - I was just telling a friend that I don't understand why these strangers get to make such an important decision about my child!

In our city/state, public schools will not budge on the date cutoff for K, so our only option is private, and those are the schools telling me they likely won't make an exception. Perhaps your area's private schools would be more open to early entrance than your public schools are being? (if you can afford to consider private). OR are you saying that they are going to accept your DS, but are trying to talk you out of it? If the latter, just let it roll off and proceed to do what you think is best.

I wish I had better advice for you, but you can at least know that you aren't alone!
Posted By: momma2many Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/21/10 08:05 PM
the private schools in our area will not take him early. i think it is dumb bc he will be 5 THREE months after school starts if they allow him to go "early." it just doesn't seem THAT early. but whatever. the public school is saying they WILL take him early IF he qualifies.....but then they say even if he qualifies i should consider not starting him early, and possibly think about holding him out an additional year like all the other parents are doing so that my child will also be 6 turning 7 in k. lol. ridiculous.

i am trying to just let it go, let them test him, and go from there. but the comments BUG.
Posted By: BWBShari Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/21/10 08:39 PM
Welcome! Might as well get used to being "bugged". You'll run into this situation over and over. The same old argument regarding social and emotional growth blah, blah, blah... Truth is they don't know what to say when faced with the challenges presented by these kids.

School is going to be a very hard thing for YOU if you don't grow tough skin and learn to just let the flak roll off.
Posted By: KAR120C Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 01:26 AM
I think any time you're going off the "standard" route for any reason there will be fallout. Grade skipping? They've met someone who grade skipped and never recovered from the trauma. Homeschooling? They have a weird cousin who homeschooled and never learned to read. Taking the SAT young? or learning Latin? or paying for music lessons? or entering the science fair (for Pete's sake!)? They're pretty sure it's all the parents doing the work, living through their kids and/or hothousing.

Basically anytime you stick your neck out someone will take a whack at it. (And try being the grade skipping homeschooler whose DS won the science fair last year! LOL) So if it helps, keep in mind that there are plenty of people willing to complain about anything, with absolutely no correlation to the validity of the complaint. You could be perfectly average with no aspirations or interest in anything and someone would find something to complain about. So you might as well go ahead and do what's right for your kid. Some of them might be convinced by counter-examples, or explanations of the potential downsides to NOT making a change, but when you find one that just holds on to their position for dear life and won't listen to logic, it's not worth the effort to argue. (Still tempting though.... lol...)
Posted By: mnmom23 Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 02:28 AM
Hi and welcome! You have found the perfect place to share your frustrations and get support. This is a great bunch of people, many of whom have been in your exact position.

First, let me say that from your post it sounds like you know what is right for your son. You know your son better than anyone, including principals, teachers, neighbors, friends, even family. Don't let them make you doubt what you know to be true.

And be reassured that many of us here have had very successful experiences with our children getting early-K entrance, skipping K, subject accelerating, and grade skipping. We've personally done all of these and my kids are much better for it -- academically and socially. Our experiences at our school, for instance, were the first time they ever happened in our district, and with the success that they've seen with my DD particularly, they've now opened their minds a bit and have allowed other children to similarly be placed appropriately.

It's hard being the rabble-rouser, the innovator, the "pushy-parent." Especially because many of us here tend to be introverts. And you will always meet people who throw out their unsolicited opinions about the evils of grade advancement or even, God forbid, letting your boy go to school young-for-grade. You will have people not so much criticize your decision outright but more just make blanket statements which do not apply to you. Some relationships with friends and family will suffer.

You can try to convince these people they are wrong. You can say that the decision is right for your child. You can tell them about all the research. You can make a smart-alek comment. You can gloss over the intelligence of your child. You can say that your child should have been skipped three grades but you settled for just the one. You can moan about it later to your spouse. But in the end, you just have to do what you know is right and ignore everyone else.

Now, as for getting the schools to at least try early entrance, refer them to all of the research proving the success for well-screened kids (particularly A Nation Deceived) and have the school, if they need to, look into the Iowa Acceleration Scale which helps them make an objective decision.

