I have seen alertness at a very young age being mentioned numerously as the first sign of giftedness.

What�s your definition of alertness?

A baby who is alert will look around at interesting things (movement, sounds, etc.). A baby who is not seems like it is sleeping with it's eyes open.

That... and, well, DD screamed the first two days of her life and hardly slept at all. But maybe she just hated being in the hospital as much as I did.

There was a very clear difference between Mr W and other infants. At 4 months he would watch TV shows all the way through, play with toys, watch us intently, interact with others, recognized people, etc. And he was a preemie.

Other infants at twice his age appeared drugged even though they were normal.

People often commented that DD was unusually alert. I thought they were just trying to be nice.

I don't remember comments about DS's alertness.

I don't define it as being 'awake' but rather as being interested in their surroundings and interacting with people and their environment. Almost like you can see the wheels turning behind their eyes.

Both of my kids were super alert from the very beginning. They didn't miss a trick. I always had that feeling that someone was watching me constantly. My first slept very little... just cat naps through the day and up multiple times each night. I swear she was afraid to miss something by closing her eyes.

Not sure what the definition should be, but we were told from the being how impressed everyone was with DD's alertness. She was a C-section baby and helped deliver herself which freaked the doctor out. He had never experienced anything like that and being the head of the department he has delivered many infants. The nurses adored her because she was alert and active during the two days we were there. I remember laughing at one of the nurses who was gushing over DD and saying that you probably tell everyone that. She assured me they don't and my DD was different. Different how? I really didn't know.

DD was also a baby who never slept. She took cat naps and was up after 15 minutes ready to go. It was as if she was afraid she would miss out. At her 2 week check up the doctor was shocked at her self soothing abilities. When she laid her on the table DD was not happy about it but cooed herself out of the crying that was soon to follow.

We also noticed her attention span was lengthy and I have to consider this as part of alertness. She would recognize individuals and expect patterns such as when we visited my mom and grandmother. My grandmother would always reach out to hold her first but when DD was around 2 months my grandmother decided my mom should get the first cuddle time. This did not set well with DD and she became very upset. She looked confused by the whole experience. LOL

OH and during her first few weeks of her life she was consistently frowning. It really concerned me but I came to realize it was her way of focusing her eyes because she wanted to see everything. Once her eyes were fully functional her frowns went away.

I remember describing her as an old soul. There was just something in her eyes that looked like she knew things. This intensity that you could not escape ... if that makes sense.

Well, just recently I was watching home videos of my little girl. I am baby crazy right at the moment. DD is just so grown up now. I miss my baby. So, I can comment with some authority here.

As soon as DD came out she went from the nurses to daddy. I was out of it. I have a video of DH holding her and she just stared into DH's eyes. The poor thing had that gunk in her eyes, but she refused to close her eyes or look away.

I have a video from DD's birthday where she is lying in her isolette with her eyes WIDE open, rooting. She pulled the blanket into her mouth and chewed on it. Eyes wide open.

I have a video of my step-mom holding her when she was still in the hospital. She was very awkwardly holding her over her shoulder. DD literally propped her arms up on her shoulder and lifted her head all the way up. She was completely supporting her head. There was not even the slightest bob. She held it there for a good 30 seconds, looking at me.

(I am still quite confused on how floppy babies' heads are supposed to be.)

In the video of my sister holding DD for the first time, DD followed the camera 180 degrees, turning her head as far as she could each way.

I also have a video of her looking up at me while I am stroking her head and she smiles this huge grin. She was less than a week old. I did not count it as a smile because I was touching her, but still remarkable. She started really smiling by 3 weeks. Tons of videos of that.

A couple months after DD was born, my step brother's wife had a baby girl too. My whole family was making comparisons, bla bla bla. They came to the conclusion that because my neice was born via C-section she was not as alert. Huh?

There are no other babies in our families, but I have always been shocked by the sleepyness of other babies I see.

From about 4 months on (When DD could sit independantly) she looked like she was following conversations. She looked at who was talking, to the next person, and so on...

It is funny you mention other babies seeming to be drugged. That is exactly what I said. My second child lifted her head on the examination table and smiled at three weeks also. She was just "THERE."

Our son was alert from birth also. The nurse in the hospital commented on it, but it meant nothing to me at the time. We also have photos and videos of him holding his head up and looking around when other babies are just lying there.

As for the books, I read to him from the day we got him home and I am shocked to look back at photos and videos and see his interest in those first books. He wiggled and stared at the books, but again it did not mean much to me at the time. I remember being embarrassed when the pediatrician asked what his favorite toys were and I told her "books." He also flipped the books to the correct side to "read" them correctly left to right and front to back. I kept experimenting with him by giving him random books the wrong way and he always set them correctly.

He barely napped even as an infant, preferring to look around...in fact he got my husband to carry him around the house instead of napping. He was non-verbal, but refused to be propped, laid down in a crib, etc...he "relaxed" by those walks around the house instead of true naps. At soon after a year, he threw his pillow on the floor and jumped out of the crib onto the pillow...and that was the end of the crib and any further attempt at a formal nap.

I have so many more alert baby stories, but I have to repeat that I didn't think anything of it at the time. We were one of the categories of parents that were "shocked" at the gifted id. I am Ivy League educated with a doctorate, so I expected my son to be bright, but I was 39 when he was born and didn't know baby behavior so everything he did was normal to us. Really, I have to thank Ruf for her list: after I read it, I exclaimed to DH, "Did you know it wasn't typical for DS to do this, this, this, and this???" We were/are both comparatively clueless parents ha ha ha. Nan

Nan,

Love your post. Your experience was so much like ours. And I laughed out loud with your comments about reading Ruf's book because that was us. We were really clueless!

After reading this thread I went back to see some of DD's videos when she was a newborn. Oh man, now I want another one too. I have no clue how in the world I could handle it but she was so cute, sigh... (still is but it's a different kind of cute)

Anyways, after thinking about it some more, I do remember many people commenting about how serious she looked and MIL is convinced that she's a very old soul (she believes in reincarnation). When she was 2 weeks old we took her out for the first time and we had a number of people asking if she was more like 3 months old. She's always just had her eyes so wide open and looks like she's processing everything around her. Looking at her photos and videos I noticed that even before she was a month old we had pictures of her sitting on the couch (propped up) with a big old grin on her face looking right at the camera. I also have videos of her 3 months or younger looking through books.

