Been trying to figure how to get the school to understand that my dd9 needs more. There is no gifted program and they "will not and do not skip"...so, I was hoping her CMT scores would back me up...I'm wondering how much pull they have with adminitration...

She got advanced in all areas.

Math (100-400) she got a 378
raw core of 105 out of 106


Reading (100-400) she got a 311
raw score of 35 out of 40

Degrees of reading power Unit Score = 79 (hoping someone from CT can tell me what this is about)

Writing (100-400) She got 400!

Direct Assessment of Writing Holistic Score (2-12) She got 12.

R these good? Obviously they are good...I guess what I'm asking...is are they good enough to use as evidence for further testing?

I looked at the district % and it looks like although 30% of our district (120 kids)scored "advanced" only 8% got a 12 on the Direct Assessment of Writing...which looks like about 10 kids...compared to the state % which was 3% of kids in the state scored a 12...

It's hard to know HOW advanced they scored. But 30% advanced seems to be a LOT of kids which makes me think this is not a good test to bring up to the admins...

If she is "as gifted" as I think she is, should she have gotten perfect scores on everything?

Thank you Connecticut people!

Exactly - tests of this nature 'show' that she's in good company - 'Golly - 3% scored just like her - she's got that good handful of peers'

Well - not if the test stops so low that it can't discriminate between 'top 3% and top 0.3%

Next year you can pull out the SAT prep book and gauge if she ready to sit down with the High School Seniors and give it a whirl. (Lots of PGlets really aren't ready until age 12 - but some are ready earlier)

That should make their eyes pop.

Meanwhile the Math score might be worth finding out how many kids in her class scored that high...and try and make a case for subject acceleration.

JHU's CTY Is worth an afternoon...you go to a local computer testing center - say on Vetran's Day and spend an hour waiting while your DD takes their test.

It won't help with the school folks either, but does open the door to some cool weekend activities and online classes for enrichment.

A really key thing to find out is - are their real peers for my daughter in her current grade. If so, offering an afterschool activity such as 'Junior Great Books' yourself might be the way to go. If not - that's a whole different challenge.

Here's another idea - if possible, ask the school to give her CMTs for kids 2 grades ahead of her, and ask them to see how her scores compare to those kids. If she scores in the 'top 30%' advanced for kids 2 grades ahead, it might give them the security to skip her a single grade.

Keep posting, I'll try and keep coming up with ideas...
Grinity

Thanx!

I registered her with CTY and have a number and everything...just trying to save the %55! I know, I know...but ya know?

She is in Ballet - 4 classes a week with kids who are older than her...and many of them are smart...

Dancing is her "thing"....I know that they have a Math olympiads thing at the school...just waiting to hear more about it.

My friend's 12 year old son is taking algebra II this year...another district..

He is bussed to the highschool for math in the morning and then back to middle school for the rest of the day. The highschool starts earlier, so he is in school longer than the rest of the kids. I guess he has another child who does it with him and it works out well. ANYWAY, he helped me to figure out the CMT scores on the phone last night. He was so happy for my dd9. He pulled out his 3rd grade scores and found that she did a little better than him in everything...Rather than feeling competative, he seemed so happy to have someone to share with. He wants to get skype going and offered to to tutor her on Skype everyday after school...in Math...HOW cute! To see his enthusiasm is amazing. I just want that for my daughter - before she shuts down. So, that might be just the thing.

We also have a friend in another St whose dd 5 isn't adjusting so well to kindergarten. Maybe my DD9 can give her little Skype (am I spelling that right?) lessons!

We might have a thing here!

Thanx for you thoughts Grinity...any idea what the DRP of 79 indicates. I think it's really high, but I can't figure out how high..

Thanks Kcab! Yes..that is where I looked...We only have one school in our district..so, I have a good idea of the %...with 120 kids it's pretty small too!

The state % for advanced comes out at 30%
for our school. It's 31 %...So, our school doesn't seem to be "way up there" - except for in writing.

I didn't notice the lare range for advanced. Thanks for pointing that out. Since she only missed ONE of the math problems (prolly the one she 'went back to fix' I'd say she would be among the top scorers in the advanced cat...but who knows. Maybe most of the 'advanced' kids got perfect scores. I wonder if the school would know, or give me that info.

These DRP scores have me confused. The chart says that a 79 is like 12th grade or whatever...I seriously doubt that in 45 minutes they tested all the kids as far up to 12th grade!

I assume the tests get harder every year, so what does the 79 mean? From what I understand, they test until they comprehend less that 70% of what they are reading. So, with a 70% comprehension she is reading at a 79...WHAT THE *** is a 79!

That's amazing that your DD did so well on the SATs...how old was she when she took it? Maybe I am underestimating my DD, but taking SATs seems crazy to me. Don't you need a huge vocabulary to do well? With all those bird:fly::ant:......things...I can't imaging her knowing enough vocab to do well on that!

I saw a comparison of the DRP somewhere...it said that 59% of our district scored 50 (something) which was as high as they went. I can't find ANYTHING that interprets a score from a third grader of 79...It's making me crazy. AND IF it is as high as it seems, should the teacher be calling to tell me that she is aware of DD9's reading level and will be looking for ways to challenge her in the classroom...?

I wonder if the reading teacher is willing to take back her comment to DD at the open house...The one where she told DD that she must not really be reading if she is reading a book a day. She must just be skimming.

So the school doesn't care about the perfect writing score? Do they even look at those do you think?

I also think that it's weird that she got sort of a 'low' score in reading...311 (100-400) with a DRP that seems so high...

I wonder if the level of instruction she received last year in reading (way below her level) is hindering her from performing better on standerdized testing...hmmmm...just thinking outloud! Thanks for listening.

How do you even sign up you 10 (or whatever) year old to take SATs...and what if she bombs...Does the school then think I'm nuts and then not work with me on anything ever again?

Too bad about CTY scores not doing anything for the school...

They do some sort of 'gifted testing' this year in grade 4. Not sure what it is...trying to find out online but can't seem to find it. It's a group test and I believe it is administered to everyone. You only get notified if your child 'is gifted'. But they don't really offer anything to the kids on the list. They do keep them in mind, though, if anything should come up that would interest them. The give them jobs...like speeking at events and such. It doesn't seem to help with their education though. I was told NO on harder homework. I STILL can't get over that!