And keep in mind, too, that schools have a lot of parents coming to them insisting that their children are brilliant so they are naturally skeptical. If you can prove to them that your child really is here at the tail end of the bell curve, that will go a long way. Good luck and know that you're not alone!
Posted By: MsFriz Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 02:35 AM
DS5 started private kindergarten this year at 4 1/2. He missed the public school cut off by nearly 5 months, so they thought I was crazy (literally laughed at me) when I asked about early enrollment. The public school counselor fed me a bunch of nonsense about socialization and suggested that if I enrolled DS early he would wind up depressed in junior high!

Fortunately, we live near a small private school for gifted kids with a cut off at the end of the year, so I was able to simply walk away from the public school without having to get into it with them. It's just as well, because the private school has been a wonderful success, and I can't imagine DS spending this year anywhere else.

At this point, having DS in kindergarten is so normal to us (and so clearly right for him) that it's easy to forget this was an "early" enrollment by public school standards. But then every once in a while DS will get together with his friends from preschool (who are all still in preschool) and we're reminded how different our situation is. One family has been weird about it, but for the most part, it's been an amazingly easy transition.

Hopefully, if you can just make it through all the red tape and, like Dottie said, smile politely when the school administration tries to tell you you're a bad parent, you'll eventually get to the place where your son's enrollment will seem so normal to all involved that you and the school will both forget it was ever a big deal.
Posted By: mnmom23 Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 02:55 AM
One other thought after the long novel I just wrote above: most of the negative comments I got were along the lines of "A grade skip/early entrance may not be a big deal NOW, but when they hit puberty/get to middle school/ get ready to go to college at just 16 . . . ." That makes it almost impossible to argue. And it implies that the other party clearly knows more than you do. Stand firm. I always just say that we're caring parents who are willing to cross those bridges when we come to them. Just a heads-up, though, so you can get prepared with your responses.
Posted By: Mommy2myEm Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 03:36 AM
DD11 started K early at 4 1/2 and she was 3 months younger than our cut off. Since this was suggested by her pre-k teacher, we just went along with it without further thought. When that wasn't enough though, I began to feel like a pest at the school, since they thought early entrance should be enough.

Many parents think they are helping you by volunteering negative information. My favorite answer has been "we are taking it year at a time". Most of the time this will end the comments and I quickly change the subject. It must be hard for other parents to understand what it is like to raise a gifted child. I would love to just send her to school and her age would predict the correct grade for her. She is now taking classes at 6th, 7th and 8th grade hopping all over the building as we try to find the right classes.

I think you should go with your gut as you know your child the best.

Jen
Posted By: delbows Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 03:46 AM
Each of my kids is slightly young for grade. DD15 skipped 2nd grade after being forced to repeat K following extremely successful completion of K at private pre-K school. DS skipped K altogether and entered 1st grade instead. That single accommodation proved too little for him also. He was offered additional skips, but we opted for subject acceleration at a more challenging middle/high school instead.

My 15 year old daughter is currently feeling the brunt of the grade skip regarding the dreaded situation of having to learn to drive a year later than her friends. Actually, it will be longer than a year due to the fact that she attends a private high school in a different state than our residence. She is extremely busy with extracurricular and schoolwork so she will probably have to wait until summer to begin commercial drivers� education and will then have to wait at least nine? months before she can take her driving test. Even given this terrible blow to her self-esteem (being facetious), she doesn�t regret for a second switching schools, then skipping 2nd grade. This driving situation is quite temporary as opposed to her academic and social success with slightly older peers.
Posted By: Wyldkat Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 03:46 AM
We got an interdistrict transfer to get Wolf into 1st instead of K this year. We tried for early enrollment in K and were told to homeschool it then move into first (which they then forgot saying... Sigh....). Wolf is doing wonderfully and can't imagine being in a K class and we can't imagine it either!

I've thought about and defended our decision a lot. Here is some of what I have come up with:

Socialization? That is EXACTLY what you are concerned about the next time the school brings it up, thank you very much, nice of you to mention it, I was just going to bring it up myself. Wolf does so much better with the 1st grade (1-2 year older) cub scouts he's with and the up to 6 year older Independent Study kids he works with. He'd be gong nuts stuck with ONLY kids his own age. The majority of them have no idea what he's talking about half the time and have no interest in multiplication or predation or knowing every detail about whatever the current passion in. Who says good socialization means children of the same chronological age? You are looking for a good social fit not just age wise, but brain wise. Same chronological age kids are easy enough to find outside of school.