My DD, when laying on my chest on her belly, would lift her head (just DAYS OLD) and turn it side to side and look around. I specifically remember having her on my bed as I did laundry and I walked across the room and she followed me with her eyes and her head. I thought... this can't be! Everything I read said they can only see inches away from them! I did it again, and same thing! I told the ped. about it and she said, "I believe it! she's consistently showing signs of being very intelligent!"

She RARELY slept. I remember wondering what was wrong with this baby who all the books said would sleep so much and would be sleeping more than being awake at such a young age. Not my kid! SHEESH! Even now, almost 9 years later, she STILL doesn't need the amount of sleep most kids her age do. She tells us she can't turn off her mind to go to sleep! Her daddy is the same way .

I've only read the last two posts but my kids were the same way. Even my 35weeker was constantly being mistaken for being many months older b/c of how alert he was. My middle one, was crying immediately after he was born. The nurse brought him over to me and I said "Don't cry, mommy's here." He shut up dry, turned his head, and looked right at me. It really was freaky. Same with my third. My first sleep not very much and gave up naps early. My middle was a more typical sleeper. And my third was like my first as far as sleeping. My youngest was also early (36weekder as was my 2nd baby) and she had to be in NICU under the lights for jaundice. THe nurses kept complaining that she wouldn't stay still. They kept finding her in the corner of the basinette. I later figured out it was b/c she was overheating w/ the lights and was moving away from them into a corner. They tried everything to keep her in the middle by surrounding her w/ rolled up blankets but she'd always "escape." I don't know of any of that is atypical but those were mine and others observations.

Well thinking back, I wonder if my DS7 understood TV when he watched as an infant. My other DS is 3 and still doesn't watch TV, I am thinking maybe he doesn't get it LOL

I think this is normal because they recognize your voice while in the womb. They also say songs played or sung to them while you are pregnant make a lasting impression. I tried this when I was pregnant with "In the Jungle" and it really worked. Okay ... it was actually my version of the song with our oldest dog 'Barley' instead of 'Lion' and 'Katelyn' instead of 'Baby'. When she would have complete meltdowns and nothing else was working; all I had to do was start singing "In the Jungle" and she would instantly stop crying just to listen. Even at 3 yrs old she could be off in another room and playing and if I start singing that song she comes running and squeals that that is her song. Her's and her Barley's. Really cute.

Thanks for the story of the 'escape'. It jogged my memory about DD. When she was only a week or 2 old she too was discovered in some interesting places. One time I awoke to find her with her legs dangling out of the crib! That freaked me out, especially since we had one of those stabilizers for her to sleep on. I didn't have the crib bumpers because I had read about possible suffocation issues, but after that scene I ran and got one. I figured if she is able to scoot around like that we had no issue with her strength.

DS's eyes would follow your every move. It "freaked" us all out. He smiled, and I got "that's just gas"... but it wasn't. I swear! Either that or his gas had perfect timing!!! I never had to hold his head as a newborn. Ever. I always thought that was weird. It might've been reflexes, but I swear, he loved, at a week old, to "stand" on my legs. I have pictures of him holding his head up almost fully before he was 3 weeks old. And he rolled over from front to back at 4 weeks, back to front before 6 weeks. To me, that is both freaky and alert!

Of course, I didn't realize that it could be freaky or mean alert until DD was born 22 months later. She slept all the time, rarely focused on us. She was "floppy" (sorry Grinity - :)) She hated tummy time and didn't roll over until she was 4 months old. She doesn't by any means have "just" average intelligence, but she is definitely not showing signs of being AS gifted/bright as her big brother. Of course, she is the less intense/laid back child, so really maybe the alert/non alert infant just means what kind of personality the child will have.

DD4 seemed drugged after experiencing how DS6 was as an infant!
Of course, I also think she didn't cook long enough. Both kids were c-section babies, hers being "planned" due to how his took place. And planned ones are always "early".

HMMMM....

My c-section was kind of planned, but probably not like what you mean. DD was not dropping and my ob/gyn argued something was blocking her from dropping. He offered to induce but argued that he would probably have to do a c-section anyway so I agreed to the c-section which was 2 days before she was due. Really glad I listened to him because her cord was wrapped around her shoulders, restricting her. I was shocked at the size of it, too. She was definitely getting all the needed nutrients from it. LOL

I don't know if I'm supposed to say this or if it sounds crude but I co-slept and night nursed and I always wandered how my newborn could find his "bottle" in the dark and move there and latch onto the right spot without any fumbling at all. I was told because babies can smell the milk?
I assumed he was gifted as soon as I saw him because of his strong presence, but I thought the alertness was due to a healthy pregnancy and a natural waterbirth. But that's not why I guess if Katelyn was an alert C-section. I tripped out over that story of her helping with her own C-section. I can totally believe that, but i want to hear the details. Newborns are so much more interactive than everybody else described them to me.

P.S. Off-topic but my #2 is due in just seven weeks. Lovely to be reading the baby storiess here right now.

My first one wasn't an emergency per se... DS6 never dropped either, and I was IN labor for hours and hours... he was fine, just didn't want to come out. I, on the other hand, was exhausted.

But the 2nd time, they took me 5-7 days before my actual due date, which I think was a little early to begin with anyway! DD slept for the entire first day after she was born. She wouldn't eat at all. Thankfully, she did on day #2.

Awe, congrats La Texican! Do you know if you will be having a girl or a boy?