Oh, okay..I see. They have to comprehend 75% starting in fifth grade...and then 80% later....So, The score would go down, even if it was the same reading material, the higher up you get in grade level.

So a 79 would translate into something lower if a 5th grader took the test.

But I still don't understand what level they are giving them to read. I understand that the DRP is used in DD's school as a way for the school to assess reading levels...to choose books and teaching materials. It is not just for the State test (NCLB) so, I am working hard to figure it out...I suspect I will need to understand this while advocating for her.

Any age below 13 the way to sign up for the SATs -
Go to the guidance office at any high school and ask for a SAT booklet. You will see a scannable application in the middle - fill it out and mail it to College Board company.

My son couldn't bear to sit through it at 11, but loved the experience at age 12 and 13. The school won't see the scores unless you show them, and the scores magically dissapear each June. So you don't have to worry about doing harm. I wouldn't send a 9-11 year old unless they had already done a practice test at home and scored at least 500.

I think the Skype idea has promise.

I've forgotten - do you have WISC scores? Do you have an idea of 'my child is way different than peers' or 'there is a whole mini-group with similar needs who isn't getting their needs met?'

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Just have Woodcock Johnson scores...overall 99.6 with 99.9 in some areas..(writing/spelling)...She was reading words at 2, sentances at 3, books at 4 and chapter books at 5...at 18 months she was doing what seemed to me like kindergarten stuff. Writing letters and numbers and using the computer like a 1st or 2nd grader..loading Blues Clues...for preschool and doing level 3 easily before age 2. I saved a picture she drew when she was 3.5 of me giving birth to her sister...no she wasn't there...lol..but my hunch is that she IS a little above what is normally bright...but I also suspect that she is not so far above, that just being with normally bright students would be enough.

She is not making friends - real friends in our new town. There are many kids she rides around with from the neighborhood, but she seems so disconnected from them. She used to be a leader. I had to teach her to do this without being bossy. She just had so many great ideas for plays to put on and stories to write. I think she has learned that the kids around here aren't into that stuff, so she just rides around with them on her bike, listens to them, laughs at their jokes, and she shares close to nothing with them. She seems so lonely to me. And embarassed to do anything that might seem smart in front of them. She still likes to be smart for me though ...

I sometimes see her spark when she plays with older kids...a year or two older. The other day she was playing with a 5th grade boy from down the street. He taught her to play Pokemon..Then, he played another game with her (I forgot which one). She was so happy and bright-eyed. That only happens once every 6 months.

She is usually shy with boys, so I know that she must have been really interested to put the whole boy thing aside.

I talk too much. Anyway...sigh. I love this forum!

Just had Open House...lots of parents stayed to ask questions..so I lingered. The teacher wanted to talk and talk..so I asked her what a 79 DRP ment...She said that my daughter is a good tester.

I let her know that I have a hard time knowing which books dd should be reading because her reading level is so high but her comprehension is only a 5th grade (topped out at 5th) and she told me that if she can't support her inferences with facts from the story then she shouldn't be reading the higher books.

But is was funny for her to look through her book at dd's scores over and over again as if they couldn't be possible...and she checked other people's scores to see if she was reading them right...everytime she looked at a good score, including the perfect in writing, she just said that she obviously can read anything you give her, but she can't read it in her class if she can't write a clear essay on the main events.

I told her I thought it was a comunication problem, not knowing what is expected of her. She told me that it was a reading problem. Hmmm.

My DD came home from school today very sad. I guess she was harsh with her. DD stood up to hand in her cursive assignment..because she finished it early and she snapped at her to sit down. She then went to her desk and told her to write "Done in 12 minutes" on it. So she did and then she waited for the time to run out. Nobody else finished the assignment. Speaking with her, it was obvious that she had no idea what DD's scores were. I have a feeling she will either come around and treat DD as the brilliant reader that she is, or find ways to push her down throughout the school year, to prove that she is "just a good test taker."

I asked DD if she wants to be homeschooled. She said No. It's gunna be a rough year. On the plus side...the Math teacher was pretty cool and I got the book to bring home...they might go really slow through it, but she doesn't know everything in it. Everyday Math sure has a strange way of presenting things, but it might go over well with her.

I don't know if this link will help, maybe you have already seen it.
http://www.questarai.com/products/drpprogram/pages/drp_scoring.aspx

The
Sample DRP Individual Student Performance Chart (PDF)
has some sample scors.

We signed our oldest up through WATS/RMATS (our local talent search) when she was in middle school. She took the SAT twice, at ages 10 and 11 and she didn't do the practice tests at home before b/c it is hard to talk her into doing that type of stuff. She still wound up in that 500+ area in critical reading and writing. I do think that having taken the EXPLORE the year earlier through talent search prepped her for the idea of a hard test, though. I, too, probably wouldn't have sent a kid that age to test on the SAT if she had no prior above level testing experience, but I don't know that I'd hold fast to a certain point on a practice test in order to consider the real test.

So, I looked back at your prior thread on your dd9 and see that your dd is a 4th grader. When does she turn 10 and is there no possibility of a full grade skip even if you had to change schools to make that happen? My dd13 (just turned!) skipped 5th grade and was starting 6th just before her 10th bd. It worked really beautifully in terms of a better social and academic fit.

I don't think that a child needs to be at or above the 99th percentile in everything in order to do very well with a skip although it sounds like your dd is pretty much there. When a child gets to that point, it is so much easier to make adjustments for the areas where she is even further ahead if she's full grade accelerated.

She turns 10 in April. The school in against any grade skips. In sixth grade a child can test into pre-algebra...and that's that. Other school options? Hmmm...not without moving...but I should look into magnet schools in the area...We just moved here last year...I would hate to have to move her around more...but I guess once it's done and she's happy, it might seem worth it. I just wish there were guarentees...ya know? She just told me that she was using the wide side of the marke to make a thick line while labeling a folder and the teacher asked her if she knew how to hold her pencil. My poor baby.

just left a voice mail for the "gifted coordinator at the school. Not sure why I didn't think of this before. I guess because they don't have a gifted program and she hasn't yet been id as "gifted" because they don't do that yet...but IF there is a GC, which there does seem to be, since I just left her a voice mail, then maybe I can request a pull-out for her for LA. She would sill have the teacher for homeroom, but maybe she will still like to read when the year is done if she is pulled out for LA...

