So my DS3 (almost 4) has been reading since he was about 2.5...at this point he can pretty much 'read' anything, aka, look at a word and be able to recognize it and speak it. Reading the words is easy (online test said somewhere around 4th grade, and preschool teacher also noted that he can pretty much read whatever you put in front of him.) BUT his reading comprehension is definitely not as high. My guess is that it's more around 1st or 2nd grade, and that is IF he is interested in doing the actual reading - which more often than not, he isn't. He is a math/science kid, through and through, and so, while he learned to read very early, it's really not his 'thing'. He does enjoy being read to, and sometimes I'll catch him reading through his books, but he is by no means voracious, or even close to it. I'm not convinced he quite realizes that reading by himself will unlock this amazing world to him (I admit, DH and I are avid readers and would love to see this cultivated in DS). But also, I don't want to push him - often we will just read to him, and gently nudge for him to read on his own (usually in lieu of nap, which is happening much too often for my liking!).

Anyway, this has become a bit of a ramble but I was wondering a couple of things,

1. does this seem normal, the ability to read but the comprehension not being as high as the word recognition? Again, I don't know how much of that has to do with his general disinterest in reading by himself, for the most part.

2. Any good ideas for encouraging more comprehension without pushing assessment tests on him or anything like that? We do non-fiction a lot, science books go over well, and DH and I will talk about the stories we read to him and ask questions about them...and he will go along with that for a while, though often after a few he sort of shuts down to questions ("I don't want to answer anymore" type thing.)

Thanks, and sorry for the long meandering post!

Our DS was/is like this.

Yes this is "normal". What you are describing is exactly what you should expect. There are certain kinds of things where an advanced kid can be more advanced (in years) than other things, even if they are the same percentile.

For example [made up numbers for illustration purposes] perhaps a 3 year old at the 99.9th percentile for reading ability, has the reading ability of a 50th percentile 9 year old, while a 3 year old at the 99.9th percentile for comprehension, has the comprehension of a 50th percentile 6 year old.

A 7 year old that understands maths like an average 14 year old, while rare, is going to be much more common than a 7 year old that understands Shakespearian poetry like an average 14 year old.

A typical kid will be at different percentiles for different endeavors, but even if they were at exactly the same percentile for everything, that same percentile would correspond to different levels of advancement (in years) for different endeavors.

In other words:

Asynchrony is normal.

1. Yes this seems normal. Learning to parse/read individual words, and learning to understand what is going on the story are two different things. My son could read almost any word at your son's age, but wasn't interested in chapter books till he was older. What he read voraciously at this age was non-fiction, books about dinosaurs, dragons, animals, bugs.

2. Read with him, I or my husband read to my kids every night till they were 11/12 usually reading books 2-3 years above their own reading level. Take him to museums. My son would walk around and read ALL the signs out loud and we would talk about them. Talk with him about everything around him. Look up answers to all his questions about the world around him. Let him explore the world around him. Encourage him to "write" his own stories with or without you. At this age my son would "draw" stories and an adults would take dictation. (His writing wasn't as fast as his imagination.) We loved to making this a game, and would often take turns progressing the story. Encourage him to play with other children. Watch a movie/tv show and talk about the story/plot, themes afterwards. Play games.. All of this will help your son understand the world around him and therefore be able to comprehend literature better.

Good Luck

P.S. I just re-read your post. Don't "quiz" him about the story/plot, try having a conversation with him about it. Relax and have fun with him.

His comprehension will catch up and is nothing to worry about, most likely. I would not quiz ghim unless it is a genuine conversation of interest.

He might just take a bit longer to get into reading. I think this kind of pattern is not uncommon here, especially for the very early readers. Sometimes hitting the "right" series book will hand them the key. Try lots of different books--anything that catches his eye. Even easy graphic novels.

Yes.


My DD was the oddball there-- her comprehension and reading level always seemed to be more or less in sync, but then again, she read relatively late (at least in this cohort), too-- she wasn't reading until she was four.

But yes, she was that unusual 7yo Shakespeare fan. It's very hard to accommodate-- and the kids are very very VERY rare.