Puberty? Kids hit puberty at different ages anyway. Not only that, but in outside classes your child will be around kids of varying ages so what does it have to do with the price of tea in China?

Getting to Middle School? Won't be an issue if we skip him now because he will grow up with the same kids he'll be going to middle school with. It will be a lot harder socially AND emotionally to do a grade skip later.

College at 16 (or 15, 14, 13...)? That's what community colleges and online college classes are great for. Community colleges often have high schoolers enrolled taking supplemental classes (at least around here). They have students ranging from high school age to grandparent age. What makes my kid so different? Also there are TONS of online classes where age is not a factor at all. The kid will be judged by their work and involvement even more so than in physical classes. Besides he might not even want to go straight to college anyway, what's wrong with taking some time off for real world experience?
Posted By: momma2many Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 03:48 AM
thanks so much everyone...i feel better. smile i loved the comment about how we will settle for one grade skip, when there really could have been more. i feel that way....kindergarten a year early will still not be enough of an accomodation for him. they will be learning the letter "a" and he will be in the back reading the teacher's manual. lol. he taught himself to read about a year ago....and i believe what we see now is really just the beginning. (i say this not only as a parent who knows her son, but also as a former teacher- with 5 years experience in kindergarten.)

i will work on my tough skin, broken record response, and then learn to smile and wave and take my success(should we get it).
Posted By: amazedmom Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 04:10 AM
Hang in there. I am already learning tha I need to have a really thick skin in order to raise a highly gifted child. DD is already reading some (between a end of K- mid 1st grade level) and according to placement tests is in 1st semseter 1st grade math, and she won't be 3 till March. Every school in our area refuses to even consider early entrence including the privae schools. So that leaves DD being 5.5 when she is supposed to start K, and here they do a letter a week to. DD would go insane now dealing with that, much less in 2 and a half years. I can't imagine how horrible it would be for her.

The socilization stuff unerves me, as dd actually gets along better and is more comfortable, and more herself when interacing with kids who are currently in K and 1st grade. When with groups of kids her age she gets very quite and introverted, which is not her at all, and simply watces puzzled. And then when she does go up and try to talk and play usually it ends up with one of the other kids in tears. Not because dd is mean, but because she tends to scare them. They are sill parellel playing and get quite frightened by her games she wants to play with them. DD gets very frusteraed and upset and says "I was just trying to play with them. Why won't they play with me?" It actually hurts me to watch.

Right now we are working on first grade math workbooks when DD wants. She asks, I never push, but somedays she will sit and do 10 pages in a sitting. I have already been hearing from others those responses that I am puhing her, hothousing etc. Shrug. I know I am not, I know my daughter, and others who spend a great deal of time with her see it as well, so I am trying, but it takes awhile for that skin to thicken. Hang in there.
Posted By: Cricket2 Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 04:14 AM
Good luck!

I didn't realize that dd#1 was unusually bright when she started K, but I saw no reason not to start her b/c she didn't seem not ready. She did make the cut-off, but by a matter of days. The then-principal at our neighborhood school also strongly encouraged me to hold her out a year. If I recall correctly, her words were, "the younger students invariably fail" followed by some doomsday speech about how I may not see how bad of a choice it was immediately, but she would fall further and further behind every year b/c she was so much younger.

Not only did she not fall further and further behind, she quickly rose to the top and skipped a grade. Now she's an 11 y/o 7th grader and doing great.

I've given up on the concept of convincing people who are set in their opinions of the wrongness of those opinions. I'm settling for doing my best to meet my individual children's needs and tuning out the rest of the chatter.

When will you get your answer as to whether they will let him start in the fall?
Posted By: Dandy Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 04:52 AM
After reading through all the wonderful response, I can't add too much... other than my perfunctory hat-tip to "A Nation Deceived."

