Revisiting the topic of above-level assessment with update and additional questions. :-)

A gifted-experienced psychologist suggested to me last spring that DD might take the state assessments for 3rd grade in 2nd to look into proper instruction level.

I'm thinking ahead to her fall needs, if not earlier. DD's getting some above-grade math extension this year and it's going decently (her teacher is pretty creative with math), but DD's not really getting deep ELA extension (they offer some differentiation at below-meeting-above levels), despite reading 2-3 years above grade-level, and that's now sent literacy to the bottom of her list at school (math is now favorite, a huge positive swing, but reading is below all other subjects, because she's tired of reading pages that have a few two sentence paragraphs that have no detail to find things she already knows, like the main idea). I'm assuming we'll need some scores or another to see where she needs different instruction.

So now, the regular state timed testing is coming up, but it is not done at her grade level. I still don't know, should I ask about her joining the 3rd graders for that?

Or might it be better to ask for the MAP 2-5 test? They offer that in fall and spring to grades 4-5. Is that a test you can take any time -- so she could just take it this winter to see how she compares to above-grade level?

Is there something better we might request? Either way, I feel like 'that parent' when I ask for this stuff, so I want to go in with solid info to support her needs (needing challenge), as the school will just continue to use classroom cluster differentiation.

What tests do your state use? Ours does the Smarter Balanced assessments but I have to say, the results they give you are basically useless. DD scored the highest possible scores given to 3rd graders but all you get out of the whole thing is a number. I don't know what it was, but basically the results say something like: YOUR SCORE: 999; YOUR LEVEL: ABOVE GRADE LEVEL. You won't get any useful information out of something like that.

Is your school on board, or are you trying to find a way to get them on board?

If the school's on board, they should be able to figure out her instructional level in math and ELA with formative assessments linked to their curriculum.

The most useful group test we've had independent of the school was the SCAT that DD took through the Johns Hopkins CTY talent search, which was an above-level achievement test. In 2nd grade, it gave her information on where she stood compared to 4th graders. But the results were still really just a bird's eye view. Like, "Math: 92% compared to 4th graders." You could clearly see she was above the 2nd grade levels, but wouldn't be able to figure out what to teach her based on these results. (Cost: about $100)

The most fine-grained independent individual assessments I've ever gotten were reading and math assessments from the local Sylvan Learning Center. I took DS there primarily for the purpose of getting this information while I was trying to get him grade-skipped. Their entire business is built on knowing what exactly each kid needs to learn, and they did. (Cost: about $150)

They use the Iowa Assessments (formerly ITBS) for the timed normed test in 3rd on up. MAP is used in 4th-5th in fall/spring. That's it.

The school is not really on board. They wouldn't accept my sending in outside materials for extension or sending her up a grade for math this year, so it's really teacher dependent what she gets -- no GIEP or way to measure the growth, much less where she's at. I will have to push the school for what little we can get for her in 3rd grade (a lot of new teachers), and since they don't do testing for her this year, they just offer differentiation based on teacher observation. They don't do pre-testing or year-end testing.

DD fell into a trap last year where she was told to not work ahead, and she was very frustrated, bored, and she's still not totally past that. She is now working ahead in class (or on the rare occasion she does online practice) and doesn't realize it because the teacher is on board, but at home, if we're just doing random stuff, she sees that she's supposed to learn something in 3rd grade or later (because of her brother), she won't even touch it because she's not "supposed" to do that yet. "I won't learn that til next year." I don't want to end up back where we were a year ago, so I need some accepted way to make sure she's being challenged and placed properly.

Are you located in the Midwest? Have you heard of the NUMATS program offered by Northwestern University. They provide EXPLORE testing for kids from grade 3 to 6, I believe. You can check it out through the below link. Not sure if you'll have time to register the test for this year though.

http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu/program/numats

DD is only in 2nd, though, so that is not an option quite yet (not sure what will be offered for out-of-level when she's at that grade, since EXPLORE is ending this year -- I think it'll be Aspire in our area). I'm guessing that perhaps MAP is not really broad enough as a stand-alone, but maybe the Iowa Assessment one year ahead will paint a picture and MAP can enhance that. I'm also guessing the school will just say "we think her needs will be met in the classroom and we'll evaluate further in 3rd grade."