I think everyone in the room tripped out when seeing that. She lifted her head out of the womb and made it easy for the doctor to pull her out. I'm sure he is still talking about it. LOL

But we had signs before she was born that looking back now just made sense, but during the time really freaked us out! I would crash hard at night and while I was asleep my DH would play with DD, but one night I woke up to this play time. He was thumping music on my belly. 2 beats, 3 beats, back to 2 beats, etc. and then he would pause and she would repeat it back to him. At first I just laid there thinking I must be dreaming, but he did it again and she matched his beats. This was when I sat up and freaked out. "Did you feel that?!? OMG she is copying you!" DH: "Yeah, she has been doing that for weeks." ME: "Why didn't you tell me?" DH: "Because it was Daddy and Katelyn time." I guess if I never woke up he would never have shared that information with me.

Also he was tapping on my belly one night trying to get her to play and she had clearly been asleep. She became outraged by such an act and definitely let him know. My whole body shook as she started kicking and punching. I don't think that is normal.

Why would that be crude? Actually, most babies can find their mama's nipples and latch on all on their own, within an hour of birth.

Thanks K-mom. I don't know yet. The midwife still hasn't sent me for my last sonogram. I kind of hope he doesn't because it's another $250 each time. That's such a cute Da-Da & baby story. Omg. But you must be a real good sleeper for him to do it and you not notice.

Ooh, you said the "N" word in mixed company. �You're much braver than I. �Poppa Rex, lucounu, and Sylwester are at least three men I've noticed who gather here. �No, other people Let me know his strength and co-ordination and mobility were unusual. �Guess I would have known if I thought about it- I have seen other babies. �I already knew that you could lay any newborn on a mamma's belly and they would maneuver and scootch until they reached the nipple. �I had already read all about it. �What they didn't tell me was a co-sleeping newborn could find his way across the bed and latch on the target in the dark consistently without fumbling or groping around for it. �An old lady told me they do it by smell.
That really doesn't have to do with infant alertness I guess. �You know how most babies are kind of lazy-eyed and are content in their swing or playpen in their own little world until they need something or you coochie-coo them. �And how when they try to study something like their own fingers they stay cross-eyed longer,�and when they respond it's kind of in exaggerated slightly off-balance gestures. �It's cute. It's babyish.
Well alert infants always want to be where the action is. �They watch adults conversations and follow the conversation from one speaker to the next. �They control their movements voluntarily almost always. �That's why old women say a baby who was born alert "never was a baby."
Does it relate at all to giftedness, or is it an evolutionary survival trait gene left over from some pre-historic nonmad era?

LOL! After I breastfed in front of my dad, DH's dad, DH's brother, my (male) boss, and every male stranger who happened to look my way, using the word "nipple" on an internet bulletin board definitely doesn't phase me. It isn't even gender-specific! Or maybe I just have no shame.

Nipple, nipple, nipple. There, I said it, too! No shame in in at all.

I, too, had a baby that helped with her own C-section. She was oblique and breech and 'jumped' (that was the OB's word) out. Her legs sprung out and she sat right up into her hands. I'll have to take her word for it I guess. She was born at 32 wks and was a super alert baby right from the beginning. Super cranky, as well!

I work with newborns and can say with assurance that there are some that just seem to be more 'with it' than others.

I've got an 8yo DYS, and an almost-4-week-old ds ... it's odd to be doing the baby thing again!

With my 8yo, people commented all the time -- what an alert baby! Like others, I thought they were just being nice! Looking back, he was very picky from the start -- preferring me and ex-h from day 1, *very* high needs (needed hours of walking to settle, easily overstimulated).

With my baby, it's more an awareness in his eyes. He's not as picky as his big brother (yet!), but he's been reaching for toys for two weeks already (!) and just seems very aware of where he is and what he's doing. His first picture is ridiculous -- he looks like he's several months old, looking right at the camera. It's crazy.

Seriously? I've only got the one, and have never been around babies much, but mine was not happy for a moment unless she was physically attached to someone. She was the easiest baby in the world until you put her down, and then she was the shriekiest banshee baby in the world.

I've heard people talk about babies that would sit / lie contentedly by themselves, but I've always thought of them as extreme outliers, not the norm.

I'm really not a deep sleeper but when I was pregnant I would bypass the normal sleep pattern and fall into a deep sleep.

Another funny story to share: after having DD I guess the sleepless nights were getting to me. (I was breastfeeding.) And one night I fell into one of those deep sleeps. DD woke DH up and was in a full meltdown because she was hungry but he couldn't wake me up. He shook me and yelled at me but I never woke up. I believe he even threaten to divorce me if I didn't get up and help him. Nice, huh? LOL ... he should have kept that one to himself. The funny part is who woke me up. Not the panicked husband or the screaming baby, but my dog. He jumped up and put his front paws on my chest and started pouncing on me! The dog weighs 95 lbs! So I stirred and opened my eyes to a complete zoo.

But I swear I am not a deep sleeper in normal circumstances.

First, hi, Mia! Good to e-see you, and congratulations on the birth. Yay, you! May you sleep through the night ASAP!

Second, I think personality has a lot to do with how content a baby is to sit and look around. DS9 was a *really* easy baby, and he has developed into a very laidback kid. He was alert from an early age and held his head up early, but he didn't need constant stimulation. He's an introvert and a deep thinker (not a speed demon), so he was quite happy even as a baby to study something complex for long periods of time. His focus and patience, as well as his ability to reason, were the things that persuaded me that he was HG+ before he was 1yo. Even as an infant, he slept well, ate well, and was generally just very, very easy to care for.

Yes, I know I was lucky. Actually, even at the time I realized that he was probably not an average kid, and DH and I debated a long time about whether to have a second child because I *knew* that I was spoiled and I worried that I wouldn't be able to manage a "real" baby.

DS6 was not quite that easy, and he's definitely more sensitive than DS9. But he was still a pretty laidback baby--with spikes of intensity--and he's still that way now. He's fine and happy...right up until the second that he isn't anymore.

Basically for both of them, I just had to make sure they had good, complex stuff to see and touch and study. If they had really good toys--toys that were fun for me to play with, but were safe for babies--then they were happy without me sometimes.

Both of them are DYS kids now, so laidback HG+ babies do exist, even if they're rare.

MIA!!!

Hi Kriston and Neato!

We breastfeed and co-sleep, so we all sleep through the night for the most part. Makes life waaay easier. God bless co-sleeping!

