Being the parent of a gifted toddler, I definitely think they are an underserved population. Even if nothing more than additional resources available to parents of gifted toddlers would be good. Especially when you are a first time parent and don't realize things (like we never thought it strange when my son, then 11 months started playing the harmonica).
Also, knowing the things to look for in a daycare for your child and reading the signs when they are not thriving in an environment would be a big help.
Knowing to track and start a portfolio is also good advice parents of gifted toddlers should know.

You BETCHA!! Early detection of giftedness is a MUST. Not only are they underserved, but they are discriminated against, imo. You tell your doctor you think your kid is gifted and they tell you, "All parents think their kids are geniuses. Just let him grow up." You tell the school district you think your child is gifted and DITTO.

There are so few resources and so little supports.

My son could whistle at 7-8 months (Rite). I thought he just did it because I am a professional whistler. Well, yes, he got exposed to whistling a lot, but to be able to control the muscles and be able to whistle the scales at that stage...sheesh. Looking back, I wish I had known.

Then you finally get them into a program and they are so bright and inquisitive and as such too busy for the structured setting and the teachers freak out and call them discipline problems.

ok Willa...breathe breathe breathe

I agree that Toddlers are underserved. I would love to see Medical Doctors and nurses taking a more active role in early identification.

I agree. People shouldn't be afraid to say that a toddler seems advanced. Our pediatrician didn't even seem interested, or to necessarily even believe me, when I would describe the stuff son was doing at 2 and 3 years of age. Even the staff at the daycare center, supposedly early childhood trained, wasn't as aware of his differences as we were as parents.

I have a coworker who was identified as gifted in grade school, skipped a grade and TAG program and all. She just had a baby a few months ago and she commented how alert the baby was at birth - enough so that the nurses made statments about never having seen such a wide eyed and observant newborn. Now the baby is babbling and attending to what's going on, rolling over and reaching - 3 months old. I've told the first time mom to just keep a really good record of milestones, as I think that her daughter may be following in mom's footsteps.

Maybe we can all make that difference by educating as we go!

I remember when Rite was given the Denver II screening at 18 months, he was able to do most things at 4 years of age (plus) and he pointed out alphabet on the wall and colors and told the story of a fork lift dropping a load of boxes at the local Home Depot place (fos lif go up UP UP. blumpblumpblump boses all fall down. Oh Oh! bwoke all duh lawnmos -- accompany by hand motions and big eyes:^), etc. The Dr. after he was done, plotted the Denver II, while still squatting down by Rite on the floor, then rolled back onto his heels and said, "Wow!"

chuckle.

This was the same doc who, when Rite was born, thought he flipped over from back to front on accident the first day in the hospital then the next day, when the doctor took him out to look at his dislocated hips, he did it again and again and again. Oh! said doc, "he really can roll back to front already". He also noted that he could hold his head up in the hospital and lift it off the mat. He didn't doubt me when I said he smiled at his 1st week check up...cuz Rite smiled at him!!

This was the same doc who noted at 4 months that he'd never seen such an active and alert baby and that I was "going to have" my "hands full".

When I asked him at the 18 month check up if Rite was gifted, even after saying "Wow!" himself, he said, "I don't believe in giftedness".

We lived out in Boulder, Colorado then. It is a highly educated and very liberal town, but there was a very strong culture against "giftedness". Rite didn't have a chance. Even the fellow playgroup moms hated me for my worry over his precocity. We were ostracized when he started spelling his name at about 15-16 months.

When Mite was little his ped. noted his singing and vocab prior to his first birthday. He too said I was going to have my hands full. I never broached the idea of giftedness with him, though, because at 15 months Mite "shut down" and stopped doing everything for about 7 months. His ped, thank goodness, knew where he had been prior to the "stop" and immediately found intervention for him. I think it might have saved Mite from a descent into autism.

Anyhow...off on a ramble again....i wish someone had affirmed my suspicions and given me advice on how to mother these guys!!

Toddlers are sorely neglected when it came to identification and intervention by the medical and education communities. It amazes me that what money is spent in our district is spent at the middle and high school levels. IMO, by then we've missed the boat.

I never knew (before Dr. Ruf's book) that eye contact at birth was unusual. We probably would have been concerned if our second child had not been as alert. Even though I never kept a baby book, I actually have proof of eye contact in the hospital and our daughter engrossed as a book is read to her when she is two months old. We took a lot of pictures (of our first).

The only thing I really took note of was that our daughter walked at 91/2 months and our son walked at 9 3/4 months. Apparently this is not correlated to intelligence.

Here are some interesting oddities of our daughter�s early development (which is/was easily level 4 in comparison to the examples given from birth to six years in the book. She really doesn�t appear THAT different from her peers NOW):

Our daughter had to be held constantly. It�s a good thing she wasn�t a heavy baby because she rode on my hip her entire first year. She wasn�t interested in cuddling. I was simply a means to have a more interesting vantage point. I carried her around with one arm supporting her as she sat on my hip-face out. On one occasion, a concerned woman approached me in public to advise me that I should turn her around for more effective bonding.

Our daughter had a team of imaginary friends! She was always conversing in a sing song voice with �nobody. This spanned from approximately one year to 101/2 years. Now (at 12) when I hear her upstairs by herself and ask who she is talking to, she says �herself�. Almost all of her �friends� were sweet young girls like herself, but one time, I overheard her (just 4) in the bathroom arguing with �Carlie�. She stated, �No! I love my mommy and I�m not supposed to play with matches!� That sent chills down my spine.

When she was 41/2 she completely stopped using any word that began or ended with the ST sound. For six months, she talked around things to avoid making the sound. For example she referred to �stars� as �those sparkly things in the night sky�. As far as I know, she never accidentally used the ST sound during that time. I consulted her pediatrician because I was worried. He said that she was probably practicing in private and when she was satisfied, she would start using it again.

I don�t know if this stuff is related to giftedness or not (although I think I have heard that imaginary friends may be). I did wonder if she was abnormal so I thought I would share the weird stuff to assure other parents who may be experiencing unusual behavior.

Delbows, I was stunned when I read that little tidbit in Ruf's book. Immediately I thought of the night DD6 was born. I held her all night long, and kept waking up every hour or so to make sure she was okay...and every time I opened my eyes, she was staring at me, gazing right into my eyes with the most intense look.