If you haven't already done so, take some time to read through the report, "A Nation Deceived"
http://www.nationdeceived.org/

There's an executive summary to get your feet wet (http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Nation_Deceived/Executive_Summary.aspx), and then you can plow into the full report for all the gory details.

The executive summary is probably a better introduction for whatever administrator you're trying to persuade. They can always find their way to the complete report should they be so inclined.

This article might also be of use, because it addresses some of the concerns of NOT putting your child into an appropriately challenging environment:
What a Child Doesn't Learn
http://www.wku.edu/academy/?p=430

Our son skipped K, and started 1st @ age 4y11m. He just completed a second skip from 4th into 5th and is doing very well, both academically and socially. I can't begin to imagine what a pickle we'd be in had we started him out in K... or worse, followed the popular approach 'round these parts and red-shirted him.

Lastly, for a giggle or two (which will probably come in handy about now), be sure to check out Hoagie's "Ridiculous Things I Heard Today" (http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/ridiculous_things.htm)
You can compare the nutty & frustrating things you are hearing to what others have heard in their encounters with teachers, principals and others.
Posted By: JJsMom Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/22/10 08:17 PM
My response is always "if he was a freshman in high school, and he played basketball like Michael Jordan, would it be fair to him to play with the freshman or with the varsity?"

When sports are involved, it's ALWAYS a different response.

Of course, then they move on to maturity level, saying he wouldn't be mature enough at this age or that age which ALWAYS cracks me up because people who have NO idea how old DS is or what grade he is in almost always comment on his amazing maturity level - they automatically assume he's 7 or 8 (just short).
Posted By: Katelyn'sM om Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/23/10 04:56 AM
Thanks for this post gratified3. I have to admit I am one of the parents that has heard this over and over. It gets to the point that you just expect this, so when my 3 yr old is on the playground and shows no interest in playing with the other kids (all her age or younger), I think, yep, here we go. I'm not even considering that she is having fun playing her own game using her imagination which quite frankly is advanced and probably a little too much for the kids if she tried to bring them into the play. I know she is well liked at school and have noticed that the 1st graders adore her. Though I have not witnessed it, I suspect that the 1st graders involve her in a lot of their play time. One day while picking her up they ran over to her and hugged her saying her name and than asked me what class she was in. They were shocked to find out that she was only 3. I have also noticed that the same 1st graders don't show the same attention to the other younger kids. DD is a kid that has always gravitated to older kids so it isn't shocking that she seeks the 1st graders out, but it still shocks me how welcoming they are with her. I think your post re-enforces what I seem to overlook. Katelyn is not a 'normal' child but she isn't anti-social either. She is just creating her own path and I have to allow her the freedom to do this and not worry that she will never fit in.
Posted By: Kriston Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/23/10 09:51 PM
I agree 100% with gratified3. However, that's when there's no one here but us chickens...

I don't think that it's necessarily a bad strategy with the school to say something like what WannaBeGTEduc is suggesting here, especially if the school is playing the "not socially ready" card about behaviors that a skip might fix. I think we have to use the tools we have at hand to get our kids the school fit they need. If the school is trying to fight the social fight, then turning it back on them could be a smart strategy.

Side note: I think the social thing often has a lot to do with how "pop-culture-y" the HG+ child's interests are, especially in elementary school. The kid who is into the latest video game characters and Lego sets (or whatever) is probably going to have an easier time making friends than the kid whose passion is nuclear physics, especially if the Lego lover's personality is extroverted to begin with.
Posted By: Val Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/24/10 01:15 AM
Originally Posted by mnmom23
..most of the negative comments I got were along the lines of "A grade skip/early entrance may not be a big deal NOW, but when they hit puberty/get to middle school/ get ready to go to college at just 16 . . . ." That makes it almost impossible to argue.

I argue it this way: "We realize that DS9 probably won't be ready to move away to college when he's 16. Our plan is to give him a year or two to explore his options. He can take classes at one of the local community colleges to find out what he's most interested in. He can get a part-time job, do an internship, or a combination of these things. He can do something else that strikes his fancy, like improving his ice skating. We think of this as giving him a gift of time."

