I'm happy to have found this forum, as I'm new to this. I have a three-year-old (just turned three last month) who appears to be rather bright. I took the Talent Igniter online test, and it suggested my son might be Level Three gifted. At times it seems like, oh, of course, that explains so much...and sometimes I think that's crazy, and that he's just a typical kid. What is "normal"? I only have the one kid so I'm not sure what most kiddos are doing. He knows the alphabet, can write most of his name, counts objects up to 10, and is doing 35+ piece puzzles (honestly, 35 piece ones are way too easy; we've been doing more 60 piece lately). I'm having trouble getting a feel of whether we actually have a gifted kid, or if I'm crazy and seeing things that aren't there. This becomes an issue now because we have to decide where to send him for 4K next year. The elementary school we're slated for isn't very good, so we're considering private. Thoughts?
i'm certainly no expert on Ruf, but i feel like a lot of folks around here do ricochet between feeling crazy/normal/in denial a lot, especially when our kids are young. you're absolutely right to be wondering about finding a good environment for your DS' K year - i'm sure lots of people will chime in here with advice and help! and welcome!
Welcome! Ruf's levels are controversial round here because they aren't properly evidence-based as far as can be seen; some people round here find they fit with other measurements of their children, others don't. So treat that with caution. Like many around here I'm among the worst people to ask about what 3yos can normally do, so I won't try to answer that part!
About schools, it depends what your options are. If there is a gifted school that is only good for gifted children or requires testing to get in, then yeah, you may have to make a judgement about whether that should be in the plan. But mostly, what you want is a *good* school and you want that whether or not your child is gifted. Good means things like: the staff care about the children; they treat them as individuals, and don't let traditions or rules stand in the way of individual learning needs; they encourage respectful relationships between all adults and children, and don't tolerate anyone being picked on for being different.
I don't have much faith in the ruf levels though apparently they are skewed towards verbal. I estimated my son a 2/3 on the ruf levels (admittedly I only used the free stuff) when he is actually level 5.
I personally would look for a free play based preschool so he doesn't end up doing 2 years of learning stuff he already knows. Academic stuff can be covered at home. However I am biased as I live in a country where academic skills aren't taught until school at 5. On the other hand if there are gifted schools or you can afford a private school you think would be great now is the time to look round.
I'm having trouble getting a feel of whether we actually have a gifted kid, or if I'm crazy and seeing things that aren't there.
One thought is to move away from the label. It's all a sliding scale in a wide range of different intellectual skills. Kids learn best when presented with material they are ready to learn. So, if a kid knows the alphabet backwards and forwards, they probably are ready to learn letter patterns in words. If they can easily count up to 10, then they would proably like to learn to count to 20+ and then on to skip counting.
I've seen some more formal pre-K programs that list the skills they'll be working on. If they are beneath where your kid is at, keep looking.
One thing to consider when looking at a young child's level of performance or accomplishments is whether this is coming internally from the child, or the degree to which they may have been coached or pushed in their development.
Regarding the Ruf estimates, it is my understanding that they were developed with the population which was available to study... which translates to a relatively small sample. While it may be a great map of that group of children, it is often wise to be cautious when extrapolating to a larger population. There are several interesting interviews with Dr. Ruf on youtube. One example is:
I found Ruf to be pretty accurate for our son and some of her suggestions to be very helpful in understanding him, but he was older (6) when I read her book, thus more history to review/compare. Your child's personality has a lot to do with his fit for particular schools, so think carefully about that as well as how smart/advanced he is vs. others his age. I happen to have a child who is very polite from a manners standpoint but who doesn't sit calmly in his seat and listen to lectures on material he's already covered.
If it were me, doing it all over again, I would spend a lot of time visiting schools (meaning same school, seeing the classroom and most importantly, listening closely to what the adminstrators say when you describe your son... are they condescending? do they brush what you describe off? do they talk about how that might work or not with their program, etc.) Run like he** from rigidity. Look for places where he can advance as needed. Montessori, and by that I mean good, accredited Montessori schools with flexible teachers who get excited when kids learn and grow as fast as they can, can be a good fit, in our experience. It typically has mixed age groupings, which worked very well for both of our boys.
oh, yes! another vote for describing your son explicitly when visiting schools.
i was still in the denial phase when we chose DD's old school and i kind of glossed over her intelligence, simply characterizing her as "fun and interesting." i was so naive that i honestly thought a school that trumpeted its ability to differentiate for every kid would be prepared for mine.
I don't have much faith in the ruf levels though apparently they are skewed towards verbal. I estimated my son a 2/3 on the ruf levels (admittedly I only used the free stuff) when he is actually level 5.
I personally would look for a free play based preschool so he doesn't end up doing 2 years of learning stuff he already knows. Academic stuff can be covered at home. However I am biased as I live in a country where academic skills aren't taught until school at 5. On the other hand if there are gifted schools or you can afford a private school you think would be great now is the time to look round.
Everything Puffin said, except I live in a country where you have to seek out play based preschools. Ruf is just way off (I know many PG kids who still believe in Santa at age 7/8).
oh, yes! another vote for describing your son explicitly when visiting schools.
i was still in the denial phase when we chose DD's old school and i kind of glossed over her intelligence, simply characterizing her as "fun and interesting." i was so naive that i honestly thought a school that trumpeted its ability to differentiate for every kid would be prepared for mine.
ha! how wrong i was...
We were burned so badly on this last year, it still amazes me. Expensive private school, they knew he was way ahead from their own testing and could be a handful and yet... they accepted him and stuck him in the regular class with no accommodations, then played dumb and mean when we protested. The dumb one was the principal, who claimed our son wasn't gifted.
