Hello

Im a mom of two very young girls. 2.5y and 14m. I am very new to the "gifted" term. I was searching for help to better understand my oldest daughter's needs when I stumbled upon information on "gifted" children. There is no doubt shes advanced in certain areas, but until recently I hadn't considered intelligence as a factor. Kids develop at different rates, some kids walk early, mine talked early. I didnt put much thought into it and figured as her peers learned to talk things would even out and she would be back on the same page as her age group. So far that doesn't seem to be happening.

My question is about testing which I have seen mentioned often when reading. Is that something important? Is it important to know whether a child falls within the gifted range and where they fall? We homeschool so she doesn't need documentation for special cirriculum at school. I can choose her cirriculum at whatever level she needs. There is no NEED for a label for her, unless knowing allows me more resources to better understand her/teach her? If testing is important for a child who may be gifted how did you determine your child might be gifted?

A little about her advancements
*Within a few weeks of birth we noticed she studied faces. She only studied new faces, not of people she recognized/remembered

*By 2m my mom pointed out that she followed conversations and seemed to be studing the lips of each person as they talked (Honestly at the time I didnt believe her. I did notice she watched lips but I didn't think there was any way it could be significant at that age)

*Around 4m she could identify people by name. When asked "where is so and so" She would turn her head to look directly at the named person (or dog)

* she used basic sign language around 6 months to say "hungry", "more" and "all done" (Im not really sure if this is advanced or not?)

*Began speaking in two word phrases at 10m (She had some words before that but I dont remember what/when because I let family members convince me it was probably coinidence that her babble started sounding like words)

*She was speaking in complete thoughts by 15m and complete scentences around 18m. Currently at 2.5 she can carry a converstaion with adults, tell stories, describe events with details. She very rarely uses incorrect grammar and she tends to use more advanced adjectives like "wonderful", "terrible", "humongous"


Most of her advancements have been verbal, but I realized recently, when searching for our homeschool preschool for fall, that shes beyond most of it. She knew colors, shapes, animals and their sounds prior to turning two and at 2.5 she can identify all of the alphabet and tell you which is capital/lowercase as well as most of the letter sounds. Count objects to 10, recognize written numbers (1-10) and is beginning to write some letters. Im not sure if knowing preschool knowledge early is unsual? Dont many kids enter preschool already knowing some of these things? She also picks up random facts (most of the time Im not even sure where shes learned it), she knows about dinosaurs/fossils, planets, stars, and telescopes.But again Im not entirely sure if this is significant. Maybe shes cognitively on a different level than her peers, but maybe she just has different interests than other kids. She knows facts about those subjects simply because they interest her.

Thanks for reading if youve made it this far! That got much longer than I had anticipated.

hi there, and welcome!

the perfect grammar in one so little is freaky, isn't it? my DD is now 8, but that was one of her things, too.

you'll get a ton of great advice on how advanced is gifted (not my area!) but what stood out for me was the testing/homeschooling.

we decided we'd only test when DD needed it for a particular reason - like a school program or access to services. she did one (horrible) year of traditional school for Pre-K, and then we had to pull her out in favour of homeschooling - the school environment was so toxic for her.

at that point we did informal placement testing just to see where to start, and (like you!) were amazed at how far up we'd have to go. that approach - just going where she needs to be - has been working extremely well. it's a challenge to keep up with her, and i'm constantly on the lookout for ways to deepen her understanding vs. accelerate more, so aside from Math, we're taking all sorts of interesting detours rather than following a set curriculum (though i do, as her teacher, have an eye on that as well so i know where she's sitting.)

... all that to say that to test or not test totally depends on what your goals are, i think!

DG

Welcome!

I would agree that testing is highly contingent on your needs. If it will allow her greater access to services or opportunities that might be important to her or your family, then it can be very helpful. Or if you are questioning a 2e (gifted/learning disabled) situation. Otherwise, especially in a homeschooling setting, it's just icing.

FWIW, I conduct assessments of this kind professionally, yet have not had any of our children assessed. We haven't needed it so far.

If you do decide you want testing just for your own interest and guidance, (i.e., not because of some specific, urgent need) scores are usually more stable after about age 8 or 9.

Thank you! Im happy to hear from another homeschool momma! We are brand new to homeschool as well. I was not homeschooled and honestly never would have even considered it if not for my homeschooled husband. I ended up creating my own cirriculum for her this year because nothing matched her well, but mostly I feel like we are justing winging it lol.

What sort of informal assesment did you do?

We homeschool, too, and have used curriculum-based placement tests (e.g., the placement tests for Singapore Math Primary Math, All About Reading/All About Spelling), state curriculum frameworks (google your state education standards, and it will give you some idea of what your state expects students at each grade level to have mastered; you can use it as a kind of checklist, if you feel comfortable interpreting education lingo), and, well, my clinical experience.