I doubt they will do it, but since there isn't really a program in place yet, maybe they will be willing to work with us on this.

Is there a particular way to approach the personality problem between the LA teacher and my daughter? Are there things I shouldn't say - like - "I don't think the teacher likes smart kids." Or, "My daughter is scared to anything in her class." I know that pointing out social issues helps the cause...but the only social issue she is having at them moment is with the teacher...knocking her down...and making her feel stupid over and over again.

She also doesn't have ANY close friends, but she doesn't seem to be THAT bothered by that. She doesn't really click with anyone although they all like her.

I've been told skipping isn't going to happen, asking to switch teacher almost never happens (besides, her switch teacher for Math is pretty cool. I would hate to see her lose her.)

But with her high tests scores on the CMT's I might be taken seriously by the GC to help provide services for her...hopefully OUTSIDE the negative classroom. I still can't help feel sorry for the poor kids who are stuck with this woman and MAY me struggling readers...hearing over and over that they need to WORK on reading...

I told the teacher DD9 was coming from a Montessori background and she said something like..."NO wonder she likes to read! Well, we will fix that!" Something like that..it was more.."No wonder she likes to read, but we can make her understand what she is reading at our school." Mind you, this woman has NEVER seen anything my child has read or wrote and doesn't even know her name that well.

So, here's to putting all my eggs in the GC's basket...:)

This test almost sounds like our California state STAR test. My son got in the "advanced" part on both math and reading. 63% of his classmates did that for math and 45% did it for reading.
These tests are not designed to differentiate those at the top level. I took it to mean, my son is above grade level, doing well. It doesn't tell me how far he is above grade level just by this.

Have you considered part time homeschooling? IF the situation is not looking good in December you could consider doing a trial Homeschool for half a year and see how she likes it.

My kids did not want to change schools, because of the distance and friends. I made the final decision, saying we would try it for a year. They are much happier in their gifted school.

Are there any other school around that you could drive her to? Some private schools have finacial aide if that is an issue.

Have you found a state or area gifted association? They may have ideas for helping her.

How about applying to Davidson?

I guess I was thinking that with her Woodcock Johnson writing score at 99.9% Plus the CMT score of perfect...not only on her narrative promt, but with her editing and revising portion, plus her DIBLES score at like 179...throughout 2nd and 3rd grade when goal was 50-90 wpm. Plus her DRP score of 79 when goal was 40? or 45? I would have a leg to stand on.

The CMT is just one more test that shows her abilities and it's a test they care about.

Is this an good social/emotional topic to share?
DD has been trying to get the teacher to see her as bright as year last year. She would reduce fractions or produce more anwers that were always correct, but marked wrong because the directions didn't say to expand on your answer.

This would make her sad and frustrated.

She had to re-read many many books that she had read in second grade, in class at her old school, which was discouraging because she feels like she is not making progress.

The feels like no matter how hard she works or how well she does, she will not be allowed to advance.

Toward the end of last year, she began showing her frustration and a little rebelion by doing her assignments as a mirror image.

She was frustrated in group lessons because everyone wanted to be in her group so they could sit back and let her do all the work and expect her to represent the group perfectly. When she didn't, (even in soccer in gym class) they would 'yell' at her.

Toward the end of the year she started to get anwers wrong in Math because she stopped reading the directions. This lead the teachers to believe that she was having trouble with the concepts, which led her into a deeper feeling of frustration and relion.

She feels like no matter how she does in school, she will not be able to move on and has begun to stop bothering to do well.

Her grades don't matter to her because she doesn't work for them.
A child will protect a LEGO creation from their friends. They will put it on a shelf...because they made it. They worked hard on it. It is a piece of them. They will leave a store bought toy on the floor to be stepped on.

This is the same for DD with her work. She doesn't have to work hard on her work and doesn't care what happens to it.

She has begun going to the bathroom all the time. This is something she does when she is nervous. She does it after she goes to bed and only on school nights.

She was given advanced homework in Math last year and this worked very well. She was also given it in class several times only it wasn't taught to her. So she hid the reference book in fear that it would be taken away if she didn't already know how to do it. She taught herself and got the paper right. This was an assignment she cared about and checked her grade.

She hasn't made any close friends and seems to tune out among kids her age. She used to be a leader. She had close friends a year older in her class at her old school and she was a kind, interested and creative leader.

She is shutting down and I think some work at her level in Reading and maybe Math would go miles to show her that the school is on her side and that the school likes when she goes beyond what is expected of her. I think that she would feel validated as a thinker and her spark might re-ignite!

Please GC, pull my daughter out of 4th grade LA so she can advance at her readiness level and feel good about herself and her learning style again!

Maybe I should email that to her...I am better and emails than in person because I get frustrated and off topic.

I wonder if I should be pushing for further testing instead...I guess if they need it they will let me know. I already asked for testing. They said no last year. But it's another year, another school...(Middle School..yes...4th grade is Middle School here.)

Thanks for letting me draft my thoughts here. Please feel free to tell me to stop posting! It helps so much for me to just write it down...and doing it here is so nice cause I might get some nice advice too!

Chelsea
Mother to DD9, and DD6.

You have great advice. Thank you.
Yes the school goes through 8th. There are 120 students in the 4th grade class. Her class is very large compared to other classes. DD6's 1st grade has 80.

I don't have too much stuff to show. I like to get rid of stuff.
Especially work that you have to read in a mirror. lol.

I've added some comments and given you a push to keep to 'just the facts, Mam' I think a combination of email plus face to face is best. Perhaps to set up a meeting and email something like this the night before, then read it to her at the meeting so you can see her face, and monitor how the communication is going. Some points may hit her hot buttons, and you should know to avoid them in the future. Some points may hit the positive hot buttons and you need to amp those up. Some parts just might not be in words that make a full enough picture for her, and you need to see her face to know that also. But write it up, print it out and read it. Say - I have a lot of concerns, sorry I didn't come forward earlier, but it's sort of snowballed on me. Do you mind if I read through my list first before we discuss further?