Also, the baby didn't look so alert today, sleeping through his first Gymboree class! Punk.

Yeah! So did we and it does make life so much easier. Instead of waking up and getting out of bed, just roll over from one side to the other! Nan

Amen to that! There is NO WAY I'd be able to keep up with DD with out doing that...

My mother was in the delivery room and the first thing she said to me after I gave birth is "That baby is weird. She is watching the nurses." And yes, I could see her eyes tracking the nurses, and even maybe a little bit of head turn. But she was my first, so it seemed normal to me. The second one did it too.

I always wondered what people meant when they said my son was 'so bright', meaning alert. To me, he just looked normal. As someone else said, it's not him who was 'normal', it's all the other babies who to me looked drugged. I'm still not sure that my son is gifted (he's 22 months and we have no way to test until he's much older), but if alertness is a sign of giftedness, then my son definitely had the alertness from birth. I can't wait to find out if I'm just overthinking or if he really will test in the higher end of the scale.

DS20mo lifted up his head when he was 2 weeks old. He would laugh whenever he saw my mom at less than 1 month old, and my family thought it was weird he could laugh socially at such a young age.

I am not sure these are considered "alertness" or not.

Well now I have two babies to compare what "infant alertness" means to me. �My dd, to me, is kind of floppy. �I was thinking it was because she's so long, over 21". �But she's not really floppy. �Everyone seems surprised that at two weeks she's lifting her head to look around. �(she always could). �I keep getting comments on how strong she is. �I have to support her head in the in-between times. �I never had to hold ds' head. �I put her on her belly at a few days old. �It was hard for her to lift her head from there. �She couldn't push up on her arms, only her bottom. �Ds pushed up on all fours and easily lifted his head. �I would've known that was unusual if I thought about it, but I was to busy enjoying my baby to think about it. �My MIL pointed out how strange it was, is the only reason I thought to take a picture of him.
She does cross her eyes sometimes. She looks surprised if her hand crosses her line of sight. �She pulls her hair and cries about it, pulling harder, not knowing it's her own hand pulling her own hair. �Ds just already knew his own body better than that from the day he was born.
The first few days ds was more fascinated and interacting with the environment and the people around him. �He would turn and look directly at whoever was talking to him, curious, since just minutes after he was born. �She's more cat-like. �She'll hold eye contact for a little while whenever it suits her. �She's more fascinated in exploring her own body. �In the first few days she did a lot of rapid blinking and isolating and wriggling various body parts. �I guess it's what everybody's describing as sensory seeking. �She's aware of us. �She communicates. �She was two days old when she looked me in the eye and started clenching/unclenching her fist and wriggling her tongue as either sign language or charades for "I'm hungry". �But she's more on her own little trip and ds wanted to be where the action is and engage the people around him as a newborn. �And ds would scootch across the bed, up to a foot and a half away, as a newborn to nurse. �The girl makes sucking sounds, if that doesn't work she cries. �("if at first you don't succeed cry and cry again"). �
To me my pretty princess is just a little more delicate. �That's all the new stuff I had to add.

Interesting comments Texican.

DW and I were wondering last night what DS- will be like.

DW is almost at 7 months and DS- is WAY more active than Mr W was. And if you tap on DW's belly or push it near her, she will kick back!!

FWIW, DD did the same as an infant and still pulls her hair when stressed. She's always done this as a self-soothing technique (no clue why that's at all soothing!).

Embarrassing, but I still bite my finger when I am stressed.

Congratulations to all the new moms and dads and parents-to-be!

There are many worse habits than that. Don't feel too bad.

My two were like your two, almost exactly how you described!

Do that differences have something to do with boy vs girl?

I hope it's ok I answer this one. I would say no.

with dd now 7 a couple of hours after she was born, when I was settled in my room , DH and I were just in giggles about how aware she was. She was tracking both of our movements to the point it was just hysterical. I had DD laying facing me and was trying to move the blanket out of the way so my DH could take a picture and she was eye balling my hands in the picture.lol

I agree with Skylersmommy. Our DD was very alert from birth and if you accept Dr. Ruf's LOG this implies HG+ no matter the gender.

DD was also very alert from birth. She spent the first two days of her life screaming. We have no clue if she's HG (or even gifted at this point since she's too young to test) but she was definitely alert.

I definitely chalk her alertness up to personality, though. She has NEVER had a problem speaking her mind or letting us know what she wants!

I don't know if it's because she's a girl. I think it's more probably because I was in slightly better shape the first time and was pickier about diet and exercise.
She's half a month old now and has held herself in a sitting position using the strength of her back and her arms as she pulled my hair. She was wobbly, but held it. I'm thinking she's at least a week behind her brother, but the hubby pointed out she was one week late being born, my son was two weeks late. I don't know if that extra time might help their development..?
She still needs her head supported when she's not actively doing something. LoL @ the speaking your mind. I said the first day, "wow, she's good at crying". Maybe the part where she's in her own little world until she wants your attention means she'll be less (of a pest?, needy?, demanding? How's the nice way to call a great kid who needs to engage someone 24/7?)

I wish I remember how alert my daughter was at birth (she's almost 12 now). I had a really terrible labor and was pretty out of it for awhile after that. But I do know that we couldn't cosleep with her - she pinwheeled, scooted, and kicked us in the face from the very beginning. When I broke out of my fog (after the first couple of weeks), it was noticeable how strong she was and everybody commented on her alertness.

My son was a natural birth at home so I remember everything. He's always been very alert and managed to support his own weight very early. He could hold up his head for about 15-30 seconds or so at birth. I remember we tried to get him to calm down right after he was born so he could nurse - he was screaming so much. The only thing that calmed him down was reading him Green Eggs and Ham (which we read to him in the womb). He has always been VERY high needs and has never slept the amount they tell you to expect.

He smiled at 5 days, laughed at 2 weeks, supported his weight on his legs at about 1.5 weeks and "walked" up his daddy's chest with help for balance. We got a lot of comments about how "aware" he seemed and how he seemed to be studying people.