The only response I've ever, ever received to this statement is "Wow, that's such a cool idea." (Because it is! wink )

If it helps, I typically don't volunteer anything about my kids' (I have three) grade and subject accelerations. But if someone asks, I'm honest in a matter-of-fact way about it. This seems to help.

An interesting thing is that some people will open up and say things like, "You know, my daughter's Kindergarten teacher told me she reads her words very easily, and maybe she should try harder ones...."
Posted By: mnmom23 Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/24/10 01:44 PM
I read this this morning and it seems to confirm a trend that I'd seen with my nephews' friends:

"30.7 percent of 16-year-olds got their licenses in 2008, compared with 44.7 percent in 1988."

That seems like it would make this argument to a grade skip or early entrance a non-issue, right?
Posted By: mnmom23 Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/24/10 02:20 PM
I think that's a big part of it. Kids don't have as much time to devote to the hours they need to log. Also, I know of several kids that don't have the money for insurance so they haven't gotten their licenses. And I even know of one teen-age boy for whom driving makes him nervous, and he just figures that for now he has enough friends who drive that it doesn't inconvenience him. The article I read actually sites all the new technology as a reason for more kids driving later -- driving isn't the end-all and be-all of socializing that it used to be. In the end, though, I think that it just means that the 16th birthday isn't quite the driving milestone that it used to be and that can only be a good thing for grade advanced kids. smile
Posted By: Katelyn'sM om Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/24/10 06:47 PM
I've noticed that around here too. The parents talk about the big 16 and driving and a lot of the kids really don't want it. We live in a small to medium size city and I think it has gotten to the point that kids are nervous about driving in the traffic.

I'll never forget walking into a little store where the owner is a retired teacher. She asked how old my DD was (she wasn't even 2 yet) and wanted to know when her birthday was... she is an August baby. The woman quickly went into how I need to hold her back and trust her my daughter will thank me for it since all of her agemates will be able to do big milestones like driving before her. Than DD started talking because she was excited that the owner had a dog in the shop which means she was being her normal self. The woman's mouth dropped open and she couldn't believe DD was not even 2, yet she still couldn't get past her speech of holding her back. I just laughed and said chances are the child will need to be accelerated so I'm certainly not worried about her starting school being one of the youngest in her class.
Posted By: JJsMom Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/25/10 05:22 PM
Val - I like the response for going away to college. And good idea too. smile
Posted By: momma2many Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/25/10 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by Cricket2
Good luck!

When will you get your answer as to whether they will let him start in the fall?


they will test him in february...then decide if he needs further evaluation....then if he still is in the running we will meet with a team to discuss an iep. if we make it that far, they said most likely they would recommend he start a year early (this fall) as his primary accommodation. who knows how long that will take???


Posted By: momma2many Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/26/10 07:05 PM
dandy...thank you for all the links....they made for great reading!
Posted By: JJsMom Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/27/10 08:40 PM
My SIL is 36, and she still hasn't gotten her driver's license...
Posted By: no5no5 Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/27/10 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by JJsMom
My SIL is 36, and she still hasn't gotten her driver's license...

I didn't get mine until I was 18, since I failed driver's ed. blush There were no negative social repercussions. Instead of driving my friends around, they drove me. smile
Posted By: WannaBeGTEduc Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/28/10 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by gratified3
Originally Posted by WannaBeGTEduc
So I have argued that these kids are going to have social issues no matter what (I know from experience with DD9), and that they will be worse if we do not meet their needs academically. I am able to give them personal examples from DD9.

While I truly sympathize with the annoyance of struggling for early admission, I don't think the blanket statement that "these kids are going to have social issues no matter what" is fair. Your experience with DD9 may have lead you to that conclusion, but my experience with HG-PG kids has not shown any difficulty with social interaction. I even wish I hadn't heard this repeated so frequently leading into K because it terrified me that my kids would never have any friends. cry Thankfully, my kids were much better at finding friends than I'd been lead to expect.

I was defining "social issues" the way the teachers seem to, meaning things like respecting authority (ie being compliant and doing worksheets just because that is what that age/grade is doing). I do see your point, and I agree, but I was trying to speak their language. I get the impression they are giving us the "social issues" lecture not because they care so much about our kids but because they don't want to be held accountable if we are unhappy with social issues later, so my tactic was to let them know that I am fine with any social issues that go along with DD getting her needs met academically. I use DD9 as an example to show that her social issues have greatly decreased since her academic situation is improved. I do also stress that DD9 prefers hanging out with other kids like her or older kids and adults.

