Hello,
New here. My DS just completed testing and I have a quick question about DYS qualifications. He qualifies for achievement (Broad Math), and his VCI on the Wisc-IV is 140, 146 extended norms. Does the extended norm score count?
Thanks!

I'm just confused :), so can someone tell me if we meet DYS criteria and should apply? Also, what is his GAI?

WISC-IV
FSIQ 138, Extended Norms 141

VCI 140
VCI Extended Norms 146
Similarities 19
Vocabulary 17
Comprehension 14
(Information) 19
(Word Reasoning) 18

PRI 125
Block Design 17
Picture Concepts 10
Matrix Reasoning 15
(Picture Completion) 13

Working Memory 138
Digit Span 16
Letter-Number Sequencing 17
(Arithmetic) 19

Processing Speed 118
Coding 12
Symbol Search 14
(cancellation) 11

Woodcock-Johnson Achievement:
Broad Reading 134
Broad Written Language 142
Broad Math 190
Academic Skills 160
Academic Fluency 149
Academic Apllications 142

Thanks!

It seems like it might count. I hope it counts. I just don't know if it counts. I guess it boils down to whether the VCI extended norms score is a standard score.

I imagine that someone who knows more will chime in soon, but what I'd do is submit my DYS application, and in the next week or so ready as much portfolio information as possible, in case they ask for it; or just ask Davidson up front whether you will need to submit a portfolio.

ETA: It looks like you might be in luck! Check this out:

Pearson WISC-IV Technical Report #7, "WISC�IV Extended Norms"

From page 2:

The scores derived from the extended norms should be interpreted the same way as any other standard scores derived from the WISC�IV.

I'm not the expert on testing, or on DYS criteria. However, I'm pretty sure that extended norms are fine. Keep in mind, though, that the qualifying scores are a minimum standard, and they're going to look at the application as a whole. This is probably especially true where there are only a couple of scores that are DYS-level.

How old is your DS?

He was tested at 7 yrs 2 mo. He loves math, chess. He was also given the WJ test of cognitive abilities for some focus issues at school. Also the SCAT. SCAT Verbal was 439 (85%) and 476 math (>99). So he consistantly does well on the math stuff. The cognitive abilities also shows 99% Spatial relations. The tester thought of him as a mathy kid who would likely enjoy engineering type of stuff.
He is grade skipped one year and accelerated in math to 4th grade. So the exposure to the math would probably make his achievement highter I'm guessing?

Broad Reading 134
Letter-Word Identification 147
Passage Comprehension 115
Reading Fluency 137

Broad Written Language 142
Spelling 148
Writing Samples 130
Writing Fluency 133

Broad Math 190
Applied Problems 161
Calculation 193
Math Fluency 170


Would you recommend a portfolio, or just scores?

I agree on the Reading, it just isn't his passion at the moment. The tester said he got visibly excited when doing the math tests.

He's gone from a reading toddler with no interest in numbers, to a math obsessed kid, then Scrabble obsessed, chess obsessed...and I think someday when he finds some books that draw him in, a reading obsessed kid

Thanks for the help, I'll start working on the application.

I have a comment-y question. It would seem that just using the scores above, and assuming they've pretty much "captured the child", the achievement scores here indicate that rockpeaguac's ds is in a very good learning environment. Is that right? Is there a way to figure out what the average achievement is for a given GAI or PRI or VCI ? Am I out on a limb here?

Definitely apply. You can also include the SCAT scores if you want.

Just curious, what is his school situation and how did it all happen? It is just so rare that we see someone arrive here with a child who is in a good school situation right off the bat.

The tech report is very interesting and was great to show the a relationship between achievement and iq. I'm going to have to read the whole thing once the munchkins have gone to bed. Thanks!