Here's pictures of him at 6 days old:
Here's one of him smiling at my daughter
Here's my favorite one from that set. My daughter was calling him off camera to the right.

your kids are SO cute!!! He does look very alert.
Smiles,
Grinity

adhoc.

ADORABLE! You made me go back through my pics and what strikes me as funny now is how I just assumed this was normal.

Below is a link to an album I set up from DD's first few weeks. She was a very active, alert baby with strong neck muscles.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/katelynsmom/sets/72157625037616881/

Thank you Grinity and Katelyn'sMom.

Katelyn'sMom - your DD is beautiful. That set of photos really show that she was thinking so much at such an early age. And based on what you've mentioned about her in other posts, you have a ball of fire on your hands.

Thanks adhoc. So funny that I just posted those pictures. I went to pick DD up from school and one of the teachers had to go on and on about her eyes. When she was born I never thought that baby would turn into a blue eyed, golden hair little girl. Her eyes were almost black at birth. But it seems her eyes are a topic of conversation a lot at school. The teacher's comment was that it is as if you can look into her brain. LOL She might have meant soul. Either way I get what she was referring to ... DD is definitely a thinker and she has an intensity in her eyes.

I love baby pics! They are adorable babies!

before dd7 I had never seen another baby with the eye tracking thing that early (at least until now )

I want to share too!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54865046@N04/5081892717/in/photostream/

Katelyn'sM om my dd also gets the comment about the intensity in her eyes as well, she always looks so serious, even when she's not

Oh my goodness, Skylersmommy - she's so beautiful. Such huge eyes. Are her eyes still that big at 7?

You definitely see an intensity right away - it looks in the pictures like she had much better vision than you would expect for that age.

Aww - now I want another baby. But mine is still keeping us way too busy. I don't think we could handle another one of him.

I love all the sharing of the baby pictures. First, how can you resist such cute babies! And second, it is nice to see other babies with such alertness.

adhoc, thank you

her eyes are big and intense.. that stands out even now

Some pics of DS5 at the hospital:

http://photos.smugmug.com/MG2453/42097404_S7SwT-M.jpg
http://photos.smugmug.com/IMG2366a/28970910_SG8bu-M.jpg

OMG adorable, it's amazing how he is looking right at you! I cannot tell you how much I just love seeing these pictures

Lucono - your son is so precious in those photos.

I'm really enjoying seeing all of these too. Perhaps there should be a picture thread.

We wish we had more pics of Mr W when he was an "infant" - it lasted maybe 8 weeks.

He was born 5 weeks early and smiled at us on day 5. We thought that was normal. Until we ran into kids his age and saw otherwise.

Here he is at 3.5 mos. He would cry until we propped him up. He is watching TV and watching me taking his pic. Note the toy in the background.

http://mrwmrw.smugmug.com/Children/3mos/am3/1048440854_SkiUn-L.jpg

At 4.5 mos. He liked to stand in the car so he could look around. He would cry until we stood him up then he took it from there, either holding on or leaning on stuff.

http://mrwmrw.smugmug.com/Children/3mos/4mos/1048448943_66PtS-O.jpg

At 11 mos.

http://mrwmrw.smugmug.com/Children/3mos/11mos/1048449062_YviDM-M.jpg

These pictures are great! Thanks for posting them, everyone. Mine are on an old disk somewhere....

My daughter got angry (really angry) in the delivery room when they tried to stretch her out to measure her. It was obvious even to me in the fog of just having given birth. They also failed; she wouldn't allow it, and we found out when she was sleeping that they were 2" off.

She never had that lack of visual focus that young babies have. She could focus from day 1.

People kept telling me that my eldest was "such an awake baby!!" after he was born. I was a new parent and had no idea what they were talking about. My mother said it when he was 5 weeks old, and that's when I finally found out that "awake baby" meant "alert" rather than "not sleeping."

I also didn't get all that "quiet alert" stuff that the baby books went on about. I mean, if he was awake, he was alert, and well, DS just didn't do quiet <sigh>.

Yeah, those were the times when I thought about how swell it would be to have a quiet, relaxed baby...just for an hour or so, you know?

Val

Austin - Mr. W is adorable. I love that 11-month picture. My Boo is almost 11 months now, I should post a new picture of him now. We usually use video instead since he moves so much, so we don't have a lot of still pictures of him.

Val - I know what you mean about dreaming of that quiet, relaxed baby for just an hour or so. My daughter actually was that way, but my son is making up for her being easy-going. I just wish he'd give me one night straight through - a solid 8 hours of sleep.

Now I want to post even more pics. I have some great 3 month shots I was looking through last night. Looking back it amazes me just how interactive she was at that age but when in the middle of it I never thought her abnormal.

Austin: it really is shocking that he was a preemie. You can tell he has such life in those eyes. Isn't your wife due for number 2 here soon?

As for the quiet alert. I guess DD fits into that category. She didn't sleep ... EVER but she could entertain herself. She had such an attention span from an early age. She did need lots of attention but she never was the type to scream about it and get really fussy. She always coaxed people to play with her through her smiles and gestures and even talking. I would call that a more quiet approach, but maybe I'm misunderstanding the definition.

When they talk about the quiet alert stage in the books, it's that their eyes are open, but they are relatively calm. They say this is the most receptive time to interact with a newborn.

My son has never been relatively calm. He didn't really scream or cry to get attention - more that he yelled at you - specifcally targeted one individual and grunted loudly at them until they paid attention to him. Now he screeches while smiling at you. He has a lot of words but he doesn't like to use them. He would just rather screech. He only speaks in actual words when he gets upset and he can't get what he wants quickly enough. If we're in the car and we can't stop, it's usually "I wan mama boooooo!!!" (I want mama's boob).

Too Funny! The local la leched leauge ladies warned me about this - I'm glad they did!

Oh yeah - We've had a lot of fun telling people that his second word was "boob." Luckily, our families have a good sense of humor.