Now, if you can picture this, what made it comical is that she had one eye somehow shut tight so it looked like she was winking at me all night long--and yet the look in her other, open eye was deeply serious and intense. She also had one ear that was flipped forward on itself--it must have been pressed against something in utero that way--and every time I gently pushed it back where it belonged, it would SPRING forward again and stick like that. She looked quite homely that first night. It made me chuckle every time I looked down at her...but I was truly amazed by the incredible (one-eyed) eye contact.

Oddly enough, she was the one of my three kids who mastered winking at a very early age--long before her brother, who is two years older, could do it. We always tell her she was born winking.

LOL, Delbows, and did you ever manage to bond with her? She probably would have been bored if you'd turned her around.

she let me know what she wanted. I always described her as high maintainence rather than fussy.

That's a cute story about your daughter being born winking.

Our daughter was born pretty and pink, so when her brother came along (larger at birth), I thought "poor kid" because he was also so homely and I didn't realize it was temporary.

That intensity about a sound at such a young age, Del, sounds like one of the "over excitabilities". The imaginary friends at age 1, too....that's an unusual ability at that age. I can imagine the "matches" sending a shiver down your spine!!!

Both my boys did the deep gaze at birth. Now I'll have to get Ruf's book from the library again and look up that part. I musta missed it. I have pictures of both boys at less than a week of age staring intently at the camera. I remember with both of them how they watched and watched while I was taking pictures of them.

As for goofy looking, both kids scored high there the first few hours. Rite was a high-level-forceps-turned-cesarean birth. His head was shaped like a cone, with a huge hematoma, a cut over his eye brow from the forceps, and dislocated hips. I swear he came out flipping back to front and staring at the world because his birth had caused such distrust. He was scared!

Mite came with this gob of hair that was above the ear on the right side and about an inch below on the left! The right side looked like it had been cut straight off like a bowl cut. Plus it stood on end on top. His face was just perfect, but his hair was absolutely humorous. A friend of mine came to see us in the hospital and spent the whole time she held him just trying to discretely smooth down his hair. chuckle. Rite used to tell Mite, "You sure are beautiful, but you have funny hair!!!"

chuckle. INteresting how you can just adore them no matter how goofy they look, eh?!

Oh and both boys liked to be on my hip facing out, too!!! That's interesting! I never thought about it before. I guess they were just too busy to be cuddled!! But they did like their snuggle time at night.

Gosh! I just love this group. It's so cool to find people who are like me with odd little kids who are like mine!!! chuckle.

I've had four children all of whom were recognizing faces and smiling very early on - but when my 5 year old smiled at me at 3 weeks of age even *I* wasn't sure what to think! I thought that perhaps I had just forgotten the milestones since it had been 18 years since my last baby! When babies smile early people always say "oh, it was just gas!" I don't know about you, but gas doesn't make *me* smile, I'm not sure why it would make a baby smile.

I wonder why it is that people aren't comfortable saying "wow, your baby is doing things pretty early, maybe that means something" as opposed to "oh, I'm sure that was a fluke. Babies that young just don't do those things." It would be nice if more people would recognize what meeting milestones early might mean.

Delbows, My firstborn (DD12) was "high maintenance" also. I've been very careful to never describe her (within her hearing) as "a difficult baby." I always say "she had a difficult time with being a baby." Which I think is true, because she just seemed so angry about being helpless and dependent.

Basically she screamed her way through the whole first year. She was hypersensitive to stimuli. She wouldn't react in the moment--if we went out, she seemed happily enthralled by the noise, lights, people, activities. But when we'd get home she'd scream for two hours straight. Getting to sleep was a big problem, too. It took me awhile, but I finally figured it out that the less I did with her (rocking, singing, etc.) at bedtime, the faster she'd settle down.

She didn't want to be held facing me, either. When she was old enough, she would literally put her arms straight out and push against me, while arching her back and her neck as far away as possible. I tried not to take it personally, LOL. She was nothing like the calm, cuddly babies my friends had.

There is so much more I'd love to say on this thread but I must get some work accomplished today!

GG

I'm playing sick today with a yucky cold, which is why I have so much time to devote here.

I love reading all your stories and I understand if you skip over this post. (I have way too much time on my hands today!)

I wrote earlier about weird stuff regarding our gifted daughter in the hopes that some of our �lurkers� or parents of younger kids could be reassured that the oddities their children display or will display are not a reason to panic. Here are some examples from our highly gifted son�s early years:

What a talker! I don�t really know when he started talking. I have heard parents refer to their children�s vocabulary in term of how many words they knew at a certain age how many words they used in a sentence. That practice could not have worked with our son because I don�t even remember a progression. He spoke conversationally while he was still an infant. He started preschool (part-time) when he was 14 months and the staff was literally stunned. They told me his speech was better than any Kindergartner they had ever seen (the school went thru K). I just assumed it was because he had a lot of one on one time with me and I never �baby talked� to my kids.

I was constantly exhausted for the first five years of his life I felt like the perpetual losing contestant on a never ending quiz show! Now that he is 10, I am the captive audience to constant lectures that are way above my level of interest and knowledge. We are both happy when my husband is available to participate. He finds the conversation engaging.

Not only could he say the alphabet and count to 20+ by 18 months, he could also IDENTIFY all the letters, numbers thru 20 and standard shapes and colors by that age. That is why I was so shocked when my daughter brought home her first report card from her second year of (public school) K where it listed all the objectives for the entire year which generally consisted of the above skills. There was no way that our son would have tolerated that level of remedial work at age six!

I hope this doesn�t come across a bragging. Considering the company I am in, I will assume that it doesn�t. I guess my point here is that sometimes even I (in my oblivion) sometimes considered my son�s early development as a bit �spooky�.

Here is something that is weird and spooky at any age: SLEEP ISSUES

INSOMNIA
When our son was 41/2 years old we consulted his pediatrician regarding the fact that he could not fall asleep at night. This had become a serious problem for us and my husband and I were extremely exhausted and had no time to ourselves. Our pediatrician suggested that our son may need more intellectual stimulation. We removed him from the excellent preschool that he had simply out-grown and put him in an academically intensive self study academy. Within a week, he was falling asleep by 8:15pm.


