My daughter's school district uses the NWEA MAP tests 3x/year. My daughter is in 6th grade currently and her latest score was 232. Respectable enough for 6th grade, but the very first time she took the test in 2nd grade she scored 228. There's been scatter in the interim years between 219-239.

I've been following the pattern of her scores over the years and suspected ever so slight progress, but now that I look back at all the scores, there's really not been any considerable progress at all.

I'm not sure what to do, if I should talk to her teacher about it or what. The school district does not have a GT program and actually, my daughter is considered 2E. I would have expected much more growth than that for sure.

What is eating at me right now is that we have worked so hard over the years to get her some help in the areas that she has clearly had difficulty in (mostly to do with executive function, attention, but she also has a documented expressive language disorder but not by the school). I feel like we've neglected the other part of her and have failed her in doing so. What do we do now? I wish someone could just tell me what we need to do because I'm so tired of trying to figure it all out myself and reinvent the wheel.

Hi Mombot,
Does the teacher send any information with the MAP scores? For example, what the expected progress should be, etc.? If I were you, I would first meet with the teacher and ask her to discuss her thoughts on why your daughter doesn't appear to be making any progress, and hasn't since 2nd grade. I cannot address the 2E issues, because I'm not familiar with 2E issues, but has your DD had any issues with taking tests before? Do you see this as a possible 2E issue? Without the 2E, I would see this as a failure on the school's part to introduce your DD to new material. There is a link here, showing what you can expect your child to know at different levels of MAP: http://www.powayusd.com/projects/edtechcentral/lladder/Default.asp

There is an expected progression with MAPs each year, and if your DD's teacher doesn't know what that is, I suggest you contact the school's principal or the district curriculum coordinator.

ETA: The norms are here, appendix C, but still ask the school to explain their thoughts on why your DD isn't meeting these and what can be done: http://www.nwea.org/sites/www.nwea.org/files/resources/NWEA_2011_RIT_Scale_Norms.pdf

Edited again to say that Appendix B has the achievement tables. Was the score in Reading or Math?

This is always going to be an issue - there are only so many hours in a day. There is only so much time and money for any family to invest in any one family member. What is fair? What is reasonable?

St pauli girl's suggest to start with the teacher is a good one! It's possible that your daughter has learned quite a bit, but can't show what she knows due to the 2 E issues.

Has the school done IQ and achievement testing? What actual other diagnosises have been found? Do they seem 'right' to you? Keep posting here and we'll do the best we can, but the most efficient way to proceed is to hire a psychologist that specializes in psychoeducational evaluation. Look for one who
a) is familiar with Gifted Kids
b) is familiar with 2E kids
c) is willing to guide you how to best develop your DD's strengths, including talking to the school if necessary.

Good Luck! Remember that the hard work you have done must have worked pretty well for you to have enough slack to be worried about what you haven't done, right? Those gains are real and important. Now it's time to take the next step!
Grinity

Oh I'm sorry, it was in reading. They haven't done math yet. She does need extra time to complete tests - that could be part of it as she finished it along with the other kids when she usually takes much longer, now that I think about it. But, the overall pattern has been one of very little growth from 2nd to 6th grade if you look at the lowest score of 219 and compare it to the highest score of 239.

I do think I need to talk to the teacher, but I've brought so many concerns to them over the years about what she needs that now I feel like I am just badgering them! Need to get my nerve up.

Thank you for the links - I'll look at them after this.

Thank you, Grinity!

She has been evaluated, but not by anyone who specializes or is very familiar with 2E profiles and in the last eval that is glaringly obvious, but when you put all the reports together from the various professionals, you can see what she's like overall. Her full scale IQ puts her in the moderately gifted range, but this last cognitive eval does not indicate what the GAI is/could be. The school has only done testing on writing which showed high scores on paper (but if you take the fact that it took her nearly 9 hours over several sessions to complete one test, that should have been a red flag right there).

I'll have to gather my thoughts more so I can sound relatively coherent when I talk to the teacher.

232 in Reading is at the 68th percentile for spring testing for the 11th grade. I suspect she is not making progress because she is not getting instuction at a senior high level or above.

But it's 86th percentile for 6th grade, and I would hope schools have some plans for teaching kids at that level. The school should still give some response for what sort of progress they expect for students.

It could very well be that your DD it's a problem with the tests, if she usually needs more time. But it's definitely worth investigating. Besides the test results that are remaining stagnant, do you feel that your DD is learning new material each year? How has she been doing in school and how does she like it?

I think MAP "typical" growth is around 6 or 7 points a year - it should say on her NWEA progress report that the school should send home. If not, they can easily print it out and give it to you if you ask. I think even with just typical growth, she should be further along unless she is not taught anything at her level. I would be concerned if she was not making steady growth in each year. If she does not test well, that may explain it too, but MAPs are not timed so she should be allowed all the time she needs. You might also want to see how she did in the subtests of the reading portion to see if you can pinpoint any issues.