To me, he sounds like a wonderful, smart child. His puzzling skills do seem to be definitely above age-level. I would not harp on making your decision based on if he is gifted or not. Both gifted and non-gifted kids need and would benefit from an enriched preschool environment. Early childhood experiences and quality preschools do make a difference in the long run. If it were me, and my public school was not good, and IF we could afford a quality private preschool, I would go that route! Good luck! Keep finding fun puzzles for him!
ETA: Most preschools do list what they will be learning in the year (as many have mentioned). I would get a list from the schools. Many preschools spend a WEEK a letter which I can't even understand. I really really don't. But that should definitely help you figure out where he fits in and if a particular class would be a good fit. Good luck!
I had a lot of the feelings that you describe when my son was three. I also took the "Ruf" test. It helped by indicating that he was advanced - but the levels are a bit strange and inaccurate (at least for us). DS6 goes to a private school- so far, so good - until first grade. He's bored with the work and starting to make careless errors on homework and quizzes, which further confuses the issue with his teachers. If you decide to go private, Montessori might be a good option for a gifted kid in the early years- less stifling than early elementary classrooms.
We've decided to send DD to a play-based preschool. We haven't found one yet but hopefully we will soon. We looked into a Montessori but her father was never 100% on board with the idea. He wanted DD to connect to other kids through play and have fun. I was okay either way but these days, I'm starting lean towards his side, especially after our favorite Montessori school raised tuition from $7000 to $10,000 for their half day (8:00 to 12:00), 9 months program. So what we're looking for now in a preschool is that they have 1) an awesome playground, 2) kind, experienced teachers, 3) no "academic" circle time, and 4) private bathroom stalls. Vegetarian lunch option would be super but that might just be asking too much.
We unschool academics at home. Basically, we let DD loose at libraries and bookstores. We do support her learning through discussions and getting her materials and equipments she wants within reason; I drew the line at setting up a chemistry lab but we're looking into a decent telescope for her.
We have no idea what we'd do with her after preschool but I try not to worry about that yet.
Thank you all so much for your input. We'll definitely be looking into Montessori.
I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on hothousing versus innate giftedness. We definitely do flashcards with my son, but that's because he asks us to. I would imagine that while this is probably hothousing, it's indicative of his curiosity and intelligence.
ha - if your kid begs for his flashcards, then that's probably HIS passion, not yours! and if he's exploring his interests and having a giggly, loving time with you, he'll feel supported and happy - not stressed and pushed.
my DD loved watching surgery on YouTube when she was 2-3 y/o (and believe me, we are not doctors over here!)... so really, there's no accounting for taste!
I honestly don't like the Ruf estimates either. DS3.5 came up as level 3 but I'm pretty sure he's more than that and DS5 came up 2/3 and I'm sure he's at least a solid 3 but they both took a hit on the score because of huge developmental asynchrony. DS3.5 was counting objects to 20 before he turned 2, started reading phonetically shortly after he turned 2 but is has a significant speech delay and it works against him. He'll close the door to his room and read out loud any children's book probably up to about late 1st / early 2nd grade level but his day to day communication is very limited. DS5 is our math / science / logic wizard but has zero interest in anything connected to reading. And both had physical delays when they were babies / toddlers so there are huge gaps in their development. So, it's nice to have at least know they do seem gifted even according to the Ruf estimate but I don't think the actual levels are corresponding to reality that much.
I think for 2e kiddos Ruf is often way off. We know where our child falls with IQ and achievement and Ruf levels do not reflect those results. I think her levels are mostly useful for parents of preschool age children who are a bit young for formal testing while bearing in mind the lack of precision in such a tool. It's really more of a starting point to seek more information.
Some want to redefine giftedness so that it does not reflect a way of being, something one may or may not exhibit early on, but rather takes into account one's accomplishments, expertise, excellence, level of achievement, eminence. This concept of gifted may be a good fit for Tiger Moms and hothousing practices but may serve a different population than the child who is an intrinsically curious, internally motivated, over-the-top maker of unique and creative connections and who is typically underserved in schools... the child who is difficult to keep up with, one who keeps you on your toes.
Like Mana, we sought out a play-based preschool setting with no academic group time. For us, this included 2+ hours of outdoor time, in rain, snow, etc. It was ideal for our PG DS6! He continued to progress through exposure to diverse materials and opportunities for cooking, gardening and all sorts of self-led experiment. School, on the other hand, continues to be a struggle, as he cannot stand being bored. (K last year and skipped to 2nd this school year is not providing any challenge. ). I would not change a minute of those 2 preschool years -- he just thrived. Wish there was a local school that unschooled in elementary, since that seems so similar to the play-based, self-led model he enjoyed.
Good luck! You know your little one best -- enjoy him!
Thank you all so much for your input. We'll definitely be looking into Montessori.
I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on hothousing versus innate giftedness. We definitely do flashcards with my son, but that's because he asks us to. I would imagine that while this is probably hothousing, it's indicative of his curiosity and intelligence.
DS23mo loves memory work, too. Me, I'd rather do more probing analysis, but he loves flipping through encyclopedias on dinosaurs, naming countries on the globe, identifying rocks in the extensive geology section at the museum...it definitely happens.
If the child is tugging at the parent's sleeve, asking, and excited, I think it's safe to say that that's a child-led approach!
We did start him in a play-based preschool this year, and he LOVES it. He wants to go all day, every day. Definitely happy we found this school. The teacher and director seem to be happy to adjust materials in the room for my son, since they hadn't had any puzzles more than 12 pieces. It was rather satisfying (in a non-mean way) when my son spelled his name out for the teacher, unprompted, and she was pretty shocked. I think she might believe me better now that he's ahead of the curve, and that I'm not just a neurotic mom.
