Hi, I am wondering if I post my SB 5 raw and scaled scores if Dottie you or anyone else is willing or able to tell me if the tester did it right or if there is a possibility of a higher score. (I have never been a member of a board like this so if I am breaking etiquette please tell me!) My DD acts like a gifted child but her scores did not allow me to access any school resources... (THey have a done a bit now for middle school, but it still is very limited) We did manage to find a charter school that listened to us and accepted her mid year on an academic need basis. She was put into a 4/5th grade class but they ability grouped so she went into a 6th grade math class and a 7th I think vocabulary/spelling book. She completed algbebra in 6th grade having only one other child in her class and having to share the pre-algebra teacher. She did very little studying at home... She's fast, her memory is awesome. For example before she had an IPOD she learned all the songs with the raps and everything from a few, literally like 3, trips to the mall and listening to the songs while we shopped. The school had actually said she could skip 5th grade but advised heavily against it due to the socialization stuff... Looking back it would have been a good move at the time. All her friends test in the 99% for IQ...yet in her class she is the top student and its not because she works for it..... The class was over half gifted and the recent state testing had that class at over 75% of the class at advanced profeciency in all areas. It was such a gift to find the class and it was just a cohort that was going through the school at the time. She did outdo there curriculum and I am not sure she was ever really that challeneged or consistently challenged. The tester really did not give me much information so I am just wondering if there is a possibility that she made a mistake? Thank you so much!
Our son's SB5 scoring would not have qualified him for our school's gifted program... it was less that 130. Thankfully, he did significantly better with the WISC-IV, and the higher numbers were bolstered by his achievement testing (and others). Some kids just do better on one vs. the other.
There are a few good threads here about SB5 vs WISC-IV... perhaps you might consider the WISC-IV for your daughter?
Hi thanks... Yes I am thinking of doing the WISC with her. Just the money thing is an issue. She got into a charter school that we are going to give a try and see how it goes.
Thanks Dottie - See how I can do this ..
Non Verbal Domain
Raw SCaled
FR Routing 24 11
KN 18 10
QR 19 10
VS 20 12
WM 24 15
Verbal Domain
FR 25 19
KN routing 42 15
QR 19 14
VS 23 15
WM 18 9
Again thank-you for checking this out! Ohh she was 9 yrs 9 months and 13 days old when she took the test.
Hi,
It is really difficult to say whether the numbers that you are getting back are really an accurate reflection or not. I dont know, what others think, but I do feel that the SB 5 probably in general underscores compares to WISC especially for more verbal kids. That is not to say it happens in every case, because there are definitely posters on this board who have had children do better on SB 5 than WISC 4, but I think it is more true than not.
To give you some perspective on your dd's test scores, I think Dr Ruf who only tests using SB 5, argues that the cut off for gifted programs using the SB 5 should be 120.
As Dottie rightly says, your dd could have had a bad test day, the tester may not have been the best etc. And I think those are things to bare in mind. Dont presume the numbers are entirely accurate, it is an IQ test and they have their own failings. What you see with your child and her needs is the most accurate score.
Purely anecdotally, I do have friends whose children pulled in 120s / mid 130s on SB 5 and their children are two to three to four years above themselves in maths. I dont have any friends with a nine year old in that score doing Alegbra I but definitely I have seen one hitting 6th grade. I do have a few friends whose children are 10 and are in Alegbra I and II. Maths though, I am not so sure is really a reliable indicator, as it is a circular subject, so you can get in the right environment big leaps in grades, if a child is great at remembering maths facts etc. To compare, the kids that I know that are pulling in mid 140s into 150s on SB 5, are different again and move through maths as well as other subjects material more rapidly.
Anyway, like Dandy says, maybe it is worth retesting using WISC?
If though your dd's needs are met at the new Charter School, I would agree with Dottie and forget any more IQ tests and instead look to do SATs or similar tests in the future.
HTH!
I posted here for the first time not too long ago with similar concerns, and after Dottie and others offered their help and experiences I felt better about other factors (achievement tests, child's accomplishments, teacher observations, etc.) actually guiding my son's educational experience... however, I thought you might be interested in reading some of the articles I originally found on the SB 5 and how it can score certain children lower. If you're like me you might've already googled the heck out of it as soon as you got the score and have already seen these, but maybe there is something of interest for you in them!
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Gifted+and+highly+gifted+students:+how+do+they+score+on+the+SB5%3F-a0150850213
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm http://www.assess.nelson.com/pdf/sb5-asb3.pdf http://books.google.com/books?id=Hb...CC4Q6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q&f=falsehttp://www.gifteddevelopment.com/PDF_files/testing.pdf http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/PDF_files/assess.pdfSorry there are so many -- I know some of them are really long and wordy, but if you scroll down sometimes you'll find comparison tables on them. Hope you find some of them helpful.
Thanks so much for those links 3xmama - I've been looking for that exact kind of information for a month. I'd found some on your list, but those last two gave me everything I need.
Much appreciated!
Thank-you everyone for your responses. I have been a bit slow on the uptake as my husband was gone and then came back and ended up in the emergency room and emergency surgery yesterday. I haven't had the time to digest everything written here so far. Thank-you Dottie for all your wonderful input. You gave us so much more info than the tester did. She did give us a fluid reasoning sscore of 129. Tomorrow we are going to a vision therapist for my DD. An appointment we made months ago as there is only one here and he knows nothing about gifted stuff... GDC had recommended after a consultation with them earlier. They never asked for the raw scores and it was not until reading here that I learned that there were such things as raw etc. scores.... Again thank-you. I am sorry it has taken a little bit to thank-you.