NIGHT TERRORS
DS10 went through a period of 11/2 years (approximately 7 to 81/2) were he would have night terrors 4 or 5 times per week. I researched the issue extensively on the internet, but nothing I found quite matched his behaviors. The pediatrician was proactive but inexperienced in this subject (apparently it is uncommon). He referred my son for brain wave graphing in a restful state (forgot the term) where nothing unusual was found. Essentially, he would sleep walk within 2 hours of falling asleep. He was looking for me (to crawl on my lap or get into my bed) and would appear awake but sleepy (at first). The telltale sign was that his teeth would by chattering and is body would be slightly rigid and convulsing. In half the instances, he would also being shrieking at some point. What made his case different from the information that I found, was that my touch calmed him rather than the opposite as described on medical pages. Also, he obeyed directives in this state. He was too big for me to carry safely (my husband was gone often), so I would direct him to walk back to his room and he complied. After further research, I began to direct him to use the bathroom (to urinate), after which he would easily be lead back to bed and fall asleep.

This probably bored most of you, but if it helped on family, I�m glad to have shared these experiences.

Diana

Diana, none of that came across as bragging and it was not boring in the least, but rather, very interesting to me. Thank you for sharing all of it.

Oh, and I am so so glad you wrote about the sleep issues! I have been pondering how to deal with DD6's current sleep issues. I'll write more later... time to pick her up from school.

GG

in this group I don't think anything we say counts for a brag. one thing that I **love** about this group is that I can post my kids real stories and feel comfortable in the knowledge that no one will accuse me of bragging and not only that, many of the other posters here have kids who DO THAT TOO!!!

I can't even tell my boys' stories to their aunts and uncles and my dad because of the "bragging" perception they take.

So, please, share your stories. They make me feel less alone. Please let me share our stories, too. I know you understand!!

WillaFite, Wife to Bite, Momma to Rite(15) and Mite(9) and the two cats Spite and Respite8^()

Hi Diana. You have every right to brag. I am so grateful for this site. My favorite past time is bragging about my son...I can't help it. He is completely amazing. People always look at me funny when I talk about him and most think I am just exaggerating. It's so wonderful to celebrate our children's accomplishments.
Thank you for sharing your stories. I don't know what night terrors are really but my 2.8 yo son sometimes wake up in the middle of the night screaming about things that frustrate him like "no more milk in the bed" and " no more cookies". I will certainly look into this.
There is something I am concerned and I would like to see what everyone's ideas are. My son goes to an early intervention class beacuse he was delayed in talking although as soon as he turned 2 he started talking away and at that time reading letters and numbers on the freeway signs and cigarette prices at the gas stations. Now he is reading, spelling doing addition, subtraction, multiplication. He knew his alphabet, numbers, colors and shapes at around 16 months. Some of his teachers are concerned about his "selective listening" and his being inconsistent in following directions. My husband and I feel that he listens and follows directions only when he is interested with the activity or if there is a promise of something he is interested in. Does anybody have the same issues with their gifted toddlers? He also likes to do certain things a few times but then gets bored and does not want to repeat the same activity that he seemingly enjoyed so much just the day before. He is also very fascinated with letters and numbers. Often, he would create letters and numbers out of pieces of paper, toys or just about any object. He would often correctly tell us the first letter of words he would hear, attempting to spell them out from how they sound. Does any body have any behavioral issues like this with their gifted children? Do you think this could be a cause for concern?

Same story here with the night terrors, crying , all would go away after urinating... Could never wake him up from this state, ever...Again have to laugh at how similar our kids are.
And this constant talk about the things he is finding out that are totally not my interest.. follows me around the house while I am doing things and keeps on talking, talking, talking...
Don't you have this constant impression that they are perceiving the world differently, they are somehow "wired" differently?
Off to pick him up. He is writing SAT today. Good Lord!
Ania

I think that pathologizing typical gifted behavior is a cause for concern. I think that "selective listening" in an almost 3 year old sounds pretty normal - gifted or not.

I think the best thing is to spend time in the classroom, and see what the children are like. Putting a hightly gifted kid in a group setting with NT children can set the kid up for negative behaviors. I've BTDT. I also don't like Adults hovering over my kid trying to figure out "what's wrong with him." I think a kid would pick up on that, don't you?

If your child is having fun in early intervention, then it's probably good for him. If he isn't, can you bring him home? Three is very young, and kids who aren't in sync with their agemates have a lot to handle.

Best wishes,
Trinity

Hi Trinity. He does enjoy going to his early intervention class. He likes being with other children although he LOVES being with older children or with adults. My husband and I are older and first time parents and we don't really know what's typical and what's not. Now though, we are seeing more and more signs of giftedness. He can now finish a 48-piece puzzle in 5 minutes. Only problem is that, he does the same puzzle 3 times and then he just gets bored with it. I think that some teachers do not have enough experience with gifted children and often misunderstand their behavior.
Thanks,
Jon's mom

[quote=jon's momSome of his teachers are concerned about his "selective listening" and his being inconsistent in following directions. My husband and I feel that he listens and follows directions only when he is interested with the activity or if there is a promise of something he is interested in. Does anybody have the same issues with their gifted toddlers?[/quote]

I agree with Trinity that this is typical behavior for any 3 year old, especially boys. It was noticed in our gifted boy also! His preschool teachers told us that he wasn't interested in group activities. They would excuse him from particiapation often (he worked quietly with building toys or read).

Selective listening?!!! Eveyone does it. When you grow up you just get better at hiding it.

Good one, Jill. Actually, my husband says he gets the selective listening trait from me since I sometimes zone out when he talks.

Dear Ones,
I'm trying to put together a list of reccomended resouces for Medical doctors to give to parents of gifted toddlers and preschoolers.

Obviously I'll put the Ruf book on my list. But what other books or websites should go with it?

I saw this book on amazon, but couldn't get a feel for it from the info there. Has anyone who read it care to comment on "what's in it" and how helpful it is to "newbie" parents?

Parents' Guide to Raising a Gifted Toddler: Recognizing and Developing the Potential of Your Child from Birth to Five Years (Hardcover)
by James Alvino (Author), Gifted Children Monthly (Author)

Thanks,
Trinity

Hello. Please forgive me if I am posting to an inappropriate forum/board. I just stumbled across your forum and I have been feeling very overwhelmed lately and need to find answers and was hoping some of you might be able to provide direction (you all sound very knowledgeable!).

I have had a few people tell me they think my 3yo is gifted. People have ALWAYS told me "he walks to the beat of his own drummer", etc., etc. He tracks with many traits of gifted children, from my limited knowledge. And giftedness runs in both families.