I'm sorry if my post upset you, but I'm glad you made the point about how social issues are not a prerequisite for giftedness.
Posted By: JJsMom Re: combating early start nay sayers - 01/29/10 09:06 PM
LOL Dottie!
Posted By: Roni Re: combating early start nay sayers - 02/06/10 10:07 PM
This is such a challenging issue, and I wish you well and hope for all kinds of success in whatever decisions you make for your son!

I may be a dissenting voice in the crowd, but I can speak from personal experience. I tested at at 12th-grade reading level when I was in the first grade, and my parents decided to move me ahead a grade. While this somewhat addressed my needs for new intellectual stimulation, it was a decidedly awkward experience for me, and remained so for the entirety of my youthful education.

I was intuitive enough to easily realize that while I had many intellectual advantages, I wasn't as emotionally mature and certainly wasn't as developmentally mature. This was difficult in the early years, as I was always one of the smallest girls in every class, wasn't as coordinated as my elder peers, and it took a while, probably three years, for me to adjust socially. Social status is such a valued commodity in public schools, and physical prowess is such a standard measure of valuable masculinity in boys, that I urge you to consider that aspect of the issue.

Such developmental delays became a real point of contention for me as adolescence loomed. It was so difficult - even as a girl, where daintiness and fragility can often be seen as attributes. I cannot imagine how emotionally frustrating it would be for a young boy to try and fit in where he is physiologically truly inferior, simply because he is a year to a year and a half younger than everyone in his social set.

I absolutely agree with the educational ideal of advancing our children according to their intellectual needs rather than age, but if MY child is the only child out of the bunch moving along that way in a public school system and social environment, I would hesitate before making such a decision.
Posted By: bbq797 Re: combating early start nay sayers - 02/07/10 12:59 AM
I appreciate your "dissenting voice" Roni! I am currently struggle with the same situation (wrote a post elsewhere on the forum). What you're saying is exactly what we're concerned about. We have a 4yr. old son who we are considering starting early (if we're even able to) in Sept., but are concerned about all the things you mentioned. Except that in his case he is big for his age, so I guess that would be in his favor. But everything else (coordination, maturity etc.) he is just a four yr. old boy; we're wondering how much this will change in the next 8 months. He also only misses the cut-off by 12 days. I'm curious how you feel about the need for intellectual stimulation. What if you're parents didn't send you ahead? We're concerned that if we don't meet his needs intellectually, that could lead to other issues...boredom, behavior problems etc.
Posted By: Roni Re: combating early start nay sayers - 02/07/10 01:54 AM
BBQ,

It's really a tough decision, and I'm sure it also depends on exactly how intellectually advanced he is. We can definitely see it coming with our son, too.

Again, I am only speaking from personal experience, but I should probably clarify a few things:

1. Though I found it difficult to be so different, I was not socially unsuccessful (homecoming court, student council, etc). If one judges from a standard of "A" grades and number of yearbook photos, I did just fine! However, because I was socially conscious, I did spend a lot of energy on working towards social goals. I was in an environment where my physical and emotional maturity put me at a disadvantage. This energy and creativity could have been spent intellectually.

2. I was so far above my peers in language and reading comp that there was really no answer for my parents' dilemma inside of the public school system where we lived. Homeschooling was not an option. Placing me up one grade did stop me from being as bored as I had been because I was experiencing more challenge in my areas of comparative weakness, and therein lies the dilemma: my academic weaknesses and social skills were strengthened, while my intellectual strengths grew only to the level of my personal investment outside of my school days.

I think it depends on your individual kiddo. If he loves interacting with kids his own age, if he's a very physical little boy whom you can see will very much enjoy competitive athletics, if he is quite bright but not so much so that remaining among his peers would become a great burden for him...well, then you really do have some challenging choices to make!