It may be a temporary developmental thing-- as squishys notes. Because my DD wasn't reading high school level (and beyond) until she was nearly six, I have no idea whether she WOULD have been asynchronous if she'd been decoding at 2 or 3.

I also second the recommendation to just TALK about fiction with your child. Go beyond the summarizing and retelling to questions about WHY, and judgments about characters' actions or statements.

"How do you think that Little Bear is feeling right now?"
"Why do you think he is happy at this part of the story?"
"What do you think Jane is thinking about?"
"Do you think that was a good idea?"
"How would you solve this problem?"

At his age it doesn't matter whether he can read or comprehend anything. Just let him enjoy books and read to him without asking him questions. And my >99.9 percentile ds didn't read until he went to school at 5 and ds4 who has been able to recognise words for over a year shows no interest in learning to read either.

Thanks for the great responses, everyone. Your experiences and ideas are all great and helpful.

You know, I think sometimes I have moments where I forget I'm talking to/dealing with a 3 year old, because he so often doesn't act/perform/talk like a 3 year old, you know? and so maybe expect I too much or get frustrated etc. Luckily, I (or DH) usually realize and quickly go "oops!" while quietly slinking away into the naughty parent corner. In all seriousness though, I think sometimes we all just have to take a step back when it comes to kids like ours.

I will definitely try to take the tack of 'less questions', though it will take some fine-tuning on my part, to figure out the best ways to phrase and navigate a discussion without the quiz-like format. DS loves to draw, so having him draw parts of the story is a good idea.

In case this helps for future, there's a word for that: this stage of reading is commonly called decoding. Other stages of reading skill development include fluency and comprehension. These skills tend to develop over time, like walking before running. Vocabulary acquisition is important to developing comprehension.

Portia gave great tips and advice IMO.

Keeping a good quality children's dictionary handy while reading may be one more thing to try, if your child enjoys using it. This can encourage exploring meaning and context.

Strong decoding while fluency and comprehension are developing is not really an example of asynchrony. For thoughts on asynchrony, interested parents may wish to read the book Off the Charts: Asynchrony and the Gifted Child. (link- http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Resources_id_15952.aspx)

The relatively more rapid development of decoding skills as compared with comprehension skills may be reflected in the reading levels recommended for a student in school. Schools may stretch skills for decoding then take a step back and work on comprehension skills. This may take parents aback as they may wonder why their child regressed (in most cases the child did not regress in decoding skills which may continue to soar, but the child is now working to build foundational comprehension skills). Sometimes these stages are called "learning to read, and reading to learn".

Independent readers may be those who not only decode on their own, but also excel in fluency, vocabulary acquisition, and comprehension. Because students may acquire much vocabulary from the printed page their vocabulary acquisition may continue to benefit from reading aloud, hearing others read aloud, or using online pronunciation guides such as Forvo. For example, encountering the printed word colonel, a student may benefit from understating this word sounds like kernel.

The MAP test website (NWEA.org) offers a free downloadable RIT chart, sharing information which illustrates progressive reading skill development.

Once a child is in school, in some cases, such as F&P, a teacher may be able to share a comprehension rubric, the results of which are separate from the reading level letter score. Further conversation may lead to the Continuum of Literacy Learning, a book which the teacher may have received included in the professional framework, part of the benchmark assessment system.

Asynchrony

Interesting. DS3.11 also demonstrates strong decoding capability, without same level of comprehension. He's an early reader too (2.7y). Within the last few months he's picked out more emotionally complex reactions from characters in both books and movies. I'm sure his emotional maturation is related to development of comprehension. He's also started reading in his head. Don't know where this fits in but he seems tickled by it.
Good point Portia about asking for a description - I've been guilty of asking for same. I'm always surprised that a kid who can detail every sandwich eaten, shirt worn and activity and partnership from a day at school isn't able to consistently describe. Thanks for the reminder!
Thanks for the NWEA site reference and plus Indigo. I'm interested to check it out.

although I agree with all the comments about this development picture being normal (decoding first, higher comprehension levels later), I would suggest :
comic or manga type books, where there are pictures to go along with the words can be great for supporting comprehension, and upping the 'FUN!' quotient, especially if younger children's picture books are of less interest to your ds.
Vocab might not be 'super high' in these books, but story and entertainment can be pretty solid, and help to foster a true love of reading.