I've been looking at the adorable baby photos but i've been too busy to post mine. I showed the hubby all the cute babies and told him how old they were now (the ones that i knew about) and he was oohing and ahhing over them.
Here is ds pushing up at a few days old. He would rock up like he was a couple months old. Dh was out of town for a week when ds was born and I took the pictures because he didn't believe what his mother was telling him our son was doing. He would also push up and roll over from his belly to his back by two days old. (who fussed at me for saying that? someone told me babies turn over, dogs roll over.)
http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad296/Hablame_today/119f9512.jpg
ds a couple days old, just finished the boobie (also a favorite word)
http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad296/Hablame_today/1cc4ac0d.jpg
dd on day 1. Her eyes had a hard time adjusting. She blinked a lot for the first few days. She would also look around the room with her eyes closed, you could see her eyes moving like they were scanning the room from behind the lid. She took a little longer adjusting to the outside. She had a rougher landing (delivery).
http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad296/Hablame_today/092010036.jpg
She's adjusted. She's fine now.
http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad296/Hablame_today/092010049.jpg

You have beautiful children, La Texican. Your son was so strong as a baby. Is that him in the third picture holding your daughter - he looks like such a proud big brother now.

I need to dig out pictures of my daughter from when she was a baby now. She was such a happy baby - she hardly ever stopped smiling. And she started posing for the camera from about 3 months old, if I remember correctly. Somehow, she figured out we were taking pictures of her. In those few times that she was ever upset, she would be screaming like crazy, and we would pull out the camera. She would stop look at the camera, give a huge smile and wait for it to click. Once we were done taking photos, she would start screaming at us again.

We figured this out because we wanted to take a picture to prove to people that she could actually get upset. Nobody ever believed us. We never did get a picture of her being upset.

Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't talking about alertness between boys vs girls.

I was talking about muscle tones. I was wondering if boy has better muscle tones than girls as La Texican has experienced.

Muscle tone is part of that 'alertness' everyone refers to: The strong neck muscles is a prime example. Pushing up from an early age, etc. All relate to muscle tone and my DD was one of those babies. So alert or muscle tone it doesn't tie to gender. (Of course I could be wrong! But nothing in any of the books I read mentioned a noticed difference between boys and girls.)

I think my diet was better, I rested more, I weighed less and excersized more with my first pregnancy. �I think that had more to do with it than their genders. �

Another possibility is that my son takes more from my gene pool and my daughter takes from her dad. �She has his hazel eyes; he has my brown. �And my genes are sturdier, stockier stock than his. �Hate to think that might be why he picked me. �:) cave-man

One thing I can see soon is if early alertness, the earliest milestones, indicate faster long term advanced development. �It's not a real study because it's just my two kids. �And it's not a real study because I don't keep good records. �It will just provide me with an intuitive opinion years after i've forgotten the details.
She'll be a month old on the 27th. �She's already intentionally pulled my hair and tried to pull my hair more and missed a few times. �The first thing Wyatt pulled and kept trying to pulling was his grandmothers gold hoop earrings when she came to visit just after he was a month old. �So they're just different, different kids. �

All these pictures make me want to have another one...

sorry my bad, I misunderstood

Hellobaby ain't that the truth. I think we're done with the two we got, but now I'm getting sentimental about that decision. Watching the way a newborn stretches and excercises her little limbs and the cuddles she makes on my shoulder makes me want to change my mind.

Ha! I'm the complete opposite. I love seeing the pictures but all this talk about infant alertness just makes me tired. It doesn't have that I have way too much toddler alertness going on at the moment...

Well, if we're sharing pictures ... I *love* pictures!

My ds8 got a lot of "What an alert baby" comments ... I think it was the eyes that did it. This is ds8 at about 2.5 months old:

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b...w&current=Giraffe20closeup2010-2.jpg

And at about 10.5 months -- he's not supposed to be playing with those cords and he knows it!

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/wooingjuliet/?action=view&current=BenandTV105mo.jpg

And my almost-4-month-old ... we haven't gotten as many comments, but we don't get out much. However, I think his newborn pics show a pretty alert kid. This one was taken when he was about 2 minutes old:

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/wooingjuliet/?action=view&current=IMG_52761.jpg

And this one is at 2 months:

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/wooingjuliet/?action=view&current=DSCN0900-1.jpg

Obviously, though, the jury is still out on if ds-4-months is gifted!

Of course, there was the day he read "1984" ...

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/wooingjuliet/?action=view&current=DSCN0933-1.jpg

Sorry, couldn't help it!

Awww .. Mia. Very cute family you have there. I love the last picture.

I love baby pictures! These are the cutest babies ever...the eyes ARE very telling...it's amazing seeing that in all these pictures

almost makes me want another, almost

Adorable Mia!

Right at delivery my son looked at me as if to say "what is going on" He was very alert. From day one when he was awake his eyes were wide open and looking around. He never had that sleepy baby look. He seemed to interact with people (for example with strangers when we went shopping) with his eyes. People commented that he seemed to be flirting at a couple of months old in his baby carrier. I could never ignore him - he always seemed to want to be engaged and learning something. In contrast other babies the same age seemed unaware of their surroundings.

The "womb raider" was born a few days ago at 36 weeks. She had an apgar of 10 and was alert and looking around within minutes. She is looking at me as I type this.

Congratulations! Tell her we said "Hi, precious little baby". Tell Mr. W congratulations for being a big brother. Wow. Congrats.

Thanks!

Yes she does. She also squeaks. She is more alert (holds her head up ) than he was although she has yet to smile at us like he did.

Mr W has been a great big brother.

Congrats again on the new baby girl! Life doesn't get any better than this. Mine were the opposite. My boy was born holding his head up. He never was a baby. The girl had a rough landing. She was all floppy and cross-eyed. He looked right at whoever was talking from day one. She's more chatty and much sooner. People are guessing she'll outpace the boy. I said well, girls usually do. They're just different. The girl's frequently copying the same number of syllables trying to talk or sing. I remember you said yours would tapp out the same number of syllables from inside the belly.

CONGRATULATIONS!

Welcome to Austins little girl! Yippee!

What about fetus alertness?