I think It's fine to ask for testing - Base that on your feelings: for example -"It makes me sad to see my DD slipping away, and I feel like a failure as a parent when I see her rotten attitude towards school. Can you help me get my happy little girl back? Would testing be useful to reveal what in the world is going on?"

Lots and lots of this is right on target. I bolded the stuff that I think will resonate with the GC, so frame those parts. Remember to cry if it makes you feel like crying - another reason to do this face to face. It makes me feel like crying. Showing vulnerable emotions is one mode of communication that is sure to touch the heart.

I think this could work. I think that if it doesn't then going through this process might motivate you to find another option, as it sure looks to me like you need one if you possibly can manage it.

Love and more love,
Grinity

Grinity, you are such a huge help. I will fill in the blanks tomorrow when the girls are at school!

The bathroom thing started when she was entering kindergarten...she was checked and double checked. It is something that is calle..Polykiuria..(spelling)...diagnosed by the doc....or rather me, then confirmed by the doc, who hase since passed away.

Research says it only lasts about 6 months, which it did, but then it comes back during times of stress. It bothers her so much. She controls it well and as she gets older, she asks me if I think she really has to go to the bathroom or if it is just that thing. If I tell her that she just went 5 minutes ago, she decides it would be a waste of time to go. But when she was 5, she wasn't mature enough to think it through and would go 10 times in 20 minutes. It was so sad. I was able to get her through it (after many doc visits) by telling her that ALL kids did this when they turned 5 and they they ALL grow out of it. It helped a real lot. It stopped after being really bad for 6 months...that week...but hints of it come up when she starts school or is under stress.

Funny though, Ballet shows don't do it to her..Hmmm.

Thank you for being so thoughtful!

Chelsea

ps...I saw on another post you suggested ALEKS.com...and trial...I just had DD9 try the 5th grade assessment. She did great in number sense - looks like about 80% and it looks like she knew about a quater in the other subjects..She was never taught a lot of that stuff. She told me she wants us to buy it because "I'm worried that the teachers don't make me do stuff in school because I already know it, but they don't teach me more so I think I'm going to get behind." lol...that was so cute of her to be thinking about her education. Makes me smile.
Chelsea

That's a great example of a story to illustrate the problem...I know it's 'cute' but remember that humor comes from a contrast of aspects we don't expect to see together. One doesn't expect a person in a child's body and life experience to be worried about their education, but that is the key of what asynchronous development is all about - it's stressful to a person with a child's body and life experience and emotional development to be saddled with adult concerns, such as the meaning of life and responsibility for the development of one's gifts. Tell the story but tell it as a poinant example of how she isn't getting her needs met, and feel compelled to do what the grown ups are supposed to being doing. This is just as sad a kid her age who has to cook dinner and discipline the younger kids because the parents are too impaired to do the adult role. (Although thankfully less constant and global for your DD)

On one hand we get funny looks and people ask us 'why don't you just let her be a kid?' - but on the other hand, the only way to protect a child from assuming a role that is meant for adults is to find a way to get her the challenge she needs. How else are we supposed to 'let her be a kid' if the schools and parents don't work together to find a way to take back the role of planning her education?

I don't mean this as criticism of you sydness - I've BTDT and stifled back many a smile at the 'cute' things my son has said more times than I could count, but he was able to share with me how much he hated it that I expected him to be 'kidlike' in certain areas where he just wasn't. I know that you would present this story to the school in a totally urgent and serious way, I just have the feeling that there is a lurker reading this thread that really needs to hear that we have to take our children at the multi-levels that they are. ((Lurker, are you out there and want to step forward?))

We all do it, and we all look back with regret that things couldn't have been better. We all did the best we could have when balancing the whole bundle of family needs. The only consolation I have it 'For the Grandchildren!' - I really really expect things to be much easier for all of our Grandchildren. I believe that more of us understand the problem and are ready to find solutions. Things like Aleks are great peeks at the future solutions our Grandchildren will take as normal. You Go Sydness for allowing your DD to run free with Aleks!!!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I must have DH read this! You sound like an amazing person...Maybe YOU be a child advocate...get paid...I would pay you to come to school with me! I'm all alone...even my mom thinks I'm crazy (thinks DD is crazy smart) but thinks nothing of school...didn't for me either. Sad..

Seriously though..

Oh...my. Just talked to the GC...Nothing. She did sympathize with the being told to hold her pen like a 4th grader (while she was making broad strokes for design purposes)....and seems to understand that my daughter is in the wrong classroom with the wrong teacher. She offered to talk to the teacher about it..I said no thank you. I was hoping for a pull-out.

GC wondered why I was complaining so early in the year (5th day of school) I told her that after speaking with her teacher, I could tell that she had little experience working with children like my daughter and although DD scored perfect and above grade level in all things reading (way above) the teacher suggested that she was just good at taking tests. I explained that since the teacher doesn't seem to believe that it is possible for a child to read at my DD's level, I don't see how she is a good fit to teach my DD..She again questioned me as to how I know that so early in the year. I told her that the teacher told me and my daughter that anyone reading that much isn't really reading.
Again, she understood that was not a good thing to say.

I told GC that my DD needs to be able to be happy for herself for accomplishing and learning. GC added to that..."and not demeaned." I was like..."Yeah!"

She may be pulled out for Science at some point. I guess there are topic pull-outs too. So a group of kids can get pulled and work on a project...Didn't seem very used though.

I found out that they use the Otis Lennon test to ID the kids.
She also reminded me that the State of CT is not required to provide serviced to gifted children...

Seriously WHY does this stuff make me sooooooo crazy!

What is the Otis Lennon? Does my creative, logical, with like 0 spatial reasoning skills kid have any chance with this test?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otis%E2%80%93Lennon_School_Ability_Test

I gotta go, but start here.
((wink))
Grinity

Kcab...We picked this town for the school system. The CT gifted site lists a really good curriculum compacting option, plus other gifted options. It's all a lie. The school is perfect for my 1st grader so far. I just can't allow myself to think we made THAT BIG of a mistake yet. Still trying to make it work.