My DS 3rd grade is taking NWEAs this week. He has been taking them 3 times a year too. I think 3 times a year is a lot of testing. He has had nice steady increases each test especially in math. He did have a 3 pt drop in Language on the winter test. I am not worried at all but it is the first time he was out of the 99% bracket. This was also reflected on the EXPLORE test. We are talking with him on keeping a journal. He kind of thinks its fun, he use to write in one pretty regularly. Not sure what else to do.

I have come to the conclusion, to keep up with him it is going to have to be done at home after school and weekends. I would expect a slow down unless you are really working on it. But what do I know...

I do understand your feelings of facing it all by yourself.

My DS, in 4th grade, has had a 239 in NWEA MAP reading for over a year now. I've studied the NWEA progression quite significantly over the last two years.

What you're seeing is simply a lack of instruction at her level. The 230s+ on the reading test require a LOT of reading instruction and literature analysis to move beyond that level. For example, students need to be able to differentiate between irony, satire and humor, to recognize and identify types of propaganda (bandwagon, plainfolk etc) and to identify several types of logic arguments in context (strawman, circular etc.)

Most students at a middle school level would not encounter these lessons in their regular language arts classroom.

There is no reason, under normal conditions, that it should take her that long to take a regular NWEA test. The tests are cumulative and she would not have to go back to the beginning and start over after the first time she tests. It should start her one level below her previous MAP score and work up. I would look at 2E issues, the testing environment (alone? other kids? distractions in the room? interruptions?) and also how much pressure was placed on the kids relating to the test. Last year, my son's teacher told them that if they didn't meet their growth goals as a class, she would be fired.

Also, the test was recently renormed last year. The percentiles seem to be pretty different in the 80+ range. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples when you look at reports from different sessions.

How does her expressive language disorder impact her? I only ask because there are so many different ways that it might - my ds12 has an expressive language disorder which obviously impacts his written expression, but I also find it seems to (I think) sometimes impact him with the tasks that might be associated with reading comprehension tests.

I'm not familiar with the MAP tests so can't help you there, but with the reading tests my ds has had over the years, he seems to be somewhat "losing" progress - he's progressing, but the percentile levels he tests at have gradually gone down over the years. With him, I suspect it's a combination of both how he's able to express his knowledge on the test combined with a bit of 2e-ness re the actual understanding of how to summarize or pull together what he's reading. He has some quirky behaviors when it comes to reading, even though he reads at an extremely high level and takes in very detailed information. It gets really difficult to tease out what's happening with kids who are so bright yet 2e.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Wow. It's amazing that she can get a FSIQ in the moderately gifted range even with her LDs. It takes a very large amount of innate intelligence to be able to do that.

Do her scores fall in a way that she meets DYS cut offs?

If her testing is recent, you can ask (pay) for a 'chart review' from a tester who is more familiar with 2E kids, and get results over the phone. It is really confusing.

At a few points I've found it helpful to journal about various family members educational paths. It's quite possible that your little apple didn't fall far from the family tree, and that you or your family or her dad's family are full of many examples of very very bright folks who weren't identified as gifted due to their LDs. When I get that feeling that I just 'can't do it' and or 'I've gotten it all wrong' or 'I just don't know where to start' that is usually something I can fix with journaling on topics that are slightly larger than the topic that has me feeling yucky.

Good Luck,
Grinity

Please know I'm not nitpicking here, but I'm curious what you mean by this Grinity? I'm asking as the parent of a 2e kid with multiple challenges who's FSIQ, while definitely lower than his GAI, is still very high (this is my ds12)... so my first thought when I read it was, why would you be surprised by a high FSIQ just because a child has LDs. I'm actually quite curious about this as my dd8 has challenges with associative memory and does not test as high on IQ as I'd expect her to based on her achievement in areas that aren't impacted by her challenges, and based on her verbal demonstrations of thinking ability. I'm not surprised by her scores on memory-related subtests, but her range of scores on other tests seems odd when compared to her academic achievements and how quickly she learns.

polarbear

She's not identified via the school at all, but she does get private ST every other week. I haven't thought about her expressive language skills affecting her reading comprehension in the ways that you mention, but it makes a lot of sense! I'll ask her SLP the next time we see her.

As for test-taking - she is a very slow test-taker (except for math) and her 504 states that she gets at least time and a half for tests. So, with that in mind, I had this feeling that there was something more to her test score. I asked her if she rushed through her test so she could finish with her friends and sure enough, my instincts were right.

So, this most recent score is even less accurate than what it could be. btw, I don't look at each individual score, I look at the pattern that the scores present and overall, her rate of progression is relatively flat. I don't have any idea of what her lexile might be right now since we don't get the reports from school.