Anyway, my son has "definite difference" on many sensory areas, he's highly imaginative, extremely talkative, very busy, has always preferred older children, incredible memory, mimics things verbally to a tee, wonderful sense of humor, knew the correct names of pretty much every truck, tractor, and machine in existence before he turned 2, but my concern is that he seems not the least bit interested in learning "academics". He is so bright, and I am shocked that he can't or won't learn the alphabet or numbers by sight. Also, he seems to have trouble with puzzles. It seems like these are items that he would excel at if he were gifted. (He will spend hours immersed in "construction work" or science experiments or playing little people).

He is very social, but seems to be in his own world alot (he seeks out peers to have discussions with, but starts rambling about his imaginary friends and they look at him like "what is this kid talking about"). Consequently, he talks out loud to himself alot! His preschool teacher recenlty suggested I move him to somewhere more structured and with older children (referring to his lack of emotional control, rigidity to change, and inability to focus in all the "chaos" of this particular school-it is a child development lab school on a college campus and there are a TON of children and students just doing whatever they want for 3 hours). However, she didn't mention anything at all to me in the way of giftedness. Another concern is that he has always seemed to get anxious or stressed very easily and often, and I don't want him to go through life feeling that way.

Anyway, I could go on and on about stuff, but my main question is where do I start to find out what is going on with him? I really, really want to make sure I place him in a school that is right for him (now and in the future) and that his sensitivity issues don't impact his learning, etc. Who do I call to find out if he really is gifted? What things do I look for? How do I learn the best way to raise him if he is gifted? (I really don't want him to become the next family member who's giftedness is overlooked, if this truly is the case. Nor do I want any learning disabilities overlooked/misdiagnosed). I've noticed people on the forum have mentioned lack of resources. What IS out there? We live in San Luis Obispo, CA, which is a smaller community.

It is so hard for me to talk to people I know about this because I feel they think I am either overprotective/looking for things to worry about, or just bragging about how great I think my child is... Sometimes I wonder if he really is gifted, then shouldn't a teacher or doctor have noticed it and be the one telling me?

Well, thank you for any help any of you can provide to me.
Leah

Welcome Leah,

You are in the right place and asking the right questions. Your son sounds like a remarkable child.

There are others here who are probably better at answering many of your questions and I will defer to them. But I wanted to reassure you that 1) you are in the right place and 2)Don't worry about his not wanting to learn academic things, yet. That will come with time. Children will learn what they are ready to learn when they are ready to learn it. A person who has only been in the world for 3 years just hasn't had time to learn or be interested in everything, no matter how smart they are. My son taught himself to read between 2 and 3, but did not sit independently until AFTER he learned to walk at 15 months. He has drawn mazes since he was four, but even at age 11, hates jigsaw puzzles. One of my friend's daughters struggled to learn to read at the beginning of first grade and by the end of first grade was reading Harry Potter independently. So relax (at least about that), give him lots of opportunities and expose him to stuff, but don't worry if he doesn't catch on (or even care) right away--it just means he's using his energy to do something else first.

I hope this helps!

Anne

Hi Leah,

When looking for something else, i ran across this site and wondered if you might find it helpful or if other parents have thoughts about its usefulness. http://www.helendowland.fasthit.net/Helping%20gifted%20preschoolers.htm

Since DS is now 11, toddlerhood seems like a different world to me :-)

Cheers!

Anne

I can speak to the issues of medical doctors, since I've been asking around. LOL! Pediatricians generally tend to feel that "gitedness" is a diagnosis that belongs to the psychologist, and is "outside" their area of expertise. Plus, the training tends to help folks focus on diseases, and things that are wrong - not different developmental paths.

As for teachers, lets do a little "thought experiment" - an obvious oversimplification, but I believe it's worth considering -

Since giftedness only occurs 2 in 100 kids, or less, depending on how you define it, and lets say it takes knowing 5 other gifted children well before a teacher starts to see the girtedness pattern, so a preschool teacher assigned to 10 children per year would take, on average, 25 years before he or she was ready to start talking about "hey, did you notice that your child is gifted?" An elementary teacher with 20 kids/year would only, on average, start seeing the giftendess pattern after 12 years.

You probably can count between 5 and 10 gifted family members without too much effort. So who are you going to look to for reassurance?

When my son was in 2nd grade, wearing his teacher out, the school psychologist called me in for a "little chat" with the classroom teacher, who was a kind and caring woman with 20 years experience. The psycholgist was suggesting that there was an ADHD problem. She walked over to the classroom teacher, who was sitting, bend over, squeezed the teacher's upper arms lovingly, and said: "Mrs X has been teaching class for 20 years, and she's successfully taught a lot of children with ADHD, and she's never seen anything like you son."

You could have knocked me over with a feather. Of course I believed them, and went on a long and expensive goose chase to find out "what was wrong with my son." Eventually we got IQ test result that qualified us for the Davidson Young Scholars Program - about one out of a thousand - so, 20 years, times 20 kids/year, that 400 kids over a lifetime of teaching. Yeah - it was true, she had probably never seen a kid like my boy. Didn't mean that there was something wrong with him! Did mean that there was something wrong with the fit between him and his classroom.

Even our local psychologist, who did the testing and gave his opinion afterwards didn't make much of the scores. Later, when the public school district folks said, "We checked, and there is good news, we have lots of bright kids just like your son at the Middle School, I called him back to see if maybe I was making too much of a big deal over my son's scores - there are plenty of kids I've met since then that are much more extreame academically - and he said that my son's score were the highest he had ever tested. All I can do is be grateful that the Davidson's are committed to getting this information out there and that I somehow bumped into it.

So - keep being skeptical - keep asking questions - keep reading, the "Davidson Database" link on your left takes you to lots of articles one can read.

Do look into preschools, particularly of school that have an elementary (or more) school attached. Talk and listen to what the heads of school have to say after they have observed him.

Here's an article to start with for the purposes of knowing what to document. When you go for formal testing you'll want to be able to share this information with a tester.
http://www.educationaloptions.com/preschool_gifted.htm

One option is to get testing right now. (be sure it's with a tester who is well versed in gifted children) - Another is to look around for a different school. Another is to see if you can met other parents through your state gifted association. Please don't worry that your child "might not" be gifted - all everyone wants is for EACH child to find a way to be their "best selves" - it's probable that people who know about gifted will be very useful to you in knowing how to parent your child.