On the plus side. The LA teacher (after the phone call with GC?) asked DD9 what book she was reading for independent reading and asked her to what it was about. DD9 said she gave her a short version. She is reading Behind the Bedroom Wall. I think it is only a 4th Grade level book, but the content is a good starter book for learning about Nazi Germany. We got a lot more books about that subject. I hope the low reading level of the book she is reading doesn't make teacher think that's how high she can go. I think it is a very popular book. She had never heard of it. But she asked! That is a great first step! It made DD9 feel like she was being...noticed! It doesn't take a LOT for a teacher to make a student feel good about herself.

OMG! So, the LA teacher called me today. She asked me to bring some sample of DD9's work and her WJIII scores in. They are going to have a meeting about her. The LA teacher, Math teacher and VP.
When I had the meeting with the VP last year about placement for this year, she didn't even want to look at the stuff I brought!

What changed? Has DD been inspired by the middle school atmosphere to put her best foot forward? I wonder if my squeeky-ness made them observe her a little more closely and maybe they noticed she might be ready for more!

Now, I'm doubting all my samples and even the WJ scores.
She got a 99.6 overall, but she only got 72% in math fluency. Her 99.9's were in writing and spelling. Will they notice the applied problems at 95%? which for some reason is in the very advanced catagory with the 99%'s...
She also scored 'low' in Math calculation...92%...

I still don't get these scores..
Total achievement is advanced at 99.6%
Broad reading advanced at 97%
Broad Math Advanced at 96%

Broad Written Lanuage Very advanced 99.9
Academic skills Very advanced at 99%
Academic applications Very advanced at 99%

Academic fluency advaned at 95%
Math calc skills Average to advanced at 92%
Written expression 99.9%


Letter word ID Very advanced at 95%
Reading Fluency Advanced at 98%
Calculation Advanced at 94% (is this dif than math calc?)

Math fluency average 72%

Spelling very advanced 99%

Writing fluency advanced 93%
Passage comprehension advanced 86%

Applied problems Very advanced at 95%

Writing samples very advanced 99.9%

I don't feel like this is as good as I thought it was when she fist did it.

But she hasn't been taking online stuff and hasn't been being challenged at school. Maybe an ability test would come back higher. idk...

I posted some of this somewhere...DD9 wrote this last year in third grade..She is adding to it sometimes...
What do you think? A good piece to bring in? I have thrown away most of her stuff.
She wants to send it to J.K Rowling to see if she will use her ideas for Harry Potter book 8. lol..

Lily Potter and the Survivor�s Cave
CHAPTER 1

The morning sunlight shone brightly down upon Lily Potter�s bed. Lily, an eleven-year-old girl with long, bright orange hair just like her mother, was sleeping deeply. Both her brothers, Albus and James, had dark black hair. Lily suddenly awoke to the sound of her mother calling, �Lily! Come down! The express leaves at exactly 10:00. We have to hurry because YOU can�t apparate! The Kings Cross station is four hours away. Hurry Albus, James�� Lily scrambled out of bed and out into the hallway. She was so exited! She was going to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. It�s a boarding school, so you must pack. THAT�S when Lily remembered-she forgot her luggage. THAT�S when she remembered a summoning charm her father, Harry had taught her.�Accio trunk!� she said wearily. A big wooden trunk came soaring down the staircase and landed with a thump next to her. �Wow!� said Lily �It actually works! Next, she tried making it float with the Wingardiam Leviosa charm. All her trunk did was shift a little in place. Those were all the charms and spells her mother and father had taught her, but she knew she was to learn many more at Hogwarts, like Expelliarmes and Impedimenta. Lily hopped down the stairs all the way to the bottom. �Oh there you are,� said Mrs. Potter. �Breakfast is on the table.� Lily was starving as she sat down to eat. �Pumpkin pasties for breakfast?� asked Lily. �Well, being it�s the first day at Hogwarts, I thought a little treat would be fine,� said Mr. Potter proudly. �oh, and Albus, I know you don�t like them so here�s some every flavored beans instead.�Borty Bots Every Flavored Beans were a favorite at Hogwarts. �BLAH! EWW! YUCK! Earwax!� a painful scream came from the other end of the table. �Albus, you�re just making that up because Dumbledore the greatest headmaster at Hogwarts EVER said it to dad after he fought the Basilisk.�Lily said sounding very annoyed. �no, really! Its true! I got anEarwax flavored bean! Really, you should believe me�� Lily was not amused. She grabbed one end of the table cloth and yanked it off the table, sending silverwear flying; forks, knives, spoons; plates, bowles and everything on the table: all now flying in the air. Ginny, Lily�s mother cried one word, �Impedimenta!� everything that was about to shatter to the ground was now floating dreamily through the hemisphere. With another flick of her wand, Mrs. Potter set everything back on the table. �Lily! Excuse me! We do not throw things into the air at any rate! Do you understand?� Lily was awestruck. What had she done wrong? Had she even taken a look at these, these people? �er, I�m sorry, what?� �REMEMBER WHAT YOU JUST DID?� �Im sorry whatever you�re name is but I have clearly no Idea what you are talking about, or where I am� oh, do you live here? Its such a nice cozy place.� �Harry!� exclaimed Mrs. Potter, �I think someone�s� wiped her memory!� everyone was quite silent for a moment, then Lily said, �what the that mean?� �Gamblia!� cried Mr. Potter. Lily was finally back to normal. �but� but Harry, I thought there was no counter curse for memory wiping?� �oh, I made that one up in case of an emergency.� �well great thinking done on you�re part.�
The whole family ate in silence for the rest of the meal. When It was 10:30, everyone started gathering their luggage. Lily realized she had forgotten her wand and started back to the kitchen when she heard a sort of� whispering voice in the walls. She told herself she was just imagining things and went on. A few minutes later, something burst behind her. Lily whipped her head around. A large snake was contentedly swerving through the walls. �the basilisk!� Lily thought to herself. Mrs. Potter had told her about her attack by the basilisk at Hogwarts, held in the chamber of secrets. �g-go back t-to the ch-chamber of secrets, where y-you belong! Now!� Lily screamed at the confused Basilisk. She was surprised when her voice came out as a cold whisper. The giant snake dove through the floor, downstairs, the basement, and underground. Lily checked her watch. 10 minutes till 10:00! Lily rushed downstairs, out the door, and into the flying car. �Lily, what took you so long?�asked Mrs. Potter, as Mr. Potter reved up the engine. �Uh� well, there was this� thing and...it was like a� snake�but huge� so I thought it was the�basilisk and I told it to� go back to the chamber of secrets only� It kinda came out like a whisper� and the Basilisk listened to me and� what I want to know is� WHY DID IT LISTEN TO ME?� Lily demanded to know.