But for little ones, it was mainly child-led. Up until you need more specific content/coursework for a high school transcript/college entry, I view the only real subjects as literacy (including reading & writing accurately and fluently) and mathematics. And writing depends on individual fine-motor development. All other science, social studies, visual, musical, and kinesthetic art topics are absorbed from experiences, reading, and interest-led special activities. For very young ones, such as yours, I would be in no hurry to do written or formal work, unless they ask for it. They will learn a great deal from playing, doing household activities with you, and conversing with you about daily life experiences. And you can do a lot of math orally, as it arises in the course of living, before they have the fine motor skills to calculate on paper.

ha, yes - we're homeschooling strictly out of necessity - never in a MILLION years would i have thought i'd be doing this! the need for a triple-grade skip right off the top really pushed us in that direction.

we did our assessment in a couple of ways - our region has by-grade curriculum expectations posted online, so it was easy to check DD's performance against the standards.

reading level was easy, because though she was late to start for a kid like her at 5 (the psychologist determined she had been actively preventing herself from learning to read,) she went from zero words to reading chapter books aloud in a matter of weeks. i've kept an eye on her mastery through the Lexile level, but mainly we just let her read whatever she wants for pleasure, and i now can give her (appropriate) non-fiction materials for school that are essentially meant for adults.

for math, we used Mathletics as an assessment tool - they have a great online program which (though not a standalone curriculum) is really amazing for practice problems and getting a sense of where the gaps might be.

for stuff like spelling, i just got grade-level lists online (granted, like everything else, these vary) - and verbally asked her to try writing down how she would spell the words.

and this is where i got really lucky - an experienced grade-school teacher who had seen hundreds of kids volunteered to take a look at DD's work for us after we got talking at DD's dance studio one day. she'd noticed how different DD was than other kids (she's now accelerated 3+ years in dance, too) and was very interested in hearing more about her. we invited her over and even though by then we pretty much knew what we were getting into, it was such a great confirmation. it's rare to find a teacher who believes in acceleration these days, particularly in our neck of the woods where the watchwords are "in-grade enrichment" - which essentially means *more*, not *different*, or *faster*.

i often feel like i'm winging it, too! the nice thing is when they're young you have lots of time - especially given the pace these kids learn! without an external person measuring everything, it can feel a little scary, but the validation comes when you see them apply the skills they've learned - it's such a relief!

Aeh- Thanks for the welcome and thanks for your information on testing. Sounds like we dont have any needs for testing. 2e is also new to me, so my knowledge is limited, but I dont think we have any 2e concerns.

Behavior is what sent me looking for advice on advanced toddlers but I dont think what we are struggling with falls into 2e. Our biggest behavior difficulty is the way she speaks to people. She comes often comes off incedibly rude and disrespectful. She corrects everyone even adults (she is not always correct when shes correcting!) Shes very bossy to kids her own age, either telling them what they are doing wrong as far as rules, or telling them the "correct" way to play with a toy (correct as in how SHE thinks it should be). She has what I call "verbal tantrums" she lashes out with words in an attempt to hurt the feelings of others, mainly me when shes being reprimanded for a behavior. Her outburts and disrespect towards me are the worst of it and it is on the verge of getting out of hand and my current approach obviously isn't working. She is much to young to be speaking like a teenager. She recently started telling me "oh my gosh mom stop telling me that!" As if to say she already knows the rule shes currently breaking I dont need to tell her.

My husband thinks at times I am much to hard on her for being disrespectful. He said that just because she speaks like a 4 year old doesn't mean she IS a 4 year old. He may be right but that leaves me feeling completely lost on what expectations to have for her. I know she understands the words she uses, she understands what unkind words are and what being rude means, because she is quick to point out the same behavior in others.

Then there are times that I have realized some of her intense frustration with me is because Im not always aware of how much she can comprehend. I haven't always validated her feelings because I didn't realize she HAD feelings on certain subjects. I feel that some of our struggles could be avoided if I could better understand when she needs me to treat her more on par with her cognitive abilities and when she needs me to remember shes still just a toddler. This is the point where I went searching for ways to understand her better.

FYI:

These are examples of state frameworks:

California: http://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/cr/cf/allfwks.asp

New York: https://www.engageny.org/ccss-library

Ontario: https://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/elementary/

You can look through them by grade or by content area.

Great information! I do have a formal plan for homeschooling come fall but it does not involve worksheets or sitting. Its really more for me to be sure Im challenging her in different ways. I dont plan on doing more than a few activities (less or more based on her choosing) 3 days a week. Mainly I chose things that involve exploring/discovering. Sensory experiences, out of the norm art activities, science projects (like shaving cream rain or seeing how pinecones open and close in different temps) and then exploring whatever subjects she shows particular interest in. Currently shes into "outer space" so we went to the library and picked some books, and I let her help on the computer to look up pictures or facts. She is interested in writing and can write a few letters so that will obviously involve sitting and a few worksheets. As I said brand new to homeschooling so I am open to hearing if this sounds reasonable? I feel she needs more changing stimulation than shes gotten thus far. She gets bored with toys easily and like most children when they get bored they start looking for things to get into haha.

Thanks for the links Aeh.

not to highjack this thread, but spaghetti - I am having this exact problem with my DD9. She is constantly rude, and I am constantly saying "is there a way you could say that that would make me actually want to help you?" and then she says it more politely.