BTW - I won't laught at you for worrying that your 3 year old isn't reading! But I will take the opportunity to laught at myself. My son wasn't even at the level of "Magic Tree House" books until a good way into 1st grade - but he would listen to my reading very "above-expected" books to him for all long as I had breath left. We found an OT who was trained in "Sensory Integration" to be very useful, even at age 7, which is late, for the "extra sensitivities" that seem to go along with Giftedness for some children.

As for the anxious, thin-skinned part - we been there also. Some of it is stress from being in "poor fit" environments. Some of it is his personality, and some of it is from having "too much information/not enough experience." I made sure to "protect" him from news, Disney feature films, anything upsetting as much as I could.

I read Raising Your Spirited Child: A Guide for Parents Whose Child Is More Intense, Sensitive, Perceptive, Persistent, Energetic by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka and that helped, and I also reccomend The Out-of-Sync Child: Recognizing and Coping with Sensory Processing Disorder, Revised Edition by Carol Stock Kranowitz and Lucy Jane Miller and The Out-of-Sync Child Has Fun, Revised Edition: Activities for Kids with Sensory Processing Disorder by Carol Stock Kranowitz.

I guess I believe the bottom line is that I would try not to worry about if your child is or isn't gifted, instead I would focus on making his world "gifted-friendly." If you are spending some time with "regular" 3 year olds, and seeing big differences, then look into what "people who know Gifted" know, ok?

I am looking for someone who can give me advice for my 2 1/2 years old son who I think is extra-ordinary. He is very active, imaginative, energetic, and prefer to play with older children rather than his age[/color]. He does not start talking until he is 20 months old and start talking in full sentences by 2 years old. He is very talkative, full sence of humor. Before he was 1 year old (although he could not talk yet then) he can identify people, various types of trucks, primates, alphabets a-z and numbers, very good memory and can pay attention to people. He loves music too and last sunday he surprises by playing his little violin and singing for us. He likes to fix jigzaw puzzle and he can already fix the USA Map puzzle with the 50 states. He can put back the puzzle without any help. He knows the US map and can identify at least 25 states and also the world map and the flags. He can also identify 30 out of 43 Presidents of US. He loves to reading too.

I have visited a number of preschools and I am not sure if any of it is the right one for him.

I live in Alta Loma California, (Southern CA). Can any one give me some idea what can I do for my son.
Thanks

Welcome Sandra,

Do any of the preschools have multiage classrooms? Would any of them be willing to look at him and see if they would place him with older kids?

Best Wishes,
Trinity

I have just enrolled him in a Kumon School and he starts today. I have checked out many preschools near by my area but I did not ask if they will put him with the older students... Thanks for the advice. I'll ask again.
He is a self motivated learner.. he asks for reading, and violin and stuffs... i am planny to put him in Suzuki Violin this September when he turns 3.
Please let me know if you have any more advice. I can even travel to Los Angeles area, if I need to..which is only about 30 miles from me.
Thanks Trinity.
Sandra

Sandra,
I can answer your questions pertaining to suzuki violin - I have been involved for more than 8 years now. My son who is now 12, started when he was about 3.5. My daughter, who is almost 10, got her first violin for her third birthday (I could not afford for her to play on mine :-)but we did not start formal lessons till she was close to 4 years old. It is a very time consuming activity and quite expensive. Right now I am looking into purchasing a full size for my 12 year old and I will probably have to spend $5,000 to $7,000, at the very least, plus another thousand for a bow and case. It's like he is getting a car at 12 :-)
Ania

Sandra,
Good luck with the new school! I've heard of Kumon Centers for afterschool - is this related?

Thanks Trinity.
The reason I choose this for now is Kumon accept children not by their age group, but by their level of knowledge. They have a placement test and they will put the child in appropriate level and work with the child one on one.
Yes.. it is like after school program for the kids. I spoke to the instructor and they gave him a placement test.. Infact they have never have a child this young.. the youngest they have is 4.
My son is very happy at his first day at school.

I am quite prepare for that. I have a cousin who went through the suzuki program and now he is pro violin and pianist. I am aware of the expenses too.. I told my husband to start saving for his music lesson expenses :))

Sandra -
Yippee!
Go Sandra, Go Sandra!

Trin

Hi All, first time posting here. Been reading for a while and it's been wonderful to read about folks with similar issues makes me feel like I am not the only one out there! Living in a small town is tough when you have a toddler that is different!

I have a 3 year old son who has been keep us on our toes since he is 6 months old. Just read Ruf's book and she sure answered a lot of questions for me! My husband and I have been dealing with a new issue lately that really has me worried and I wondered if anyone else has dealt with this type of thing with their toddler or young one.. We have not had our son in school up until now just because I have had the opportunity to stay home with him and he has been a voracious learner. At three, he is drawing full scale people, skip counting by 2, 4, 3, 5 and 10's. writing his alphabet in two languages, and has so many obsessions I couldn't even begin to write about them. :-)

About 3 weeks ago, we enrolled him in a Spanish immersion program (preschool) 2 days a week to provide him with a new challenge. As most three year olds he also has been challenging us lately with independence type behavior and so we've been arguing with him more than usual lately. Anyway, he started a new behavior that has me quite concerned and when I brought it to the attention of our pediatrician he thought nothing of it & said to just leave it alone. Wondered if you had come across this type of thing with your children and had some advice. He has started shoulder shrugging and deep belly breathing when he is uncomfortable or nervous and it has gotten progressively worse over the last few weeks. To the point where it disrupts everything he does. I don't know if it's in response to a new school, our recent arguments over his behavior issues lately or something completely unrelated but it worries me that a 3 year old could have such a pronounced "nervous tic" - he is a very sensitive child to begin with and it worries me that this is something that will become habit for him and will be hard to lose... Is this a common trait for a sensitive kid - has anyone else seen this type of behavior. Any advice?

thanks for your time!!
Traci

hi Traci,

Welcome. You are not alone.

Check out this link, and see if it helps -
http://www.sengifted.org/articles_social/Lind_OverexcitabilityAndTheGifted.shtml

Also journal the "independence type behavior, your responce, and his responce." You may be able to give him more meaningful work to do in his world, and more independence is some ways.

Also, talk to his preschool. When is the summer break? If he is with agemates, it may be very disturbing to him.