I swear this baby in my womb does not sleep at all. She moves 24/7. We did a 3D/4D sonogram yesterday, and her eyes were wide open. She was even rolling her eyes, which the sonogram tech told me she has never seen it before on a sonogram. The tech commented about the baby �must be a genius.�

We have a fairly calm 2yo, so I am afraid what�s coming.

My friend's dd was like that. After not sleeping in utero, she continued to not sleep until she was 4-5 yo.
I don't know if not sleeping correlates with genius or just hyperactivity, but either way, she has been both exhausting and delightfully unique. ;-P

A health care professional who had never met me before and knew nothing about me, my husband or our child examined DS at four days old and then turned to me and said, "this one will be clever, he's already taking everything in."

I'm a bit worried about DD because so many people told us she'd "been here before" and we got frequent comments about her alertness and interest in the world... I think she was more alert than DS so we might be in trouble there!

I have a midwife friend who insists she can tell gifted kids from 'average' kids in their first weeks of life - among those she's managed to keep track of she hasn't been wrong yet.

Neither of mine were particularly restful in-utero either... and both had very clear music preferences from before birth, although I never knew if they liked or disliked the music they moved the most for, lol!

When I emailed my boss a picture of my son at 10 days old, he emailed back that he'd never seen a baby look so alert. DS was looking right into the camera with a look that said, "What is that and what are you doing?" DS was my first, so until that point, I hadn't thought anything of it.

I also had a lactation consultant tell me really early on that DS was going to be bright based on his terrible sleeping habits.

Gifted children are supposedly more alert as infants. So it could be true- however, it could also be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If a parent believes their child will be gifted, for whatever, they may interact differently with them.

I would personally take with a grain of salt the comments on giftedness by people who work with children in an unrelated capacity. Is every bright-eyed child gifted?

I'm guessing that a child could be very alert but not gifted, or at least not ultra-bright. (FWIW I have two children who were both very alert after delivery, one now speech-delayed with giftedness unknown.) We see testing results from people's children here who have fast processing speed and good memory, but lower scores in other areas relative to what I think of as a more typical highly gifted pattern (which often includes low processing speed etc.). Is it a stretch to think that some similar fast-processing kids might be wired quite right in some ways, be extra alert at or before birth, and still not be extraordinary in terms of deep rational thought later on?

I also question the weight that is sometimes given to early physical or other milestones. Very bright children sometimes have slow physical development, and others have apparently slow early verbal development. This leads to the easy conclusion that observations of early alertness or other development are not necessary for a person to be gifted. But are those observations necessarily sufficient, even for a supposed expert, to draw a conclusion of giftedness?

I'm not aware of any rigorous research in this area. Someone who works with children often may seem to have authority in this area, when they have absolutely none. And though I think alertness might be some evidence that a child will possibly turn out to be at least somewhat gifted, a correlation is not proof of anything in a particular case. I don't believe for a moment that random child health care professionals, lactaction consultants, etc. can accurately determine giftedness at such a young age, when even testing at later ages by gifted-specialist psychologists may be prone to error.

However, I do believe in confirmation bias, insufficient sample sizes, etc. I also think that in our current IQ-obsessed culture, a person may make positive, meaningless noises about a child's seeming brightness as a way of complimenting the parents. I give this about as much weight as hearing that a person has a "bouncing baby boy" or similar statements.

(Honestly, I always enjoy learning about each child's unique story, including interesting development information and especially when it involves cute pictures. I've just been ruminating over some of these ideas for a while.)

I agree completely with lucounu.

The Womb Raider was far more alert than Mr W when she was born and continues to study the world deeply and has said her first word, but Mr W's early milestones in comparison are far beyond hers.

His innate drive and attention span is far higher than hers at the same age. This may change as she notices details and things in the way he did, but we do not see the almost daily leaps in her that he made. And she is far less exhausting.

Oh you guys - the baby pictures are distractingly adorable! I could spend all day looking at those cuties.

locounu, I don't care what you say, I'm hanging on to the reason for my current sleep deprived state being because they are bright. Just like I hang on to the idea that massive toddler tantrum will lead to teens who are peer pressure reistant. Don't rob me of my delusion yet, please.

Geomamma: Yeah, eh???

But on the other hand... I was looking at the Womb stories thread too, and I'm currently gestating, so ya know...

We don't know if either of our kids will turn out to be gifted or not, we just know that both parents are, and that the one kid who'se actually been born is being severely underestimated by his grandfather, who has raised at least one PG kid in his time (and two who are at least G, but I don't know details).

I don't even know if DS#2 will be alert as an infant, but DS#1 most certainly was.

What I *do* know is that the two of them are night-and-day different. So much so that it's blatantly EVIDENT at 20 wks gestation. And that siblings are generally not hugely different in terms of intelligence. And that second kids are typically more laid back than firsts.

So right now I'm having a hard time counting on the old wives' tales about active, sleepless, alert babies. I've been known to wonder, though if delayed childbearing could possibly trigger some kind of k/r selection bias where a late first kid demands more intensive parenting on the grounds that it's clear mom ain't gonna have 19 more. If intellegent parents typically delay childbearing for educational and career reasons, and typically have intellegent kids... welll......

Just a thought, with no real basis.

-Mich.

I have such clear memories of people trying to tell me "the more they sleep they more they sleep, just get that child to nap more and they will sleep better at night". Um, NO! Our middle child (who has actually tested higher than #1 so far) did sleep better at night with more day sleep than #1 or #3, and she was just generally easier to get to sleep. But she has no sensory issues or other issues and she still slept about 2-3 hrs less per 24hrs than my friend's kids.

I have this fantastic photo of my DS at about 7 months at a mother's group outing to the zoo. The children on each side of him are six weeks each side of his birthdya, and are lying back, chilled in there prams. My DS, on the other hand is sitting bolt upright, laughing with his whole face alive. Everyone who knows my Ds who sees it comments that it just captures his personality so much

My Gt denial was based with my older one on that the reason she spoke so well and was ahead was because she did not sleep and thus had more time to learn... Coupled with learning ASL first I had no idea she was gifted! I did not even know there was such a term. In some ways being in denial is more comfortable.