Second graders can take the SCAT, mentioned by a PP. My kids took it in second grade for the Johns Hopkins talent search, but their scores also proved useful in advocating for math acceleration at school. This was in part because in addition to having the comparison with students two grade levels above, our school had SCAT scores for a decent number of other elementary students (they are automatically sent to the child's school unless you opt out), so the school could compare against those, too. It's true that the SCAT is a very specific type of test but the fact that it provides an above-grade-level comparison can be very helpful in advocacy, especially if your school won't administer an above-grade-level test.

For anyone looking at EXPLORE, the deadline for late registration is Jan. 20 (next Wednesday). I am so disappointed that I didn't think about DS being eligible for this test until today, since being a day late is costing us $25, assuming we decide to go ahead with it.

Has anyone's child taken it? I'm curious as to what the experience was like and if you think it was worth it. In our case, we are hoping to move and his grades are not perhaps going to be enough to accelerate in a new school (so I'm thinking recent above-level evidence might be helpful). I'm also a little anxious since the testing center is in the school that created an absolutely horrible first grade year for him. Hoping that won't cause too much anxiety.

My DD11 took both SCAT and EXPLORE in 2nd and 4th grade respectively. SCAT confirmed that she is HG and EXPLORE was to see if she would qualify for DYS. We had some reservation because she skipped kinder. She did not mind taking those 3-4 hrs tests. It did help our advocacy to her old school and also made us aware that whatever the old school was doing may not be enough and we decided to move to a school district with more pro Gifted attitude.

With our experience, one year above level test does not move a needle (in most schools) but at least 2 yrs above grade level tests (such as SCAT or EXPLORE) do. And they are relatively cheap and since they are nation wide standardized testing, they can't argue that we made up the score.

Thank you for this perspective. It's the standard, nationwide nature of the tests that makes us consider it. Do you know how far above grade level they are tested? (ex. does the fourth grade one only go up to sixth grade material)

Also, does anyone know what happens or how to register if there is single-subject acceleration? DS is in fourth for half of the tested areas, sixth for the others.

Below is what states on the Northwestern NUMATS page about EXPLORE. Hope this helps.

EXPLORE

NUMATS utilizes the EXPLORE test, developed by ACT for students in grade 8, to determine the abilities of students in grades 3 through 6. EXPLORE includes subtests in English, math, reading and science. Registered students arrive to assigned test center at 8:00 am. The test takes between 3–3½ hours to complete.

Which state are you from?

Texas has K-12 testing centers that you can take the test and move up. But you will face nightmare with taking 4th grade LA and 6th grade Math in public school crossing between elementary and middle schools. It gets easier in MS if they offer HS classes. Even in the same State, some school districts are rigid and won't accomodate. So, please check with your district.

Thank you. I've been scanning websites but had not come across that yet. Oh boy. DS will not be thrilled about spending his Sat. morning that way. ;-)

We are in Iowa. He's in a private school, so I'm not as worried about the crossover (it goes through GR8 and they start bussing some kids to the affiliated HS for math in MS).

Completely familiar with rigidity, unfortunately, from other experiences.

My DS7 is in first grade. Originally I was going to see if he could take the test to see where he is at in terms of grade level, before he took the WISC-V test. I was told that the test takes more than 3 hours long. I backed off :-)

I don't blame you! I think this might cost me lunch out with him if we want him to be cheerful about it. Going to have to frame it so he isn't balky about it. We need to make sure we have new "evidence" in the event of a hoped-for relocation, since he goes to a school with a very stringent grading scale (92 and below is a B) and his grades are a bit all over the place. I'm also very curious about what he's actually learned and where he still may have some gaps.

I would register for the grade the child is registered for in school. My DS is going to take it, but I registered him as grade 4 because he's only had a few weeks as a 5th grader and is in the trial period, not yet officially in 5th. Makes it kind of tricky, doesn't it. But the test is the same (8th grade level) no matter what grade you are taking it; and we should get to see how the scores compare to kids from various grades.

Thank you! I was confused about that -- makes sense now that I know it's all the same test. Age-based grade should do the trick.