That's a side effect of hanging around here for a while - but don't sweat it - the scores are strong, and in combination with a child who is presenting a mismatch between classroom level and readiness level, supports the idea of looking further.

Good Luck - take notes - send 'Thank you' emails with your notes.

Smiles,
Grinity

Kcab...they want me to bring stuff in for their meeting without me. So they can look at it before our meeting.

Yes. She typed it...that's what she typed. I cut and pasted it. Since the teacher thinks DD couldn't possibly comprehend above grade level material, I thought it was a good way to show her that even though DD read most of the Harry Potter books in second grade, she is comprehending enough expand on it.

I really am at a loss here. I'm having problems knowing what is average work and what is an example of her above level work.

I like the idea of having do something for this. Hmm. Thanks for your comments...and yes...Grinity..I do need to stop reading about all your little geniouses! I do truely like to read about them...like my kids or not!

I dropped of the stuff today. Some scattered Math stuff, some really detailed pictures...one she drew when she was 4 of a girl in a wheel chair in a room with a crazy amount of detail. Another, when she was 5 of the inside of a house with a setup in every room - even a toilet room under the stairs...
I sent some poetry, her Harry Potter story, a long story she wrote when she was in first, in her own hand writing...three pages long - reg. ruled. And some other stuff.
I'll let you know what happens and what they found interesting, if anything.

Hmm. I think I am late to this discussion, but there isn't dates anymore on these posts so . . .

I think you are better off focused on providing the school with more recent documentation from 3rd grade timeframe. What she did as a prescholer and kindergartener aren't really relevant at this point. Children, even normally developing ones, make huge leaps in 1st, 2nd and 3rd grades.

I do like the Potter extension and think that shows creative skills. Incidentally, that's the type of assignments that our "pre-GT" (2nd grade) and GT (3rd grade and above) track classes provide. So if you have more of that, I would think that would be more persuasive to the school.

Just an update....still waiting to hear from the school about the meeting they wer going to have...

Her Math teacher has been sending stuff home with her...Sudoku Puzzles and more worksheets.

Yesterday I got an email from her saying that DD has risen to the challenge of advanced material and she was sending home an enrichment packet for her to complete when she has time and she should bring it back when she is done.

DD did the first page quite quickly. It was a made up money system and a bunch of questions like...If something costs 3 poolas, but I only have have 2 gulpies, how many stoogies would I get back in change.

She LOVED it!She called me over to see and asked..."am I smart?" She was glowing with pride. I haven't seen this since she was a baby. I'm so happy for her. Maybe all she needs in a little enrichment to make public school work for her. Hey, a girl can hope, right?

Is is bad to say that I afraid all this logic enrichment and practice is going to make her so far ahead that regular school work will be even worse for her than it is now? As in, it will become even more senseless and boring? Ughh...can't I just be happy!? Still smiling.

wow. I'm going to be thinking about this all day. What was the powerpoint presentation about?
Actually I think I'm going to quote you. "walk up to them, look them in the eyes and speak from the heart".
Thank you. Any other words of wisdom appreciated.

This is where the observe - try something - give feedback to the school cycle comes in. It might be enough, it might make her more insistant that she wants real learning all day long - you just have to breath, try and observe. Good luck with the meeting!
Grinity

Oh No! My little one, just turned 6 has been fine in school. She has many 7 year olds in her class. I went to her open house the other day and the teacher told me that there was one other boy in the class that she put in her "reading group." He is 7. She told me that he is not reading at dd6's level, but it should work out. I did not expect her to be the ONLY kid at her level. She tested (DRA tesing) at the end of K with an independant comprehension of 2.0 and a higher decoding...I wasn't too impressed since my dd9 was way above her at that age. My dd6 also doesn't write or spell very well and isn't amazing a Math.
She is reading Diary Of A Whimpy Kid - fluently, with expression, and understanding...because she thinks it's funny, so she may have jumped a few levels since the end of K.

She has been so happy so far with school - i couldn't imagine a better fit. BUT! On the way to school today she started with this:
"MOMMY! MY morning work is soooo easy. It's like, ridiculously easy. It's like coloring in the right colors! I can't believe it! Isn't this suposed to be FIRST GRADE! I mean, I thought coloring was for pre-school and maybe Kindergarten, BUT FIRST GRADE?! I think I should be doing like Math stuff!"

She has been complaining a little for a few days, but this morning she seemed actually upset.

The teacher actually told me at the open house that she wasn't pushing for DD6 to finish her morning work because she is obviously beyond that. But DD6 is a hard worker. The children are given the oportunity to finish work during Silent Reading and DD always chooses to finish it rather than read. She colors beautifully and adds lots of detail to things, so it takes her a while to "do her best work" which is what they talk about in school everyday.

I told DD6 to tell her teacher that she would like to continue to do her best work, but it would be easier to do her best work if the work was a little harder.

We will see what comes of this. She is actually a kid who has it in her to advocate for herself. Maybe I can catch this one early and teach her early so we don't have the problems we are having with DD9.

On one hand you are so proud to have children who are so smart and creative, but when you find out that they aren't happy with school, the way it is, you feel so overwhelmed. I just didn't think I would have to go down this road with DD6.

I don't think I can handle TWO kids needing advocates! Thanks for listening.

You'll be fine! Two is easier than one in this area of life. And your DD seems like the kind of kid that teachers 'get' and 'like.'

Start your paper trail and set up a meeting with the Teacher. Great to teach your DD to respectfully self-advocate, but you can't place the whole responsibility on her shoulders....although it would be nice.

I wish I had a nickle for every younger sibling who catches her or his parents by suprise.