http://www.wired.com/geekmom/2012/03/geekmom-comic-book-corner-comic-books-for-kids/

My six year old is like this. He can decode words even if he has no idea what the words mean. So if I gave him a college textbook he could read it and make it sound somewhat fluent but would have no idea what he's reading.
The answer is to give books at a level where the kid understands what the words mean. If they don't have the vocabulary, they are not going to understand the book. Pictures help because then if the kid doesn't understand a word, they can sometimes figure it out from the picture. But if there are too many foreign words, they will quickly lose interest.
DS is not particularly strong in verbal ability (probably borderline "gifted" at best) so comprehension is third-fourth grade if he reads to himself. I don't go any higher than that even though he could technically read something that's a higher level.
He is more of a math/non-verbal kid than verbal. I think he uses his non-verbal "pattern recognition" skills to decode but they also have to be strong in verbal ability in order to comprehend well above their age.

It sounds as if your son is excellent at decoding, which is very important.

One of my sons started reading extremely early, and was an avid read of non-fiction books. He was not really interested in reading fiction until very recently (almost 7 years old.) I know that he comprehended the non-fiction, because he would often explain it to me in detail, but we didn't spend much time with fiction books as he and his brother really preferred to be read non-fiction, and he almost never would choose to read fiction by himself. Verbally he has always been very much ahead, so vocabulary is not an issue for him.

This became an issue in Kindergarten, where the focus is on learning to decode, then on comprehension of fiction books. My son had a lot of trouble showing comprehension of fiction books/stories in Kindergarten, so I had quite a few conversations with the teacher and reading teacher regarding comprehension vs decoding. Once I found out what they wanted him to do, it wasn't an issue, but it took a while for ME to understand exactly what they wanted him to do (and they weren't telling him, so that was the problem.)

I can tell you what our school says regarding the steps they like to see in comprehension.

Once the children could decode the words well, they wanted to hear "retelling" of the entire story, using character names and details. And they truly mean retelling the entire story in detail, page by page.

Only after the children are able to retell the entire story easily and consistently do they move on to having them summarize the beginning, the middle, and the end. The next step is starting to discuss the setting, the characters, the plot, and the reason the author wrote the story. Once they can do that, they want them to be able to answer the questions in writing. This is the step my boys are currently on in 1st grade.

My twins' reading comprehension as measured by the school is mid-second grade, but our school won't really let anyone move more than a year ahead, so I am not sure what it would actually be if they were being taught the skills they need to move up in DRA levels more quickly. At home one reads middle school level and higher non-fiction, and the other reads probably at a 3rd-4th grade level.

I will say that both of my twins (almost 7) have just recently become more avid readers. One I find reading when he is supposed to be taking a bath, brushing his teeth, in the car, etc. He has finally found some fiction books that he likes to read, so now he mixes that in with the non-fiction. The other is starting to become more interested in reading on his own as well, but still prefers non-fiction. They both have to read at school every day, and then for homework, so there is quite a bit of "official" reading.


Edited to add - When we were trying to get them more interested in reading fiction, we tried very hard to find books they liked, and ended up reading books like "Captain Underpants." (But they were five- definitely not recommending this for a 3 year old.) The fiction books they would tolerate were definitely not literary in nature, but it was a good way to get them interested in fiction.

Thank you so much for the comic book recommendation - I am looking on our library website to see what I can scrounge up for DS. I wish there were more books with some kind of mathematical bent, because he definitely gravitates toward that sort of thing (not just counting to 10 or whatever). That or super silly books. Current favorites books are "Spoon" (major silliness - he yells out a high-pitched "spoooooooooon" every time the word appears, lol) and "The Lion's Share", a cute little book about sharing and fractions.

A related question: DS is so grounded in reality, that sometimes, I feel like it's hard for him to come up with pretend things. For example, when I ask him "so, what do you think the fox's in this story's favorite food would be?" a lot of times, his response is, "I don't know, what is it?" like he is looking to be given the RIGHT answer, you know? And I try to explain that there IS no right answer, we are just making it up, and whatever he thinks is fine, but it's a hard concept for him to wrap his head around. (Though oddly, he can make up stories about number people swimming in the Arctic which is x miles deep, sliding on a big rainbow slide, and having fun talking about their lucky numbers etc etc. ...I'm not sure where the flip is in that respect, tbh.)