Tough choice after tough choice. Isn't that parenting in a nutshell?
Posted By: Roni Re: combating early start nay sayers - 02/07/10 01:57 AM
I absolutely agree, CFK, although I doubt that the ratio is quite 1:1. School districts have probably seen a lot of kids experience great frustration and failure because they weren't emotionally ready for such a challenging social jump, regardless of their test scores. For the kids for whom it does work (and I was definitely a success story, by all external standards), it is a fantastic solution and relief for both them and the families who support them.
Posted By: Austin Re: combating early start nay sayers - 02/07/10 03:10 AM
Originally Posted by Roni
I may be a dissenting voice in the crowd, but I can speak from personal experience. I tested at at 12th-grade reading level when I was in the first grade, and my parents decided to move me ahead a grade.

This was difficult in the early years, as I was always one of the smallest girls in every class, wasn't as coordinated as my elder peers, and it took a while, probably three years, for me to adjust socially.

but if MY child is the only child out of the bunch moving along that way in a public school system and social environment, I would hesitate before making such a decision.

Roni makes some very good points.

I've written elsewhere in this forum on my experiences. I was able to connect to other boys through sports. This made it a lot easier for me once they got old enough to carry a conversation - around age 12 or so.

Other parents on this forum have posted about their children making friends within a given social group as well. Theater and music sticks out as one environment.

Finding a social group or two that your kid fits into is seems to be a critical task for raising a G/T kid who is accelerated.

--

Today, Mr W went to two parties with his age peers and then hung out with some older boys. I was able to observe his behavior with all groups in the same day.

As a 24 mo old boy, he prefers and has the most fun with 3-5 year old boys. He hung out with them today and ignored the 2 year olds. The older boys are much more stronger and rougher than he is, but he just guts it out. (And he goes to bed at 6pm and sleeps 12 hours!!!!)

For Mr W to be socially balanced, he will need to interact with kids older than he is.














Posted By: Kriston Re: combating early start nay sayers - 02/07/10 03:32 AM
We have the same situation. DS8 has friends of many ages, but socially he fits best if kids 1-3 years older than he is are playing. We're homeschooling, so that makes this sort of fluidity easier to find and means that his age is really a non-issue. And he is big for his age. But I think there are plenty of GT kids for whom older kids are a better social fit than kids their own age.
Posted By: bbq797 Re: combating early start nay sayers - 02/07/10 05:19 AM
That's true too! I guess that's why we're really wrestling with this!
Posted By: Kriston Re: combating early start nay sayers - 02/07/10 06:31 PM
Well, keep in mind that almost nothing in education is irreversible. There are costs to every choice, of course, but kids are resiliant, and if something doesn't work, you can always regroup and try something else.

I think many of us parents are perfectionists in our own right--the apple and the tree being what they are, after all wink --and it can become paralyzing if we think we can/must find the "right" answer. Don't get overwhelmed with it. Besides, the "right" answer today possibly/probably won't work in a year or two anyway.

Oh, and if you haven't read this article, you must! It should be mandatory readiing for any parent making these big decisions about school: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/least-worst.htm It's a sanity-supporter! laugh
Posted By: Austin Re: combating early start nay sayers - 02/10/10 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by Kriston
Well, keep in mind that almost nothing in education is irreversible. There are costs to every choice, of course, but kids are resiliant, and if something doesn't work, you can always regroup and try something else.

I think many of us parents are perfectionists in our own right--the apple and the tree being what they are, after all wink --and it can become paralyzing if we think we can/must find the "right" answer. Don't get overwhelmed with it. Besides, the "right" answer today possibly/probably won't work in a year or two anyway.

Oh, and if you haven't read this article, you must! It should be mandatory readiing for any parent making these big decisions about school: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/least-worst.htm It's a sanity-supporter! laugh

Thanks Kriston. This point of yours DW and I have really taken to heart. IMHO this is the best take-away from this forum.



Posted By: Kriston Re: combating early start nay sayers - 02/10/10 09:58 PM
Happy to help. Reminding myself of this has kept me (more or less) sane when I started feeling pressured. Deep breaths, do your best, and don't get overwhelmed.

If your child/ren feel/s seen, loved and supported, it will all work out.
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