Tell us more...
Best Wishes,
Trinity

Anne and Trinity,
Thank you so much for your reassurance and suggestions. Very, very helpful. Trinity, especially your points about who would know better whether my child was gifted or not - hit me like a ton of bricks! Very right on. I just started reading the out of sync child. And the link you recently posted for someone else about social/emotional issues was great!
Thanks so much for your detailed reply. I really feel like I have a good idea where to go from here!
Leah

thanks for the thanks Leah!
Post again if you ever need an ear.
FWIW - on of my "pet" landmarks for gifteness in preschoolers is that their Moms have stopped talking about their development! So for me, if you have to come here to be taken seriously, that alone suggests that your child is gifted.

Golly I re-read my post, and it's all true, but it seems fantasticly strange to me - as if it couldn't possibly have happened. I keep thinking that someday I'll get over it and move on, but it sure doesn't seem that way....((shrug))

((hugs))
Trinity

We had a bad experience with Suzuki method and Mite. It was really a bad teacher, not the method. Our Rite, of course, took off in Suzuki and was Mr. Star of the recital when he was 6. He didn't like violin and we let him quit right after that, though.

Mite was 4 when he start. He really struggled with his fingers. Now, of course, we know why, but back then we just thought he didn't get it. HIs teacher was horrendous. She would scold him and scold him and tell him, "I already showed you this. You need to pay attention. You need to concentrate." etc. He felt so badly after his lessons that we only did 5 and we quit. To this day, he won't try violin.

Knowing now how severe the disability is, especially in his left hand, I wish I could go back to that teacher and give her a verbal lashing.

Come to think of it, his piano teacher says the same things and he knows about Mite's disabilities. hmmmmmmmmmm. Well, we're off for the summer with that guy and plan on landing somewhere else in the fall.

I don't understand people who insist that a child is not disabled, but would rather label them as lazy and careless.

Hi Leah,
Your description of your son reminds me of my 2 yo. I had never talked about my 2 yo here before because I am not sure if he is gifted. He has an older brother (3 yo now) who knew the alphabet, count to 100, and started sight reading before he turned 2. Now at age 3, his reading and math are at 2nd grade level. He is obviously gifted. DS2 on the other hand, is not obsessed with numbers and letters like DS3. He still doesn't know the alphabet at age 2. His talents and interests are very different from DS3. For instance, DS2 could talk in complete sentences and recite familiar books from memory before his 2nd birthday (neither of which DS3 could do). He can do amazing things with blocks and puzzles (neither of which DS3 is interested in). Compared to DS3 who is very academically gifted, DS2 does not seem extraordinary. However, compared to other 2 year olds, he is shockingly advanced. I also suspect that he is gifted because he is just like my DH and DH is profoundly gifted (before I met him, I had never known it was even possible to have an IQ as high as his). DH told me he did not show any academic giftedness until school age, but everyone suspected he was very smart based on his verbal and creative talents, just like DS2.

I'm saying all this to let you know that gifted children can have very different abilities and interests, especially at such an early age. Please read my old posts about DS3 if you're interested in my own current struggles and questions, and others' helpful responses to them. Even though your son and my DS3 are very different in terms of their academic interests, DS3 is also very sensitive and has special needs in preschool which I'm struggling with. You might empathize with that.

Junior

Junior-

You're absolutely right about children who may be equally gifted presenting very differently. Firstborns are much more likely to be obvious about being gifted, but in many cases, later borns are tested and found to be very close in overall intellectual skills.

Your younger son might be the visual spatial type described by Linda Silverman. Have you read her book, Upside Down Brilliance?

Ditto, I would have totally missed DD5's giftedness for these reasons. We had her evaluated out of concern for ADD and have found she is HG. In my gifted denial ignorance I would have totally mishandled her, it would have been tragic.

I

Same here i haven't mentioned my DS23mo yet because I didn't think he was gifted until the last 2 months. He just does things differently. He wasn't showing anything achedemically. But he has always had very advanced motor skills. He walked at 9mo. He was climbing something by himself at the park at 19 mo that DS3 had just figured out how to climb that week. He also has held a pencil perfectly, like an adult, since 20 months (DS3 still can't figure out how to hold a pencil correctly). He has very good consentrated control of his writing.
Recently though, I thought he didn't know his letters because he wouldn't tell me when I'd ask him. But i found now if i ask him to get a letter for me from his magnetic letters, he knows them. He also was walking around a couple weeks ago and counted to 12 out of no where. Then the next week i started to count in Spanish..Uno, Dos....and DS23mo finished to 10. I couldn't believe it because i hadn't taught him the spanish.
I think a big thing was when it was just DS3.. i had more time and did consentrate more on teaching him things, more one on one time. With more kids maybe we get a little buisier ...even though I fell i really try to make that time. Also I think the sencond will lern the same way as the first, but then I realize they all learn differently. DS23mo seems to pick up a lot of his learning from listening to his big brother DS3. HE wants to do everything his big brother does.

Ditto your situation, I think, Junior.

I was worried that DS3 may have had an LD. He had no interest in learning letters or doing more than scribbling on paper. In literally ONE DAY (no exaggeration!) he went from random scribbles without any attempt to make anything recognizable to writing his name perfectly legibly all by himself! He's also playing the "Last Letter Game" with us...even though he doesn't know his letters...or does he!?! (Hint: you can't play the game without knowing at least the letter sounds!)

It's been really, REALLY freaking me out! Just a totally different, utterly wholistic style from DS6. If DS3's not a GT, visual-spatial kid, I'll eat my hat!

I totally feel the same way about DD3, our youngest. I really thought she's going to be my "normal" kid. She was a little speech delayed (especially compared to DS) because she had non-stop ear infections for a while and had ear tubes placed at 18 months. Non-stop talker now - blah blah blah. Went from not writing a lick to all of a sudden being able to copy any letter and writes her name all over many surfaces she shouldn't. She actually has much better small motor skills than DS7. DS7 took about a month into kindergarten to hold a pencil consistently correctly. She's actually much more "academically interested" than DS was at 3. She has a number of sight words and loves early readers and all this stuff I never did with DS. DS learned it, but didn't care or ask to do this kind of stuff. She wants "homework", "workbooks", etc etc etc.