Does anyone else see this? Especially with their young math/science kids?

My DS is the oppposite. Very very high comprehension - lower decoding especially relative to his comprehension. We have a situation where the books he could read were completely insipid for him. Things are evening out now with his decoding ability getting somewhat more in lie with his interest and comprehension level. But there is still a big gap. It has been a great source of frustration. I am wondering if reading aloud to a child a lot helps comprehension becasue we are always reading (still do) reading books to DS way, way above-level. So basically he physcially reads every day, and every night we read to him and we discuss a book that is well-above his level.

Irena, fwiw, our children's elementary school teachers (in three different schools) always told parents that the *number 1* way to raise comprehension in early elementary students was to read *to* them, no matter what their reading level or decoding ability was. I don't know that they have any research to back them up, but it's a widely accepted theory around here. We have been encouraged to not only read aloud to our children when they are young, but to continue to do so as they get older, on into middle school. I don't know if it helped two older kids with comprehension, because once they could read each of them has always been ahead of the game in comprehension. Our third dd, however, is dyslexic, and we've been told by the professionals who diagnosed her reading challenges and her reading tutors that it's important that she *practices* reading at her decoding level but that we also make sure we read aloud to her and that she has access (as much as possible) to audio books at a much higher level so she can build on her comprehension abilities.

polarbear

First of all, it is very normal for kids that age to acquire decoding skills first and then become more fluent and comprehend better. At that age, my DS was decoding very advanced language, but comprehending 2-3 years ahead. Now, at age 6, his fluency, reading comprehension and decoding are in sync.

What polarbear says is correct - reading comprehension and listening comprehension are somehow related. So, if you keep reading books that are way above the child's reading level and also let them listen to audiobooks and radio talks (NPR etc) and then engage them in discussions about them, it helps the comprehension level to shoot up. In our case, I have limited time, so I read literature classics out loud to DS every day and keep him immersed in a language rich environment - we listen to NPR, audiobooks, DH reads non-fiction to him and I sometimes read newspaper editorials to him. In restaurants, we hand DS the menu and have him read the whole thing and then make his choice. Same with the maps, tickets and brochures when we travel. We hand him a map and ask him to figure out directions to picnic areas, restrooms etc. When we buy anything new with an instruction manual, DS loves to read them and look at the diagrams and he tries to understand how it is put together and how to operate it. And when we drive, we ask him to spot for signs and storefronts. Somehow, all these things helped his comprehension quickly catch up to his reading ability.

My ds14 is a math/science kid and yes, he was very much like this at a young age. I can't tell you if it's typical or not though - my ds has an expressive language disorder, and for him, it's wrapped up in that but it wasn't obvious until he was older and farther along in school. To this day he would have trouble coming up with "what do you think was the fox's favorite food". I am not putting that out there as a suggestion that your ds has any type of challenge, just that I can't really say - oh yes, my very math/scienc-y kid is just like that and it's because he's more into math/science. As he's gotten older and moved along in school, and as my youngest (who is also very math/scienc-y) has gotten older, I've seen lots of math/science kids who have incredibly creative thinking and ability to express it and wouldn't have any problem coming up with a story about what the fox liked to eat. Soooo... while it's nothing that by itself I would even pay attention to, if you are seeing other things that might point to some type of challenge I would think through whether or not this might be related.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Some kids don't really develop beyond literalism (which is what I'd term that-- not necessarily "reality" oriented, so much as not really wrapping their heads around extensions into the possible/imaginary FROM a starting point).

Kids in that stage may well have great imaginary play, etc. even-- but they don't necessarily go with external cues or anything. So "pretend that this is a telescope" may seem strange unless they initiate it themselves.

Kids like that find metaphors puzzling and will ask about idiom and metaphorical language, too.

Even in normal development, this kind of thing is normative up to a point in development-- where they begin to think more abstractly after developing complete theory-of-mind. Normal development places this about 4 yo, I think?