I just want to add some data (factual information) to avoid parents being scared off. Many of these tests are not as onerous as you may assume. My kids have taken SCAT, Explore and SAT. Explore and SAT are not talent search dependent, meaning that you take the same test regardless of which talent search or lack thereof and you can be sitting in the same testing center with people signed up through different talent searches.

Explore is exactly 2 hours long and 100% multiple choice. There are 4 sections of 30 minutes each. You are supposed to have only one break, which shouldn't be more than 5 to 10 minutes long. The preliminaries (handling out materials, instructions) may take another 10 minutes or so. It is possible that some people arrive an hour early and hang around afterwards but it is not necessary. My kids were in the building only about 2 1/2 hours total each time they took the Explore. They were 8 years old (3rd grade) the first time and did not have any trouble. To put it in perspective, state testing for 3rd graders was as long and required actual writing.

Even the SAT is not that bad. The actual test is exactly 3 hours and 45 minutes long (including the 25 minutes experimental section). However, there are three 5 minute breaks and the preliminaries can take another 15-30 minutes so the actual "sit down" time is more like 4 1/4 to 4 1/2 hours. Because the administration can be huge with hundreds of test takers at one location who will need to be herded to the right location, you should plan to add another 30 minutes before start time. We did not try to go early so DS was at the school, including waiting in line outside the building for about 4 1/2 to 4 3/4 hours.

The SCAT is unlikely to be stressful. It is less than 1 hours of testing with an optional 5 minute break between the two sections. It is all on the computer and completely multiple choice. DS completed the whole test in less than 30 minutes.

The Explore is meant for entering 8th graders as the norms are for Fall 8th grade. The SCAT has several levels so the material can be 2 years or 3 years above level depending on your grade. The SCAT is interesting because it can measure either ability or achievement. In the math sections, the questions can be answered based on number sense and logic without actually solving the problems, which would measure ability. However, a kid who has gone through the math curriculum can also easily apply learned algorithms to solve the problems, which would measure achievement.

My point is not to be intimidated by these tests and present them to your kids as more than what they are. Kids need to know that the tests are likely to have some hard questions but that it is also no big deal regardless of how they perform.

Thank you so very much! This eases my concerns. We're now just deciding whether to have him go to the local site (which has the perhaps considerable disadvantage of being the place he was punished for being years ahead of the material covered) or one that's an hour drive away, but somewhere he enjoys visiting (for its great restaurants, lol). We'll likely let him pick once we figure out how to tell him "why" he's taking it.

My ds took the EXPLORE in 3rd grade at a local private school for gifted kids. There were only 3 3rd grade kids there and they had their own room. They made them feel very much at ease. The proctor told them they were very brave and she was very proud of them for taking the test. She explained how it was separate from school and there is no real grade. She explained everything to them.

She also showed them another room full of bigger kids and said they are taking the same test as you, instead of you are taking the same test they are.

DS took the act last year in 6th grade and it was like being in a penitentiary.

That sounds like a nice experience!

It might be worth noting that I believe the EXPLORE was technically discontinued a couple years ago. I've heard the talent searches that use it are also discontinuing this year. It seems like this will make it harder to measure year-over-year growth, if you ever want to do that. I'm thinking of having DD repeat the SCAT this year since it's been 2 years since she took it the first time, just to make sure she'd keeping up with herself.

My understanding is that EXPLORE will be replaced next fall (winter 2017?) with iExplore. I was hoping our school would be a pilot site for that, but it doesn't seem they will. What's the difference between the SCAT and EXPLORE?

We're less concerned about year-over-year growth and more concerned with having some measure of where he is currently "at" academically.

DS seems completely unfazed by the notion of returning to old school for taking the test. He also seems fine with taking it! He did ask if he could just take the SAT next year (fifth grade) "to get it out of the way." lol. Seems he read about it in a book or magazine, as we've never mentioned it to him. Just had him try the sample questions for EXPLORE and he's doing well.

He's not used to using a calculator and was pretty excited to hear that he could do so. I mentioned that he might want to do the work first and use that to check his work.... since he was able to do the first few pages in his head.