Smiles,
Grinity

I re-read my post, Grinity...How in the world did you figure that teachers 'get' and 'like' dd6...? Because you are soooo right. I don't know what it is, but they love her. (she is really cute :))

But yeah, they do seem to get her. I notice this because my dd9 has never had that conection with a teacher.

still don't see how 2 is easier than one...but having two kids was easier...they entertain eachother!

Boy, this baby girl is taking me by surprise!
Why do I feel so sad about this? I guess because it is such a lonely place to be.

So, babygirl asked teacher today..."Can I have something harder to work on?" Teacher some something like "Well, this is what is good for the class right now." My very brave babygirl said "Well, it is too easy for ME!" Teacher told her that it would have to do for now.

It was a coloring paper with directions in it. Color the first bear brown and so on.

I asked her how guided reading went today. She said "bad." That the book was for babies and her partner and she read every other page and she had to wait forever for him to finish his page.

He is the only one in her class reading near her level.

OMG! I can't believe this is happening.

I told her that I was happy that everything else she did in class was harder...She said. "nope. EVERYTHING is way too easy."

This is the first I am hearing of any of this. I think I will wait a week or so to email the teacher. She asked for harder work, lets see if the teacher provides it.

I knew that she could 'snow' the teachers because she 'snowed' her sweet mama. And you are obviously a sensitive and observant momma.

It's just that gifted kids have nothing to do all day except whatever they set their mind to, which very often is putting one over on their momma. We have to cook and clean and sometimes work outside the home and be a marriage partner and try to stay true to ourselves and parent. It is no secrete to your younger that you were too exhausted to accomplish much for older daughter - just as it's clear to her on a psychic level - that something has changed for you - now you have our support AND now you are more successful in fighting for older DD. So she is showing that part of her that she had previously decided to keep buried - the impatient and frustrated part.

Even though it seems like teachers 'get' her - that actually are 'getting' the version of her that she wants to project. Heck, she has seen older sister be 'the smart one' and knows what the downsides of not fitting in are or being what other people want your to be. But with the changes in you, she is able to trust the world enough to cut out all that extra emotional work, and just be who she is. Wait and see - the teachers won't like her nearly so much now that she is more authentic. ((shrugs)) That's just how life is, right? As she grows up, just like the rest of us, she'll be better able to be flexible about how much of her authentic self to share and when to show something else instead. But that takes lots and lots of practice.

Even if younger DD isn't interested in reading,writing or Math, she still has a gifted brain in her head (most likely very similar to her sister) and it is doing something up there - even if we never see it! It is usual for us adults to narrowly define smarts as 'academic smarts.'

So please don't wait until the end of the week to contact the teacher. Just a mild email like this:
"Um....I'm hearing some stories from my DD about school that seem unusual for her. What do you think is going on?"

And then there is the theory that all kids hold back and try to be flexible until their capacity is exceeded and then 'snap' they flip into just demanding what they want - but since all kids differ on what their actual learning needs are and how much capacity they have, the 'snap' happens at different ages.

Sounds to me like like your younger daughter just reached her breaking point.

Smiles,
Grinity

This reminds me of a sweet story from my childhood. All of us sibs were giant PIAs. Everything bothered and worried us. My mom's response was to say:
"It's finnnnnnnnnnne" in what sounded to her like a soothing voice.

One day it occured to use that this was a verbal cue that things actually weren't fine - it may have been part of a comedy routine we overheard - or just an insight one of us had - and we started teasing her about it.

That hotdog piece fell off my plate? "It's finnnnnnnnnnne Be quiet and eat it"
Even though we are at the beach and it's all sandy now? "It's finnnnnnnnnnne Be quiet and eat it."
Even though it roll into some dog poo? "It's finnnnnnnnnnne Be quiet and eat it."

We'd be rolling on that sand, laughing, turning red, trying to see how far we could go before she noticed that we were playing with her. We'd compete to see how many volleys of ""It's finnnnnnnnnnne" we could get in a row.

Yes, we were PITAs!

That story about your poor mother - that's so funny.

So funny how you sound like you know my children!

I guess I have always known that there was something very special about her...and others have told me time and time again..."there's just something special about that one." I refused to believe that she was going to go down the same road at dd9...Maybe she played along...like with Santa.

She has done things that have been really quite amazing. Like memorized the whole first chapter and more of the Jr. version of The Secret Garden...like 12 pages of so...long Chapter book - when she turned 5.

She is great at Legos and does 6-12 year old lego kits...but I have to check in with her and make sure she isn't making a big mistake that will make her have to start over.

Her vocabulary is sooo funny and she doesn't seem to be dumbing it down for anyone...like my older daughter did.

She has been making up words since she was...2? maybe...Wouldn't eat the chicken skin cause it was blobbery....and something else she described as russely.

Do you know the book "The Little Island?" By Mararet Wise Brown, I think. She cried at 2 or 3 when I read it to her. The island has all these seasons and adventures and at the end, it is just an island in the middle of the sea. She was so upset that the island was just left by itself.

She often talks about how things go over and over. like seasons..and mirrors and whatever...she is, and has always noticed the cycles in life.

She cries often at movies.

I think her gift is to fully understand literature. She makes these connections to literature that I find amazing. She is able to explain her thought process. Like when I read her the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (age 5) and she said...Aslan is dying so that Edmond doesn't have tot and the table is broken so not that stupid rule (about the witch being able to kill anyone who betrays Aslan) doens't exist anymore.

At 2 or 3, she asked me how the mall that we were in, wasn't falling down. She begs to watch "How It's Made" and has been building with things since like 6 months...EVERYTHING! Made me crazy. To keep her quiet at a breakfast place, we would give her the jellies...she made some pretty impressive stuff. To keep her quite at home, she played with the soup cans...building stuff with them...at 2 years old, she made a "thing" out of a lot of things and it wasn't a very stable thing...she said this....she exclaime...LOOK! I am the princess of cacophony!" (I don't even know how to spell that.!)"

So, yeah, I have been living in denial...but, I'm not going to panic...I will respond to her begging for harder work...but I'm not going to panic. She is my sweet baby. I think she knows that is what I want her to stay. So, maybe I'll have to start letting her know that it's okay to grow up a little, and she'll still be my sweet baby. She has said in the past.."Mommy, I'm not going to get married when I grow up. I'm going to stay here with you." Music to my ears...