But she is also princess ballerina dancing fairy girl. Oh my. Still getting used to the girl angle! Yesterday she said to me "if it isn't too much trouble, would you get me some juice". She makes me laugh daily. And pull my hair out. Like when she gave herself a haircut right before the holidays. 6+ inches of hair gone in the blink of an eye.

Hey Kimck,
I spotted a cousin's child because the princesss ballerina fairy girl was saving endangered animal babies by fighting dinosaurs with her light saber. ((giggle))
Her Parents thought it was cute. I was like....'you should have her tested?'
grin

Ha! That scenario could have definitely happened at our house, light saber and all!

*laughing*, (*thinking*: I need a little girl!) Someday hopefully...though boys are so much fun!

I have found it interesting to observe DS2, as DD9 has had her "gifted" label since he was born. With DD I was oblivious that kids weren't supposed to do what she did. Now with DS, I was concerned about his language development because DD was talking full sentences before 2 and reading at 3.5. Then I realized that DS is very bright but he is just different. His language skills came overnight but his motor skills were ahead of DD's. He is also very skilled at taking things apart and fixing his toys. He loves to organize his cars and trains by color even lightest to darkest within a color, size or cars etc.

Where they are similar is that they both love puzzles. DS lacks the fine motor skills for maze puzzles, but if I hold the pen for him, he figures them out.

As far as the boy/girl differences, in our house DS will use Barbies for weapons (we don't allow guns/knives etc. as toys) or will run around with a tiara and high heels. He loves to dance with DD and knows the lyrics to all High School Musical songs. Poor guy, LOL!!!!!

I'm looking for some advice, just to help my brain stew better. I though this toddler section seemed appropriate.
My DS3 is in a homebased head start program (for those who don't knowthat program, his teacher comes to teach him at our house once a week, and he goes to class an additional 2 times a month for socialization). I was excited at first because his first teacher seemed excited about his abilities and started talking to a first and second grade teacher to find activities appropriate for him. Unfortunately DS only got to meet with her like once i think. Then she got transferred to another area. So he has this new teacher, who is very nice, but I'm just not happy with her. I'd feel the time spent with her is a waste of time except, DS23mo gets to participate, and It is very enjoyable to him, and if not for DS3. DS23mo wouldn't have the opprtunity to have that learning situation. Anyway my frustration is that his teacher is fully aware that he can read early readers, and knew his colors, shapes, letters, since 19 mo or earlier, (letter sounds 20mo), can recognize numbers to 100 (at least), and can count to 49 without help, yet she still asks him bogus questions like asking him what #1 is or having him tell her his colors, and having him match letters. She even brings these dumb board books and has me read them to him about numbers 1-4, or 1-10. I haven' t said anything because she so nice. I think she is just teaching the lesson plan she teaches to all the kids.I believe she does try to make it a little more advance and often skips things that are far under his ablility , but it still isn't helpful. DS 23 months loves this time though. So I keep thinking about quitting the program, but its so nice for DS23mo. Also DS3 does get good motor skills practice which he needs (cutting, sewing cards, drawing), he also does enjoy the socializations days and has a best buddy there who's 5. (i wish so bad for DS to go on to kindergarden with this boy, though im not sure if it would be good..and DS3's teacher has told me how impossible that would be from what she's seen (though i may still try if it he seems ready enough later....i just worry about motor skills and maturity)
Anyway.. my posts are always so unorganized ...and more like thinking out loud, so i hope you understand what i'm trying to say. I'm just not sure what i should do about the teaching situation, or if I should say something. I guess I should, but I'm not sure what I should do and say about it. I just keep hoping it will get better as she gets to know him more. Meanwhile its good for DS23mo....whats your input?

-Jenafur

Jenafur,

It seems like the preschool program has some value to him at least motor skills and social. Also, it allows your DS2 to participate at home which is good for him. Maybe if you supplement your own instruction until DS has some testing done of his abilities? I know it must be difficult to get the level of instruction your DS needs, I was so oblivious to DD's giftedness that I just went along the regular curriculum and she read and learned on her own.

It would be fine though to speak with the teacher when she comes to your house about what the other teacher had intended for your DS. You can give examples of his abilities, and let her decide what she is comfortable with. If nothing happens with that, you can supplement at home during the days he is not at preschool.

What are your goals for the Head Start program and your DS3? (I'm leaving aside for the moment the help it's giving your DS2, since that isn't the goal for the program.)

I think your goals for DS3 are important to consider, because if the program isn't meeting your goals, and you want to keep using the program, then something ought to change.

Do you think the below-skill-level stuff the teacher is giving DS3 is harming him? Making him dislike the work? Dislike her? Feel like he knows everything there is to know already? If you said "yes" to any of these questions, then I'd say something needs to be done sooner rather than later. A talk with the teacher should be your first step, and you should talk to her soon! If that doesn't cut it, then you might need to advocate with the head of the program.

OTOH, if you said "no" to all of these questions and instead you just think the Head Start work is not as challenging as it could be, then it sounds to me like your DS3 is getting enough out of the program to make it worth continuing. Talk to the teacher if it feels comfortable to do, but don't make a big stink about it. You can always supplement the program on your own time with material that is challenging enough for your DS3...and let the Head Start stuff be more for DS2! Do what works!

Mommy2myEm - that is so funny how the boy and girl dynamics cross! I somewhat regularly find DS7 engaged in a war between DD3's calico critters. Or a tornado or hurricane has attacked their house. The horror! DD3 regularly arms herself with a lightsaber (the closest thing we allow to a weapon in the house) while wearing princess dresses. DS7 was also stomping around in DD3's dress up shoes the other day.

My DS was exactly the same with the fine motor stuff. Kindergarten really was great for him for fine motor skills. Once it clicked, he took off.

I have a friend with a DD5 who is an oldest. She's really excited about academics, very high energy, etc. She has a DS3 and she worries about him because he doesn't laugh with glee over alphabet games, writing, etc like her daughter was at 3. We were with them one day, and this little guy identified the make of a pick up truck and the fact that it had 2 gas tanks at 100+ feet along with plenty of other technical details. Umm ... yeah - I wouldn't worry about him! They are just really wired differently.

And Jenafur - boys are so fun! When I was pregnant with #2, I really thought it would be so much fun to have 2 little boys running around.