Yes, definitely apply.
I know know if this is a coincidence, but my son, now age 14, with 'focus issues' scored his low spots on the same subests as your did.
Is the single skip plus more math working out at school? With my son's focus issues, (and personality) we found that he had rather less slack for a poor fit placement than some other kids I've met.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Catalana...we have been fortunate in some regards and worked pretty darn hard in others with his school situation. We saw signs of giftedness early on and many people made comments to us which prompted me to start researching. We live near William and Mary Univ, and have utilized their gifted center and camps. We first had him tested by them on a very abbreviated WPPSI and Woodcock Johnson (interestingly, he was 5, not interested in math at all, and scored in the 70% for the math section, 99% verbal). They suggested teaching him about money. So we did and his math went from non-existant to long division in the course of six months (mostly on his own).
My son attends a public school, that has a pretty high % gt population. He was frustrated and bored in K, and we successfully advocated for him to get more challenging reading and the teacher game him some 2nd/3rd grade math sheets. He was identified for the district pull-out, and through a conversation with his gt teacher there, she initiated talks with the principal. He was put into first grade classrooms for observation with four teachers and a "trial period" . Painful process, but it resulted in the schools first grade skip (I believe district's 2nd). This year he has a teacher with a master's in gifted ed and has handled the skip relatively well. It isn't all roses though. The school is very heavy on worksheets and low on creative projects. Like so many schools today, there is still a lot of pressure on teachers to focus on the state standards testing. We wanted a full evaluation to hopefully advocate for more project based learning and greater challenge. He is still underchallenged and even after the skip, walked in and scored highest in reading and math from day one. It is always a work in progress to get what these kids need, isn't it We been blessed with great teachers so far. Our psych recommended "side-stepping into other areas like statistics, physics, applied math etc...to let him broaden rather than just accelerate. She is going to write the report to suggest this as a way to let him go deeper next year when the class is covering material he already knows. We will also continue to enrich at home.

Grinity,
That is interesting. I may be talking with you! We do struggle some. We tested my son because of the focus issues. The tester felt confident that he does not have ADD (which was our concern based on teachers frustrations with him). He does fine if given challenging work, and falls apart on the mundane everyday tasks at home and at school.
He also learns at an incredible pace, so things can become boring pretty quick, and often before the teachers recognize it. Once this happens, the focus issues return and we are back in for a meeting. He likes being timed, so we've found a stop-watch to be our friend

Same here - the teachers thought DS had the 'worst case of ADHD ever.'
Same with our 2nd grade tester, Same with our 3rd grade tester. 4th grade tester saw ADD, but was kind of a jerk. Chart review by Private Gifted Specialist saw it in 6th grade. Psychologist saw it in 8th grade, when DS demanded to be evaluated and medicated. Really excellent Gifted Tester saw it 'for sure' last year.

I sat on the fence so long I got metaphorical splinters!

In addition to the medication, which DS reports feeling 'more like himself' on. ((Yuck!)) I've found this book to be the only really helpful parenting book ever: Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook: An Interactive Guide to The Nurtured Heart Approach [Perfect Paperback]
Lisa Bravo (Author), Howard Glasser
If you are inclined to read the same thing from a less practical perspecitive, I would recommend the more recent:
Notching Up the Nurtured Heart Approach - The New Inner Wealth Initiative for Educators - Perfect Paperback (Jan. 23, 2011) by Howard Glasser with Melissa Block, Chris Howell and Richard Diffenderfer

Thanks to the above books, this is no longer true at our house. We've really hothoused 'taking no for an answer,' 'walking away from a hot-button topic,' and 'finding something to enjoy.' DS14 is doing beautifully lately with those very challenging issues.

Peace,
Grinity

I'm grateful for the DYS, extended norms thread. Thank you to all who answered and to Rockpeaguac for asking!

Please excuse my questions. Although I'm not new to giftedness research, I previously didn't have to research IQ testing much because I didn't plan to have DS tested, at least till much later. We now feel we have a need to do it and have an appointment for this week and it's not something we're paying lots of money for so I'm not sure how much I can ask for from the psych.

My questions:

1. If DS8 hits ceilings on the WISC IV, will he automatically qualify for extended norms scoring or will I have to consult the psych again to score the extended norms? Can I consult another psych to score the extended norms since the first psych is doing it for us for cheaper and may not do more than just the standard Wisc? Or can I actually compute the extended norms on my own from the Tech Report?

2. DS doesn't usually do well in math for timed tests although math is his current all-consuming passion. Rock mentioned how her son is obsessed about one thing after another and my DS is the same. Yet he scored lowest in math for the Explore recently and I know it's due to running out of time. Given the number of questions he missed, he still exceeds the grade-related DYS minimum so I believe he must have answered correctly for most of the questions. But I'm a little nervous about the Wisc and I'd love to hear about others' testing experience, especially for kids who don't like to be timed.

Thank you!

Well, I'm hoping we got an accurate ruling on the ADD. We had him tested with a very reputable psych who specializes in gifted kiddos. I know that nothing is 100% though and we'll continue to see how it goes. My son certainly is the absent-minded professor type. I will look into the book you suggested as we certainly will need to work on this area, especially since he is younger than his classmates.