I have read many of those articles that you recommeneded 3xmama. I am also glad to hear of "real" people and not just people on comparison tables with some similar experiences.
My biggest concern with the charter school at this moment, it changes daily... My daughter will be taking Geometry and will be in a 9th or 10 th grade class. She's twelve, tall and beautiful. I don't know how well I am going to take 16 year olds calling or..... if its not one thing its another....
I can only say from my personal experience since I haven't studied both tests carefully. DS7 scored nearly identical on the SB5 as on the WISC. However, with GAI on the WISC and extended norms, I think we have a more accurate picture of the type of student that he is in school. He is extremely verbal (which was rewarded on the WISC) but petrified of timed testing (rewarded on the SB5). He is very logical and thoughtful (rewarded on the SB5) and full of random information (rewarded on the WISC).
I will say that his scores on the SB5 did not *quite* qualify him for DYS but his scores on the WISC using GAI put him comfortably in the range.
This sounds vaguely familiar but can anyone repost what comprises this GAI-like SBV score that G3 is referring to?
Here's G3's quote (not sure how to do the quotes for just a portion of a post): "There is a GAI-like SB5 score that can be calculated and it seems like that would be a fairer comparison."
Thanks!
Hijacking flower's thread- my apologies but I hope it's useful to you as well!
G3- his FSIQ on the SB5 and the WISC only have a 3 pt difference. But his GAI puts him 10 pts higher. Our tester refused to use extended norms for the WISC for him- by her definition you must have a 19 on two tests in the same section, not just on any two or more subtests- not just an 18 or 19 on any two subtests. It's kind of complicated :-) She also won't do any extended norms on the SB5 because she believes them to be totally invalid and not normed across enough students.
DS7 totally rocked the working memory portions of the WISC but is petrified of timed tests and bombed block design, primarily because of the stopwatch. He saw her start it and said "what's that? why are you timing me? what are you doing? why is that out?" and couldn't be reassured to get going. He also had trouble with coding for similar reasons.
I've seen the SB5 calculations where you can look at separate subtest scores for certain indications and they are interesting if nothing else!
As for the kind of student he is- he's extremely witty, logical, verbal and sarcastic. The kind of student that teachers either love or hate. We happen to have a teacher who totally adores him, sense of humor and all. He is grade skipped and still at 99th percentile in standardized testing and is just hungry for more... but only at school. At home? He's a video game, leave me alone and let me watch TV kind of kid.
I also really dont understand extended norms, especially if one of the articles linked in this thread, says that the highest score that was received when they normed the SB 5 was 148. Where is the validity for extended norm testing? I also am skeptical of extended norm testing on both SB 5 and the WISC IV.
I think all of these tests get fuzzy at some point, IQ testing isnt an exact science. I do think, that the 160 ceiling isnt valid, yet I have no solutions. I agree with G3 that doesnt seem quite right to compare a SB 5 FSIQ with a GAI score from the WISC IV. Then again a SB 5 FSIQ score and a WISC IV FSIQ dont necessarily neatly line up too.
I do have a child that scored in the 150s for FSIQ on the SB 5. I dont know, whether that is underscore or an overestimate? At the end of the day, I have not really worried too much about that score, and instead have relied and advocated based on the achievement testing that dc did, as it seems in many ways more valid, especially as it was normed two years older than my dc was at the time and my dc hit many ceilings.
I guess going back to the original poster Flower, and I do hope all is well with you. Sounds like you have had a busy time! I think, you can only advocate with the child that you have infront of you and the needs that you see. I know families with children hitting in the 120s on the SB 5 and their children have been successfully accelerated.
Thank you as well for starting this thread.
BTW G3 what is blokus?! LOL!
Hi everyone, its really fun to see where everyone has taken this thread I think they are called... My husband is better but still under the weather with increasing pain again..... So I am just grabbing a quick moment because I also have a dd20months that needs tending.
Again thank-you Dottie, do you want how the numbers were added to get the Fluid Reasoning score? Would that help fill in any blanks.. I don't have them in front of me at this moment but would be happy to give them to you if you need them. You asked about three dimensional stuff, geometry etc. and thinking that might be a bit difficult for her by her IQ score numbers. I am curious why you ask that? Is that related to NV and also her spatial score was 120 or something... Maybe I have to look that up to be more precise in what I am saying....but it was one of her higher scores.
I am curious also that her quanatative reasoning was like one of her lowest scores. It seems with her math that should be a higher score. Wouldn't a kid who does more advance math score higher there?
Sometimes I really want to get her tested on the WISC just to have her verbal abilities have a cahance to shine. It has been an awful process for her because she was soooo bored in school etc. and then not to be able to receive services based on the testing.... and then to see that all her friends were going to be able to receive services but not her its just been hard. There is this side of me that wants to get her the higher scores so she can have it.... but its a risk because she may not score higher.... and the last thing she needs is another test that she "fails" because she doesn't get the score...We of course told her all the "right" things one is suppose to say before the test but she knew what it meant....more boredom..more isolation etc. almost like punishment...anyways I better go and I am wandering all over her...
Thank-you again Dottie. Hubby is doing much better, phew.... You did mention the SAT and we are looking into that slowly. Thanks everyone for this thread and input! I have another thread to start under 2E as she was prescribed process glasses and I do not know anythign about them.