OH it is very fun! I had no idea I'd love it so much. They are almost like twins, they do everything together!
I just have this yearning in me to have a little girl also...: )

My experience with newborn and toddler. I had one of those strollers where the carseat fit into it. And the baby faced you. At 2 months we were out and she got very fussy and I couldn't get her to settle down, when I picked her up, she just looked around. I realized, eventually, she had to look. Now I am away from home with a 2 month old with this stroller. I had to put her on her belly, and then hold her with my hand, since she wasn't strapped in, so she could see where we were going. And I had to drag the stroller.

We were at the Harvard/Yale game a couple of weeks later. You think this is a place of giftedness. I lasted at the game for the photo op with her dad, then headed to the Charles Hotel to breast feed and wait for everyone post game. The bar is full and I went up to get some Perrier, and older women kept coming up to me about my daughter watching everyone in the room. I really didn't understand. Yes, she is watching? They mentioned the intensity of her gaze.

She rolled early, I do not know when, but she used it very early to get to places. I joined a mothers' group. We sat on a carpeted floor. As soon as I sat down and was getting comfortable, DD rolled across the circle to see who was on the other side -- 4 months.

She walked when she turned 11 months. almost to the day. But what I noticed is when she did something she was off to the races. I don't remember early words. But I do know she had 3 word sentences at 20 months and a vocabulary of close to 2000 words. I remember we were sort of keeping track because we were seeing if she was going to have a vocabularly of 200 words by her 2nd birthday, as suggested.

When she read her first word on her own (Dollar in the rental car store), she was 2.5 and sounded out one syllable then the next and put it together. Then she did it infrequently until she got close to 3, then it was spelling and sounding out one and two syllable words pretty regularly.

Her fact file is huge. That is what was most noticeable, her knowledge of different animals, places, words, and most importantly, princesses and their stories...

Ren

We have noticed the same thing with our daughter who just turned three. She is very selective about what she will do. If she is not interested she will start talking about something unrelated or she will leave. I worry how this would affect any formal testing we might have done in the future. I asked her to count to 20 for me yesterday and she got to about 12 and then trailed off and ran away to do something else. Then later that day she did 7 pages of addition in a new book she had picked out. Our local school wants us to have her screened, but I am worried that she might not cooperate.

Sweetie skyward,
Your DD may in fact not cooperate. But, Logically, that's not a reason to prevent having her screened at all. She may be quite uncooperative, and the screening might be a huge underestimate, and she might still qualify for the program.....

KWIM?
Grinity

Ok, I should have her screened it will be a good starting point and we will be able to find out more about the school. On A side point about toddlers, Proud mama. My one year old, almost 14 months went potty in the toilet yesterday, and we thought it was a fluke. Then today he took me in there and sat on the potty seat. So I took off his diaper and he went again, and then he clapped for himself. We gave him a sticker and made a big deal and he walked around the house showing everyone his little sticker. It was pretty cute.

Ok, I should have her screened it will be a good starting point and we will be able to find out more about the school. On A side point about toddlers, Proud mama. My one year old, almost 14 months went potty in the toilet yesterday, and we thought it was a fluke. Then today he took me in there and sat on the potty seat. So I took off his diaper and he went again, and then he clapped for himself. We gave him a sticker and made a big deal and he walked around the house showing everyone his little sticker. It was pretty cute.

Oh, that's so great!

Just be forewarned: a lot of the kids who start early get bored and quit with the potty along the way. Remember, it's a process, so don't be surprised if there's some backsliding.

We have pictures of my DS3 on the potty before he was 18mos, and it was all self-initiated. It just didn't take. He was trained in time for preschool, but just barely!

I still have to remind myself when he has an accident because he's too busy playing to stop and get to the bathroom: Process...process...process...

Hopefully this is NOT the case for you!

This is a great thread.

Mr W has surpassed all of his 12 mo milestones at 6 mos save walking and crawling. His first smile at us was four days after he was born - 5 weeks premature - and from then on its been off to the races.

He was and is EXTREMELY observant from 2 weeks on. We have yet to meet any child of any age who takes the time to look things over like he does.

This is an example:

When we took him for his 6 mos checkup, we did not talk to the Ped or the office staff about what we have seen. We wanted to see their reaction.

When the ped came in, Mr W was standing on the table, holding on to my shoulder.

He looked right at the Dr, looking her up and down, neither smiling, nor frowning, trying to recall where he had seen her before. He noted her files and observed as she wrote stuff down and then stared as she pulled out the opthamoloscope and the tongue depressor.

When she went to look into his throat, he snatched the tongue depressor from her hand and refused to let go of it, and once he had won the tug of war, he then looked it over.

"You ARE a little advanced, aren't you!" was her comment.

I love that 'studying' that the little ones do. My son made a similar study and grab for a cat's paw around that age, and I swear he was going to eat it.

Uh oh! What did the cat do?

Those observation skills come in handy. I lost something last night when walking with him. I took him this AM to look for it and he saw it when I did - or perhaps a few milliseconds before I did.

Hi, I'm new.

I'm a single grandma guardian to my exceptionaly bright 2 1/2 yr old granddaughter. She's memorized nearly all of her books (and we have a lot), knows every animal there is and the sounds they make, has an exceptional vocabulary, and will tell long stories, or describe (accurately) events she has seen, and understands, and tells, jokes and puns.

I'd like to have her tested, but don't know how to begin. I'm reading about a CAT test, and other stuff, but I don't know what they are or where I would go to have her tested.

She's also very agile with extraordinary balance (climbs pretty big trees, actually she'll climb nearly anything), loves the outdoors and examining and taling about everything.

I want to be sure that she achieves her maximum capabilities without losing the fun and joy in life - which right now is nearly everything (OK, except the potty.. she'll go a couple weeks just fine, then she'll get bored. She told me that she liked her diaper because she COULD pee in it and not interrupt her play!

Your suggestions on testing and finding good educational resources is most appreciated!

Welcome single grandma! I'm a custodial grandparent to a GS9(grandson 9yrs).

Later!

Love those grandmothers! Welcome!

"She told me that she liked her diaper because she COULD pee in it and not interrupt her play!"

Well, you have to admit, it is clever!


Welcome, this is a very interesting thread. I have not see the Ruf book, I will have to check it out.

Hi single g-ma!

My opinion is not to test til around 5 unless a compelling reason.
I think if you follow her interests and let her lead her learning, you can't lose!

Good luck and welome!

Don't tell her that Astronuats wear diapers for the same reason!!!

http://www.nsbri.org/HumanPhysSpace/focus4/spacephy.html