And sibling rivalry is horrible in my house, a great deal of the time because she takes potshots at her older brother.. example: if he says he loves something, she will immediately chime in that it is the worst thing in the world.

I will have to go back and read the beginning of this thread - I need to do something about her behavior. For a long time I thought it was due to anxiety, but now I'm wondering how to change it because she won't survive long in the world this way…people will knock her down hard.

Ah OP's child is 2.5. I think I would attribute some of it to terrible twos…so allow for that. But don't let it get to where I am, with a 9 year old.

spaghetti- Did it start at 4 or you finally got past it at 4? I NEED to know someone else had a child come out of the womb this sassy and sucessfully turned it around. It is so hard some days. Having two girls I expected to deal with this attitude at some point, but not this early.I almost think regular two year old tantrums would be less frustrating ( I know, be careful what I wish for right?) Its hard not to wonder at times, if she started like this at 2 what are the teen years going to be like?!

LAF- Your sentence sums up my current delimma exactly. I am very much struggling to tow that line between remembering shes two, but, being terrified if I don't figure out how to start turning this around it could get really out of hand. Especially considering her advanced vocabularly....she may someday be able to easily out talk me.

I used to tell DD's daycare teachers that I was dropping off my sullen teenager, back when she was 3 or 4. She is a polite, well-behaved child now, and also very funny. (The other day, DH installed an LED in the toilet, so the bowl glows red when the lights are off and it senses someone moving in the bathroom. (Don't ask why.) He came in and announced that we had a glowing red toilet. DD12 looked at him in mock horror and asked, "What did you eat?")

I didn't reply before because I'm not sure what we did that made her turn around (if anything). It felt like we just waited it out.

Thanks for the reply Elizabeth. Good to know there is hope

KatieM, we actually had a child behavioural specialist come to the house to help us deal with DS6's behaviour when he was three and a half years old, and it was pretty much exactly for all the issues you describe. I think his behaviour was/is probably attributable to a number of factors: his intensity, his strong desire for everything to be "accurate" (because of his perfectionism, I guess), and the fact that he truly needed to understand "why" we were supposed to be the ones in control (the explanation that satisfied him was that as his parents, we would go to jail if we didn't do a proper job of keeping him safe and healthy). Also, apparently GC often experience a great deal of frustration because they have a deeper understanding of the world around them without necessarily having the emotional maturity to deal with it.

Of course, just because you understand where it's coming from doesn't mean that it's any easier! Anyway, she was basically a parenting coach and provided us really invaluable help. He's doing much better now, though we definitely still experience some tough periods...

OP - for what it's worth, my DS2 is almost as sassy as your DD. He's not as verbal...yet. He's learning ASL, English, and Spanish so he lags a bit right now. However, he comprehends pretty much everything we are saying and if we say "where is the star?" he'll look right at the star, smirk, then point to the square. *facepalm* He knows, but he thinks it's funnier to get it wrong on purpose. He does tell me "uh uh" and "not like that" then shoves kids/people to the side to teach them his (right) way. He's big into correcting and has a very black and white sense of what should/should not be. I understand how frustrating it can be. We are working with a developmental psychologist and doing some behavior modification with him. He's not very emotionally attuned, but we're working on it. It is SO hard to understand when to treat them on their cognitive level versus chronological age; it's even harder to explain it to others. I get told frequently that when I talk to DS about his feelings and why we do/don't do something people think I'm nuts - that he can't understand me. He does understand fully, but he's also not quite two so he has no impulse control or coping skills yet. Also to that end, when other parents see me get frustrated because of his behavior (fiercely independent) they feel the need to remind me that he's still only two. I'm right there with you, I don't know what I'd do if I had two kiddos, though. One is already a handful!

spaghetti, I think I will be re-reading your post above many times over the next while, as we struggle to deal with some unpleasant and increasingly entrenched habits in the way DD talks to people. Thank you for sharing - and please do feel free to add any more details of how you met this challenge. I think I could use as much advice as you have, especially since DD is 9. Her complete lack of response to any kind of extrinsic motivator has left us highly ineffective in this realm.

Spaghetti wow! Thank you for sharing! Funny about the potty training. I almost pushed my DD into potty training around 18m mark. She was showing signs she was ready. She was asking to sit on the potty, she had long since been able to ask for diaper changes and was increasingly aggitated with even a tiny tinkle in her diaper. I let her try, she was very interested until she figured out how it all worked and then stopped. I asked her ped about it at her 2yr check up because I KNOW she understands how it works and is capable she simply just chooses not too. He warned me she would do exactly what your daughter did at 2 if I pushed her. I put her back in diapers, she is a little over 2.5 now and finally showing interest again (on her own) and its going smoothly so far.

Omg I could have written the potty post. I too tried at 18 months. DD didn't train until 3.5 because she didn't want to do something that was my idea. I realized at 2.5 that I should back off. When she was 3.5 her 18 month old cousin trained herself. That embarrassed DD so she potty trained that weekend.