But DD9 was reading real estate magazines at her age, with correct understanding and 'saying' the numbers in the hundreds of thousands. She knew when a house was expensive or not and was able to decide if a house was a good price or not worth the money.

DD6 now, can't really even do math in the teens. She can do it in her head, but her numbers are all backwards and I'm pretty sure she doesn't have that number concept that dd9 had...

Maybe it's because of her eye tracking problems or that dd9 went to Montessori Kindergarten, where they do a great job with that stuff.

I used to work with DD9, not so much DD6.

We shall see.

I showed my husband this thread...he says..."Well, she didn't 'snow' me!"

He is the one they get their 'smarts' from. He went to college at 14...

I wonder how many moms on here are just plain old, above average people, dealing with these amazing children, with no experience of their own to go on. I was NOT smart in school...until Highschool....graduated top 23rd in a class of 300. I wonder if it helps us to be more objective, or if it hinders us because we really don't understand.

I admire your dd for speaking up. In first grade I clearly remember those coloring type assignments and trying to do the most beautiful coloring job ever to at least try to make it interesting. I also remember one day just not doing the math work sheet because it was so freakin' boring and I knew that I didn't need the repetition. I thought maybe the teacher wouldn't notice. (Of course she did!) I was then mortified, but I never explained WHY I didn't do it.

I have to agree with Grinity on this one.

Yup - my son was like this - at that age he freaked out while we were trying to watch 'Fly away home' whenever the girl wanted to get into the small airplane because (who knows?) maybe he thought it was dangerous? (Of course I had fast forwarded through the car crash at the beginning in a different room.) What 2 year old does that?

And at 3 he would cry whenever we passed the apartment building where Daddy used to live before he met Mommy. Apparently the idea of Daddy without Mommy was too lonely for DS to bear.

I had no idea in the world that all kids weren't like this. At home. With their Mommies.

((shrugs))
It sounds like you are well on your way on the right path!
Grinity

So that puts you in the top 7.5% for kids who went to your high school - which could vary depending on if the brightest kids were already sorted out to the private school or if your community was above or below average economically...

But of the kids who scored higher than you - how many were taking classes less challenging than you and how many were taking classes more challenging than you? (or were weighted GPAs around back then?)

If you and your DH choose each other, and didn't 'have' to get married, than there is a pretty good chance that you married because you enjoyed each other's company, and got each others jokes. That suggests that your IQs are most likely similar if not 'quite similar.' Grades and SATs are generally fairly strongly correlated to IQ, but there are some folks that have strengths that aren't reflected that particular way.

Smiles,
Grinity

DD9 has been pulled out for science enrichment and has been loving the enrichment math she is getting in addition to the regular 4th grade math. She was given a pre-test on the unit of geometry they did this month. They were all given a pre-test. The teacher looks at the pre-tests and figures out what each child needs to work on and gives them the same exact test, a month later, as a post test. She shows the kids the pre-test and post test results at the same time. I guess to show them how much they learned.

Well, DD9 got one wrong on the pre-test...she got 3 wrong on the post test...She didn't do 2 of them cause...well, I guess she said she didn't see them...

Anyway. The teacher DID warn me that the bright students often do worse on the post test than the pre-test...

This doesn't make sense...right?

ps...the "enrichment" was 5 kids leaving math, all from her class of 19 to work with levers...she did like it though.

It makes sense to me. Your DD already knew the material (only missed one on the pre-test), and was tired of the material (it wasn't new enough to keep her interest) by the post-test.

The part that doesn't make sense is why they wouldn't give her something she actually did need to work on, once the pretest showed that she didn't need to work on any of the pretested stuff.

Finally got a call from the LA teacher. She and the Math teacher will see me before school. I'm feeling better because the LA teacher TOLD ME that dd9 was tested and scored 83 on her DRP which is a few points higher than on her State Test..She said she was reading and comprehending at a high school level.

So on with the meeting. We shall see. I am wide open to their suggestions.

Lately dd9 seems depressed. I don't know if it has to do with any of this, but hopefully we can get things fixed for her. Wish me luck...I hope I can survive this meeting!

Good luck!
Try to talk with DD9. It's ok to mention that you noticed X or Y, and ask her what she things is up. You many get something that you can share at the meeting that will get the teachers urgent about fixing the problem. School folks 'speak' social and emotional distress.

Smiles,
Grinity

It's so strange when you spend your whole life trying to get teachers to understand that your child is smarter than the average bear...

Then, they call to tell you that in no uncertain terms, your 9-year-old is reading at a high school (and beyond) level. This is not open for interpretation...she just is. It's kind of hard to swallow...even if you already knew. And by now, I have learned enough to know it is not an easy road. And somewhere I must have been hoping to be proved wrong. Because now I am kind of sad for her.

And we haven't even talked about Math yet...which...I suspect will have similar results if they ever test. Oh, geez.

No wonder she has been so distant and turned off and detatched...hmmmm...well, I can help her now that I can stop doubting stuff...:)

On the other hand, what are 'real average' high school kids doing with reading and Math. Probably nothing that would really impress you, even if your 9 year old was doing it. If you haven't already gotten an IQ test, WISC IV for example, then now is a really good time to ask for that.

It looks like you are having a hard time getting a fix on just how much of an Outlier she is, and the IQ test is your best hope of getting some real data on that - short of pulling her out and homeschooling her to see just how far she can go with proper materials....

Hugs
Grinity

I looked up the drp scores online..with percentiles...she got 83...that is in the top 96-99 percentile for 9th grade...I think the upper grades require a higher percentage of comprehension...so, If she took the test in 9th grade she would be cut off at a lower point. But it isn't by a lot. She is in forth grade. The percentiles weren't there for 4th, but for fifth, a score of 60 (something) - 70 (something) was in the top 96 to 99 percentile. I think it is pretty good..I would guess 99.9, since it doesn't even have her numbers up there for the grade above hers...I also read that if someone got every single answer right on the whole test...they COULD get a 99...so, she didn't top it out with an 83...but the 99 would be for college level...hmmm...this stuff confuses me.

I agree - very confusing.
Hope the meeting goes well!