When my DS10 was a infant I read whole Doctor Suess books, like Fish out of WAter, to him and he loved it. I thought it was very strange when my DD infant wasn't as interested in books. Then I found out that was normal for an infant.

Commenting is bringing back a cute memory. I would give my infant daughter a choice of a few board books (and DH would roll his eyes) but, when she touche a book I would just say "good choice". I loved that fun.

Have fun new Mommies. Write everything down so you can go back to it later.

Too funny! I have an 11-day-old who has great head control, is a real social smile, and has been reaching out to touch things since birth.

I am wondering where you all have been reading about traits of gifted babies. Is there a good online article somewhere?

hypatia

There are lotsd of debate about all of these, but as an exhausted mother with fairly intense babies, I get some comfort that I am not alone here:

http://giftedkids.about.com/od/younggiftedchildren/qt/infant_signs.htm
http://giftedkids.about.com/od/younggiftedchildren/qt/infants.htm

I have the BEST picture of my mom reading to my 2 month old son. He is so fully and completely engrossed in the story. I wish I could attach it here! (He's 4 now) Happy memories!

DS3 rolled over from tummy to back before he was 3 mo old, and I thought that was normal. DD2mo can bear weight on legs since she was 1 mo old, and I thought that is normal as well.

LOL, I think our norms are a little off.

Nice thread to bump.

When DW's water was broken, the nurse noted a green color to it which indicated DD had ingested and defecated placental fluids, and all that fluid would have to be cleaned out of her sinuses and lungs before she was allowed to take her first breath, to prevent a potentially lethal lung infection. Therefore, DW was instructed to stop pushing once DD's head was projecting outward, allow DD's nose and lungs to be vacuumed, and then proceed with the delivery once instructed.

Apparently, DD did not appreciate the treatment she was getting, and she popped her own shoulder out, and started pushing with her free hand against DW's body. The delivery staff was freaked to say the least. DW was injured in the process.

The vacuuming continued against her cries, so she was in a pretty miserable state when they finally wrapped her up and placed her in my arms. I started rocking her and said her name. She immediately stopped crying, locked eyes with me, and tracked my relative motion with her eyes... all things the baby development book we'd been reading said she could not do.

Later that day in the hospital room, DD started fussing in her bassinet while DW was taking a nap. I took DD out and laid her on my chest, belly down. She picked up her head, looked around until she located DW, stared for a minute, then settled back down to take a nap. Again, the book said she couldn't do that. We promptly threw away the book.

Within the first couple months, we tried out one of those Baby Einstein videos. It had a bunch of 15-30 second clips of random nothing, and the kid hated it. But put on a show for pre-schoolers, and she'd watch the entire 20 minutes.

Around 3 months, we could no longer dress her without her approval. If we selected an outfit she didn't like, she'd wriggle and squirm while we tried to dress her. We had to hold her up to her closet and let her pick out her own outfits. Likewise, when we went shopping we'd have to hold up anything we were considering, and she'd either seize it (buy) or shove it aside (don't waste your money). She'd make her own choices apart from things we brought her, too, because she'd start leaning out of the cart and reaching out towards something she liked.

At four months we took her to a photography session. Her mom had put her in this dress, and she was sitting up for the photos, fidgeting with her dress. DW kept coming back to DD, putting the dress back to rights, and finally admonished her to stop playing with the dress. Just before the photographer snapped the photo, DD grabbed the bottom of her dress, flipped it up high, and grinned a huge grin. This photo is priceless.

And on, and on...

I love this thread! I'm reminiscing because DD turns 1 at the end of this month. I can't believe I almost have a one year old. *sniff*

I don't know if DD is gifted, but we've had so many of the things mentioned in this thread. Very alert at birth (in-laws called her "the owl") Social smile at 3 weeks, sitting completely alone at 4 months and turning the pages of books and spending 30 minutes at a time concentrating on taking a part this one stacking toy.

By 5-7 months (when she started crawling, then cruising) she was looking at books independently and turning pages the best she could. I remember that when she was three months everyone was constantly shocked that she wasn't a small 6 month old. When she was 4 months we went to her check up and were told she was one of the most advanced 4 month olds they'd ever seen.

She is just about running now (first step at 8 months) and has around 10 words (but doesn't talk much... enjoys babbling using da sound occasionally) and maybe around 15 signs. Her signs just started taking off the other week actually. One day she barely signed and the next she suddenly started signing almost everything in the Signing Time DVD that she loves.

She wants to feed herself with a spoon, tries to brush her own teeth and wants to help dress herself. She has this sock she carries over to me and she makes me put it on her foot over and over again so she can watch the process and figure out how to get it off again. She wants books read a lot over and over, too.

She is playing with her shape sorter (not very accurately, though) and has started doing things like climbing a toy to reach something higher and sneaking behind daddy to grab his controller after he lets her know he doesn't want to see her touching it. From what we can tell she has reached most of the average milestones up to 18 months.

Babyhood went way.too.fast. Seriously. I feel like I had a baby for 3 months. Part of me likes her quick independence, but a part of me is pretty sad. She is still nursing, though, so I'm glad we still have that.

LOL.

Mr W was only an infant for 4 months - and after being born premature to boot.

He is 3y10m now and spends hours learning "big words" - ie capture, embarass, cacophony, and playing the SET game.

One day he is a little boy and the next he is a little man. And sometimes tells us he wishes he could just be a little boy. He has recently asked about death and told us he never wants us to leave him.

The hardest part for me when I was a bit older than him was realizing how powerless I was and how much I needed my parents and how fragile they and life were. It was terrifying. This may be the hardest part of being precocious.

And its hard to watch him realize this, too, so young. There is nothing I can do to shield him from these emotions or his mind in grasping reality.

When he was about 2 months old, several people mentioned to me that my son (now 2 yrs) didn't have a baby's face but looked like an old man. We've called him "little man" almost since birth. He refers to himself as Mr.(his name) when playing. I was recently looking back at his baby pictures, and alert is definitely one of the ways I'd describe him.