My son who was an early reader is very into math and science, and was given negative feedback in K because of this type of thing. He is very creative at home, and comes up with complex, long-term pretend scenarios that go on for weeks/months, but if asked what a snowman would do at night after reading a story about snowmen coming alive he won't give the expected creative answer. He just wouldn't play along- not at all.

I asked him about it last year after his teacher told me in a parent/teacher conference that he wasn't creative and couldn't pretend (because of the snowman incident), and he said it just seemed ridiculous to him.

Both of my children took stories very seriously. The tv show SuperWhy on PBS freaked them out as toddlers because they didn't like that the characters CHANGED the story.

So I don't know - he had an imaginary friend from 2-4 years old who he talked about so much and in such great detail that on more than one occasions over the years his preschool teachers actually thought I had another child. And even today, at almost 7, he has made up a pretend country, complete with a pretend government, customs and laws that he talks about a lot.

So if a child lies about things, does that mean they have a theory of mind? I remember hearing that it's actually good when a child starts lying, because it means that they are developing cognitively. DS was around 4, I think DD was younger.

My mathy decoder loves non-fiction or anything that is as stupid as possible. So Captain Underpants, The Dumb Bunnies, any kind of joke book. Teacher says that of all the kids in the class, he's the one who really laughs at the humor in books and appreciates things the other kids don't get.

But he doesn't really like fiction that much. Or it could just be an aversion to anything that doesn't have pictures on every single page.
He read a fiction chapter book the other day with hardly any pictures, without me asking or nagging, all on his own. I was shocked. It just takes some kids longer I think. And others will never really get into fiction.

At age 4.5 DS reading level was almost 6th grade but comprehension "only" 2nd grade according to the WJ achievement test. Turns out he had vision issues and he had to focus so much on making his eyes read that he didn't have time to think about comprehension. After vision therapy at age 5.5 his comprehension had gone up to 5th grade.

DD ignores adults when they ask her meaningless questions. When I ask her afterwards why she was being so discourteous, she tells me they were being discourteous first by asking such silly questions. So my first reaction would be that maybe your DS doesn't want to talk about fictional fox's favorite food because it just isn't all that interesting to him. If he is a sweetheart unlike my oppositional DD, please ignore me here.

DD gets really annoyed when I ask her comprehension questions but I force the issue by telling her that I need to know if she is paying enough attention to follow the story so she rolls her eyes and answers my questions.

If this isn't a compliance issue, I'd try talking throughout the book by asking questions and answering them myself with detailed explanations.

It's so interesting how each early reader is different from one another. DD needs to understand what she is reading. She can attack words and decode in isolation but she will not sit and read passages she doesn't understand.

ETA: I agree completely that reading to children is so very important. DD is on a princess stage (Frozen is a gift that keeps on giving...) so we've been reading this as our bedtime story:

http://www.amazon.com/Beauty-Beast-...0639040&sr=1-3&keywords=beauty+and+beast

It's not a book that she's ready to read on her own (1100L) but she is really enjoying it. We'll be watching the animated Disney version and do compare and contrast afterwards. It's not something we could do if we limited our reading selection to her independent reading level.

It's so interesting how each early reader is different from one another. DD needs to understand what she is reading. She can attack words and decode in isolation but she will not sit and read passages she doesn't understand.

:nodding:

-- and laughing more than a little at the compliance issues outlined. My DD, to a tee.

She actually had some trouble being taught that last little missing bit of "full decoding" because, well, Bob books were so... er...

stupidly insipid. I believe that may be an exact quote on the subject from when she was about 6 and reminiscing about the process. If only there were phonetically controlled readers in a Monty Python or Far Side boxed set for kids like her.

Calvin and Hobbes version would be fun.

calvin and hobbes for kids...now THAT would be brilliant.

yep, that's what I'm getting at with the comics.

er...lemme rephrase, it is easy to think of stuff like Calvin and Hobbes as intended for adults because it's so darn good, sophisticated, etc. But there are also other comics out there like that , though you have to do some digging...they're a nice aid for this odd spot for some asynchronous kids.

At 4/5 (when I was looking into K programs) my son was reading through our entire Calvin & Hobbes collection. I worried a bit about him imitating art.